The Crimson Rite class feature of the blood hunter includes this paragraph (emphasis mine):
As a bonus action, you imbue a single weapon with the elemental energy of a known rite until your next short or long rest. While active, attacks from this weapon deal an additional 1d4 rite damage of the chosen elemental type. Rite damage is considered magical. The rite damage die changes as you gain blood hunter levels, as shown in the crimson rite damage die column of the blood hunter table. Should your weapon leave your grip, the rite fades immediately. An active rite on a weapon thrown fades directly after the attack is complete.
My parsing of this means that as long as the blood hunter is actually holding the weapon, it is actively imbued. IF the blood hunter sheathes or releases the weapon for any reason, it is no longer imbued.
Is that correct? I find the language above slightly confusing as it seems to say both that the weapon is imbued until the next rest (period) but then says it's only imbued as long as it's actually within the blood hunter's "grip" (which strongly suggests that once it's sheathed or put down, it's no longer imbued).
Both ending conditions are true, and the Crimson Rite ends as soon as one of them occurs. If you hold onto your weapon throughout the next short or long rest, the imbuement fades, and if you sheathe or drop the weapon, the imbuement fades.
Poor wording and design; both conditions are valid.
I think what Matt had wanted to do with this feature is for it to last for a long time, but not have the effect usable for anyone but the BH. I.e., protection from enemies disarming & using the weapon, and preventing the BH from passing an imbued weapon to allies. Could've been done better, but there's nothing wrong with how it is RAW.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
If he wanted it to stay imbued until the next rest no matter what, he wouldn't have added the further conditional description. You could even apply the specific > general rule to this feature.
I agree that he probably was shooting for Sigred's interpretation, but as written, your rite fades every time you climb a ladder or go to the bathroom. Unfortunate.
Poor wording and design; both conditions are valid.
I think what Matt had wanted to do with this feature is for it to last for a long time, but not have the effect usable for anyone but the BH. I.e., protection from enemies disarming & using the weapon, and preventing the BH from passing an imbued weapon to allies. Could've been done better, but there's nothing wrong with how it is RAW.
Seems like he would've been able to avoid the poor wording and accomplish the above goal if the text said "the Rite is immediately cancelled if anyone else uses the weapon."
Poor wording and design; both conditions are valid.
I think what Matt had wanted to do with this feature is for it to last for a long time, but not have the effect usable for anyone but the BH. I.e., protection from enemies disarming & using the weapon, and preventing the BH from passing an imbued weapon to allies. Could've been done better, but there's nothing wrong with how it is RAW.
Seems like he would've been able to avoid the poor wording and accomplish the above goal if the text said "the Rite is immediately cancelled if anyone else uses the weapon."
Or by saying "Should your weapon leave your possession, the rite fades immediately."
RAW is what it is, and it's not terrible either... just not that attractive in actual practice. The BH in my OotA campaign rarely uses rites anymore, and he even has the less-penalizing Rite of the Dawn. :/
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Like, I would have preferred if it was written to explicitly only last for an encounter, as opposed to leaving the door open to lasting all day, because what it inevitably results in is either a) a gotcha moment from the DM when they're like "describe how you mounted your horse without using both hands? Ok, you're going to have to take another X damage if you want your rite back."; or b) the player going through tortuous mental gymnastics to explain how they do everything with one hand and definitely don't put down their sword! for every little mundane task, arguing defensively if the DM raises an eyebrow. Like, better to just shut the door on all of that and say "you have to take that damage at the start of each encounter" if that's what the intent is, or "you have to take that damage at the end of each short rest" if that's what the intent is, and cut out the opportunity for controversy.
Agreed. A definitive duration would be best. I definitely don't think it's meant to last that long... like an hour at best.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I didn't find the rite wording confusing, I was just deeply disappointed in the ability. For all those hp you sacrifice, I would hope it lasts a long time.
Honestly, for that price and as little benefit as you receive, I would have liked it to be persistent even if you get dropped. My experience was harsher than most, but i spent most combats getting dropped every round and revived on someone else's turn.
I got little to no benefit from it. Then got even more pissed when I noticed other classes got better benefits with far less cost (ranger horizon walker, paladin of course). The knife in the back is the fact that the damage you take on activation is character level (not class level).
Thematically? They're awesome. In fact, i loved that character. But the mechanics just leave me cold.
I think the simplest way to make it long term but prevent it being shared would be to just add the clause, "these benefits only work for you." Then the blood hunter could put it down and pick it up, but for everyone else it's just a normal weapon.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The class seems like its abilities were too much risk for too little reward. I would imagine there's a revised version in the book just announced today...
The class seems like its abilities were too much risk for too little reward. I would imagine there's a revised version in the book just announced today...
I didn't find the rite wording confusing, I was just deeply disappointed in the ability. For all those hp you sacrifice, I would hope it lasts a long time.
Honestly, for that price and as little benefit as you receive, I would have liked it to be persistent even if you get dropped. My experience was harsher than most, but i spent most combats getting dropped every round and revived on someone else's turn.
I got little to no benefit from it. Then got even more pissed when I noticed other classes got better benefits with far less cost (ranger horizon walker, paladin of course). The knife in the back is the fact that the damage you take on activation is character level (not class level).
Thematically? They're awesome. In fact, i loved that character. But the mechanics just leave me cold.
I actually miss the 1.3 Version of its Level 20 ability over the D&D Beyond shown Level 20 ability. Because this is how Sanguine Mastery [Level 20 ability] was written in 1.3:
"Upon becoming 20th level, your crimson rite is perfected, no longer requiring visceral sacrifice. When you have an active crimsion rite, you no longer reduce your maximum hit points & you take no damage when amplifying blood curses. In addition, when you are below 1/4 of your current maximum hit points & conscious, all of your crimson rite damage dice are maximized."
Whereas D&D Beyond has Sanguine Mastery written:
"Upon becoming 20th level, your ability to harness your pain, and the pain of your foes, is perfected. When you are below one fourth of your current maximum hit points, all of your crimson rite damage dice are maximized. In addition, when you critically hit with a weapon attack that bears your crimson rite, you regain a use of your Blood Maledict feature."
The class seems like its abilities were too much risk for too little reward. I would imagine there's a revised version in the book just announced today...
To my knowledge, BH isn't included in the book
The perils of posting before the official announcement drops. :)
Mercer did hint there might be revisions coming via DMs Guild, though.
Damn really? Getting a fixed version of Blood Hunter was probably a major selling point for a lot of dndbeyond users, unfortunate that the opportunity is being missed. Will it have any classes/subclasses at all or is it just a setting gazette? If it the book DOES have other class options.... I wonder if leaving BH off was just a misstep, or if there's some sort of licensing angle...
Blood hunter in particular would have been a good one to include since it was not at all in the Green Ronin book and a blood hunter is a major character in the Wildemount campaign. I haven't seen anywhere that specifically says it will not be included--just a lack of mention that it is.
It is probably not included :(
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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The Crimson Rite class feature of the blood hunter includes this paragraph (emphasis mine):
As a bonus action, you imbue a single weapon with the elemental energy of a known rite until your next short or long rest. While active, attacks from this weapon deal an additional 1d4 rite damage of the chosen elemental type. Rite damage is considered magical. The rite damage die changes as you gain blood hunter levels, as shown in the crimson rite damage die column of the blood hunter table. Should your weapon leave your grip, the rite fades immediately. An active rite on a weapon thrown fades directly after the attack is complete.
My parsing of this means that as long as the blood hunter is actually holding the weapon, it is actively imbued. IF the blood hunter sheathes or releases the weapon for any reason, it is no longer imbued.
Is that correct? I find the language above slightly confusing as it seems to say both that the weapon is imbued until the next rest (period) but then says it's only imbued as long as it's actually within the blood hunter's "grip" (which strongly suggests that once it's sheathed or put down, it's no longer imbued).
Both ending conditions are true, and the Crimson Rite ends as soon as one of them occurs. If you hold onto your weapon throughout the next short or long rest, the imbuement fades, and if you sheathe or drop the weapon, the imbuement fades.
Poor wording and design; both conditions are valid.
I think what Matt had wanted to do with this feature is for it to last for a long time, but not have the effect usable for anyone but the BH. I.e., protection from enemies disarming & using the weapon, and preventing the BH from passing an imbued weapon to allies. Could've been done better, but there's nothing wrong with how it is RAW.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
If he wanted it to stay imbued until the next rest no matter what, he wouldn't have added the further conditional description. You could even apply the specific > general rule to this feature.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I agree that he probably was shooting for Sigred's interpretation, but as written, your rite fades every time you climb a ladder or go to the bathroom. Unfortunate.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Huh? You put away your sword when you... reach for your sword? Is it weird that I don't?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Seems like he would've been able to avoid the poor wording and accomplish the above goal if the text said "the Rite is immediately cancelled if anyone else uses the weapon."
Or by saying "Should your weapon leave your possession, the rite fades immediately."
RAW is what it is, and it's not terrible either... just not that attractive in actual practice. The BH in my OotA campaign rarely uses rites anymore, and he even has the less-penalizing Rite of the Dawn. :/
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Like, I would have preferred if it was written to explicitly only last for an encounter, as opposed to leaving the door open to lasting all day, because what it inevitably results in is either a) a gotcha moment from the DM when they're like "describe how you mounted your horse without using both hands? Ok, you're going to have to take another X damage if you want your rite back."; or b) the player going through tortuous mental gymnastics to explain how they do everything with one hand and definitely don't put down their sword! for every little mundane task, arguing defensively if the DM raises an eyebrow. Like, better to just shut the door on all of that and say "you have to take that damage at the start of each encounter" if that's what the intent is, or "you have to take that damage at the end of each short rest" if that's what the intent is, and cut out the opportunity for controversy.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Agreed. A definitive duration would be best. I definitely don't think it's meant to last that long... like an hour at best.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
For my table's blood hunter, it only lasts until his hybrid transformation ends because he usually magics his claws.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I didn't find the rite wording confusing, I was just deeply disappointed in the ability. For all those hp you sacrifice, I would hope it lasts a long time.
Honestly, for that price and as little benefit as you receive, I would have liked it to be persistent even if you get dropped. My experience was harsher than most, but i spent most combats getting dropped every round and revived on someone else's turn.
I got little to no benefit from it. Then got even more pissed when I noticed other classes got better benefits with far less cost (ranger horizon walker, paladin of course). The knife in the back is the fact that the damage you take on activation is character level (not class level).
Thematically? They're awesome. In fact, i loved that character. But the mechanics just leave me cold.
I think the simplest way to make it long term but prevent it being shared would be to just add the clause, "these benefits only work for you." Then the blood hunter could put it down and pick it up, but for everyone else it's just a normal weapon.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The class seems like its abilities were too much risk for too little reward. I would imagine there's a revised version in the book just announced today...
That would be the only exception due to the Order of Lycan's usually using their Rites on their hands/claws as opposed to weapons
To my knowledge, BH isn't included in the book
I actually miss the 1.3 Version of its Level 20 ability over the D&D Beyond shown Level 20 ability. Because this is how Sanguine Mastery [Level 20 ability] was written in 1.3:
"Upon becoming 20th level, your crimson rite is perfected, no longer requiring visceral sacrifice. When you have an active crimsion rite, you no longer reduce your maximum hit points & you take no damage when amplifying blood curses. In addition, when you are below 1/4 of your current maximum hit points & conscious, all of your crimson rite damage dice are maximized."
Whereas D&D Beyond has Sanguine Mastery written:
"Upon becoming 20th level, your ability to harness your pain, and the pain of your foes, is perfected. When you are below one fourth of your current maximum hit points, all of your crimson rite damage dice are maximized. In addition, when you critically hit with a weapon attack that bears your crimson rite, you regain a use of your Blood Maledict feature."
The perils of posting before the official announcement drops. :)
Mercer did hint there might be revisions coming via DMs Guild, though.
Damn really? Getting a fixed version of Blood Hunter was probably a major selling point for a lot of dndbeyond users, unfortunate that the opportunity is being missed. Will it have any classes/subclasses at all or is it just a setting gazette? If it the book DOES have other class options.... I wonder if leaving BH off was just a misstep, or if there's some sort of licensing angle...
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Blood hunter in particular would have been a good one to include since it was not at all in the Green Ronin book and a blood hunter is a major character in the Wildemount campaign. I haven't seen anywhere that specifically says it will not be included--just a lack of mention that it is.
It is probably not included :(
"Not all those who wander are lost"