This post has potentially manipulated dice roll results.
Another rules question from BDaddLy for those brave enough to read on...
I'm focussing on the last paragraph of Find Familiar
... Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
Your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast it ... use your attack modifier for the roll.
Everyone loves their owl, but I'm particular to bats (Not only for mechanics). The bat has 30 foot Blindsight: magical darkness, fog, blinding light, terrible ugliness? No problem that bat can sense the foe with Echolocation and deliver that spell, probably even with advantage!
Now it hits of course and you roll damage. I'd presume you roll damage as though you had cast the spell, because you did. So that cantrip it does 4d8+5 not 1d8 because of your level and your Potent Cantrips, or whatever.
I think we're all on the same page. Now it gets hairy. You take Magic Initiate to cast Hex. You use an action to use your pets senses and the bat lets out a chirp allowing you to see that BBEG up ahead. You Hex the dummy's Wisdom so he won't notice your allies sneaking in. Batman flaps in with you looking through his eyes again and he lands on BBEG's big bad evil head. You cast your spell and Batman delivers that Shocking Grasp roll... 7... Roll for Advantage... 20! Critical hit! Roll damage...
So features like Hex say "whenever you hit it with an attack." Did you hit it. Did you really?
8d8+2d6+5 (49) Big Bad Evil Guy? He's not so big and bad after all your allies swarm in and his high initiative gets him out of surprise quickly but he still can't react as foes dart in and around and away. He falls before he even takes a step. Everyone high fives Batman. You pay 10 gold to bring Batman back to the material plain.
(TL;DR? If your familiar delivers a spell and it hits. Did you hit an enemy with an attack? Also, do you agree you roll damage as if you had cast it, and that your familiar benefits from its senses when delivering it.)
I think the intent was that it goes off of your stats when calculating damage and everything. The "as if it had cast the spell" is just saying that since it's a touch attack, your familiar can be the one touching it instead of you. If it had meant for you to use the familiars stats for damage then it wouldn't make sense for the spell to use your attack modifier. The last part is the part that gives the intent, it uses your attack modifier so it should use your damage.
Also, by the same logic (using your attack modifier) it would mean that YOU hit the enemy. Otherwise your familiar would be making the roll, and you would use it's stats.
So features like Hex say "whenever you hit it with an attack." Did you hit it. Did you really?
Find Familiar says "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll." It doesn't say the familiar uses your attack modifier. The intent seems to be that you're still the one making the attack, kind of like when a cleric makes a melee spell attack with Spiritual Weapon.
Unfortunately I don't have any official tweets or Sage Advice answers to link to on this one.
(TL;DR? If your familiar delivers a spell and it hits. Did you hit an enemy with an attack? Also, do you agree you roll damage as if you had cast it, and that your familiar benefits from its senses when delivering it.)
If I hold a spell, I can't also concentrate on the fog cloud giving the bat its advantage, and denying the foe their Oppertunities.
Surely we wouldn't allow a familiar to fly to the enemy, give the player Help, and then allow the player to cast the spell with advantage on the attack roll from the help? The familiar delivers the spell, as if it had cast it, using your modifier for the attack roll. If we give the familiar any advantage or disadvantage it would take when it delivers the spell (as if it had cast the spell) wouldn't that supersede any advantage or disadvantage you might have if you delivered it yourself?
The way it's worded is clear that you cast the spell. And when you cast spells you gain benefits associated with your characters features, including bonuses to damage, among other things, but when the familiar delivers it with your attack modifier it is not you making that attack. (Thankfully, cause you are locked in a cell down stairs and are out of reach and sight.)
I must concede InquisitiveCoder's point though. It does say "... If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier ..." where it could otherwise read, "... If the spell requires an attack roll, use your attack modifier ..."
If your familiar delivers a spell and it hits. Did you hit an enemy with an attack? Also, do you agree you roll damage as if you had cast it, and that your familiar benefits from its senses when delivering it.)
Yes, yes, no, because I disagree with the tweet linked above.
Attacking through the familiar uses your attack modifier when you cast the spell which means if you can't see your target the the blindness rules apply.
You only get to use the familiar's senses if you have spent the action to see through its eyes, which means you no longer have an action to cast shocking grasp.
If you don't hold the spell with a ready action, then actually getting the spell off can require tricky timing. The familiar has its own turn seperate from yours, in which it needs to move into position for the spell. You casting a spell through the familiar does not allow him to use any movement Then your turn needs to come before the enemy has his turn, or else he's probably moved or killed the familiar before you can cast the spell.
there are several things I might be missing, but let me ask anyways...
1. Understanding that a familiar does not attack, per the summon familiar spell, the only attack action that is occurring is you casting a spell and the familiar "delivering" said spell using a reaction action. My understanding is there is no additional damage, only the spell damage assuming that the spell hits it's intended target.
1.a. Per the above, it would seem out of line with the RaW to allow a familiar to take the Help Action, thoughts?
2. Ultimately it is a matter of timing, the wizard readies his action to cast when the familiar strikes/is in rage to the target, thus delivering the touch spell.
summon a spirit into a nearby unoccupied space that takes the physical form of an animal. The creature you summon is bonded to you in a few important ways, but is otherwise a fully-fledged creature at your service for an infinite duration. It obeys your commands, but it acts independently and has its own spot in initiative.
As far as I can see, The familiar is an extension of your spirit but acts independently. Thus, you cast the touch spell, the familiar reacts to the casting of the spell and touches the monster. Which means sadly, even as an owl, it actually has to be right next to the monster at the end of the familiars turn. (are you trying to get it killed?) thus why its usually better if you only use this ability for helpful touch spells on your party not the monsters.
unless of course you don't mind using every short rest to recast and spend the 10gp.
If you cast dragon’s breath on the familiar, it can run around breathing fire with it’s action and then casting shocking grasp with it’s reaction, that’s more action economy than a PC.
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The melee sorlock is superior. Argue with me.
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Another rules question from BDaddLy for those brave enough to read on...
I'm focussing on the last paragraph of Find Familiar
... Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
Your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast it ... use your attack modifier for the roll.
Everyone loves their owl, but I'm particular to bats (Not only for mechanics). The bat has 30 foot Blindsight: magical darkness, fog, blinding light, terrible ugliness? No problem that bat can sense the foe with Echolocation and deliver that spell, probably even with advantage!
Now it hits of course and you roll damage. I'd presume you roll damage as though you had cast the spell, because you did. So that cantrip it does 4d8+5 not 1d8 because of your level and your Potent Cantrips, or whatever.
I think we're all on the same page. Now it gets hairy. You take Magic Initiate to cast Hex. You use an action to use your pets senses and the bat lets out a chirp allowing you to see that BBEG up ahead. You Hex the dummy's Wisdom so he won't notice your allies sneaking in. Batman flaps in with you looking through his eyes again and he lands on BBEG's big bad evil head. You cast your spell and Batman delivers that Shocking Grasp roll... 7... Roll for Advantage... 20! Critical hit! Roll damage...
So features like Hex say "whenever you hit it with an attack." Did you hit it. Did you really?
8d8+2d6+5 (49) Big Bad Evil Guy? He's not so big and bad after all your allies swarm in and his high initiative gets him out of surprise quickly but he still can't react as foes dart in and around and away. He falls before he even takes a step. Everyone high fives Batman. You pay 10 gold to bring Batman back to the material plain.
(TL;DR? If your familiar delivers a spell and it hits. Did you hit an enemy with an attack? Also, do you agree you roll damage as if you had cast it, and that your familiar benefits from its senses when delivering it.)
Extended Signature
I think the intent was that it goes off of your stats when calculating damage and everything. The "as if it had cast the spell" is just saying that since it's a touch attack, your familiar can be the one touching it instead of you. If it had meant for you to use the familiars stats for damage then it wouldn't make sense for the spell to use your attack modifier. The last part is the part that gives the intent, it uses your attack modifier so it should use your damage.
Also, by the same logic (using your attack modifier) it would mean that YOU hit the enemy. Otherwise your familiar would be making the roll, and you would use it's stats.
Find Familiar says "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll." It doesn't say the familiar uses your attack modifier. The intent seems to be that you're still the one making the attack, kind of like when a cleric makes a melee spell attack with Spiritual Weapon.
Unfortunately I don't have any official tweets or Sage Advice answers to link to on this one.
You don't have disadvantage when your familiar delivers a touch attack against a target you can't see but it can't. So I'd agree the familiar benefits from its senses while delivering it.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
If I hold a spell, I can't also concentrate on the fog cloud giving the bat its advantage, and denying the foe their Oppertunities.
Surely we wouldn't allow a familiar to fly to the enemy, give the player Help, and then allow the player to cast the spell with advantage on the attack roll from the help? The familiar delivers the spell, as if it had cast it, using your modifier for the attack roll. If we give the familiar any advantage or disadvantage it would take when it delivers the spell (as if it had cast the spell) wouldn't that supersede any advantage or disadvantage you might have if you delivered it yourself?
The way it's worded is clear that you cast the spell. And when you cast spells you gain benefits associated with your characters features, including bonuses to damage, among other things, but when the familiar delivers it with your attack modifier it is not you making that attack. (Thankfully, cause you are locked in a cell down stairs and are out of reach and sight.)
I must concede InquisitiveCoder's point though. It does say "... If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier ..." where it could otherwise read, "... If the spell requires an attack roll, use your attack modifier ..."
Extended Signature
Yes, yes, no, because I disagree with the tweet linked above.
Attacking through the familiar uses your attack modifier when you cast the spell which means if you can't see your target the the blindness rules apply.
You only get to use the familiar's senses if you have spent the action to see through its eyes, which means you no longer have an action to cast shocking grasp.
If you don't hold the spell with a ready action, then actually getting the spell off can require tricky timing. The familiar has its own turn seperate from yours, in which it needs to move into position for the spell. You casting a spell through the familiar does not allow him to use any movement Then your turn needs to come before the enemy has his turn, or else he's probably moved or killed the familiar before you can cast the spell.
there are several things I might be missing, but let me ask anyways...
1. Understanding that a familiar does not attack, per the summon familiar spell, the only attack action that is occurring is you casting a spell and the familiar "delivering" said spell using a reaction action. My understanding is there is no additional damage, only the spell damage assuming that the spell hits it's intended target.
1.a. Per the above, it would seem out of line with the RaW to allow a familiar to take the Help Action, thoughts?
2. Ultimately it is a matter of timing, the wizard readies his action to cast when the familiar strikes/is in rage to the target, thus delivering the touch spell.
Am I missing anything?
Palmate
Using Help is certainly the most common use of the familiar in this community. If you try and take that away the players will revolt!
But can the familiar benefit from help when delivering the spell? Can you? One or the other must.
Extended Signature
As far as I can see, The familiar is an extension of your spirit but acts independently. Thus, you cast the touch spell, the familiar reacts to the casting of the spell and touches the monster. Which means sadly, even as an owl, it actually has to be right next to the monster at the end of the familiars turn. (are you trying to get it killed?) thus why its usually better if you only use this ability for helpful touch spells on your party not the monsters.
unless of course you don't mind using every short rest to recast and spend the 10gp.
If you cast dragon’s breath on the familiar, it can run around breathing fire with it’s action and then casting shocking grasp with it’s reaction, that’s more action economy than a PC.
The melee sorlock is superior. Argue with me.