So i was wonder if you still have control of of a demon you summon greater demon with can you command it to return to the abyss or the like? Can i command it to fall on its sword or jump off a cliff? What about Commanding it to stand still while my party kills it? I mean unless you manage to get your DC high enough that it literally can't win even with a 20 and its modifiers its going to break out at some point over the course of 600 turns unless you can hurl it into enough enemies to kill it before then.
Since the demon disappears when the spell ends 1d6 rounds after you stop concentrating on it, you can simply stop concentrating on the spell - the demon will return from whence it came.
If the demon doesn't have a teleport or plane shift ability then when you command it to go home it will have difficulty doing that (unless it knows of a nearby portal).
Technically? I can't see any reason the answer would be no.
Those kinds of conjuration spells pretty much assume that you can send them into harm's way without issue, so having them attack themselves or jump off a cliff seems allowable, even if a DM might choose to impose other penalties.
My instinct would be to give the demon advantage on its checks while doing anything purely self-destructive, since it's no longer performing a "service" and there is no hope for survival, but that's not RAW.
If you can get your Spell DC high enough to let the Demon survive several rounds of combat and then sit patiently while you slaughter it, then you've probably earned the easy out.
At 7th level, the demon you'll be summoning isn't actually going to pose that much of a challenge for your group, unless you're pretty beaten down already. A CR 5 demon against a CR 7+ monster is going to take a few good hits, so your job will really just be finishing it off. Or, you can just run away from it for a couple of rounds until it poofs back on its own.
Couldn't hurt to have banishment, just in case, but it's not worth planning on using two spell slots when it's guaranteed to disappear on its own. Especially when Banishment might fail...
Worst cast scenario, you can always cast Summon Greater Demon to hold it off for a while. ;)
However, a cheaper option to Banishment would be something like Levitate, which you should be able to cast on it as a Willing creature, so long as you have control. Once it's afflicted, then you can hold it harmlessly in the air, unless you've chosen something with a fly speed.
Dispel Magic is never a bad thing to have on hand.
Tiny Hut gives you an impervious defense, if you have time to prep.
Plenty of ways to stall for time, depending on how prepared you are.
Point taken. Its a fairly squishy group all in all though so i'd be a little worried if it did end up getting back in among us.
That's why the caster should use the benefit of the drawn symbol to hide inside during the summons.
True, though i have some other fairly fragile party members who'd also be in trouble if the barbarian either doesn't have enough HP left or is out of position for it. Ideally i'd be throwing it into a target/targets meaty enough as little as possible walks out of it alive.
Worst cast scenario, you can always cast Summon Greater Demon to hold it off for a while. ;)
However, a cheaper option to Banishment would be something like Levitate, which you should be able to cast on it as a Willing creature, so long as you have control. Once it's afflicted, then you can hold it harmlessly in the air, unless you've chosen something with a fly speed.
Dispel Magic is never a bad thing to have on hand.
Tiny Hut gives you an impervious defense, if you have time to prep.
Plenty of ways to stall for time, depending on how prepared you are.
As a warlock only dispel magic would be available to me but that might be a very good option seeing as ive not been fighting much in the way of extra planar creatures recently.
If you have control over the demon, it disappears immediately when you stop concentrating. The 1d6 rounds trigger is "If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, an uncontrolled demon doesn’t disappear for 1d6 rounds".
If you have control over the demon, it disappears immediately when you stop concentrating. The 1d6 rounds trigger is "If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, an uncontrolled demon doesn’t disappear for 1d6 rounds".
Ah, good catch!
So, basically, no worries if you play it safe, but if you push your luck, you're going to suffer consequences either way.
None of this is to say that Summon Greater Demon is a terribly good idea for a PC spell. It's decently useful if you're an evil wizard who doesn't care if the demon is controlled as long as it wreaks havoc, but looking at the net value (assuming summoning a Barlgura against save DC 15), for each round where you don't send it back, on average it spends 1 action attacking your enemies and 0.875 actions attacking the party (if you just let it remain until it breaks free, on average 4 rounds fighting your enemies and 3.5 rounds fighting you).
Fortunately, being "uncontrolled" doesn't necessarily mean it will attack the party. If they can summon the demon somewhere that it can't easily target the party in melee, then it will most likely continue to attack the opponents, so long as they aren't demons.
Yeah, the trick with any summoning spell is to make sure that what you're trying to fight is between you and the summoned critter. As long as your summoned demon/elemental/whatever has to go through your enemy to reach you, it's still useful.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
In character they'd mainly be using it as their last chance reserve card, and mainly when fighting devils. Ideally i might be able to find a big book of demon names kind of thing that'd let me summon Barlgura or maybe a tanarukk with a reasonable chance of being able to keep it under my control until either it or all the enemies are dead.
Hello, I have a question about invoking a higher demon, my DM says that you can unvoke the demon directly using dissipation magic.
For me, the only thing that can be dissipated is the link that keeps it under my control and disappears with 1D6 laps remaining.
Because the magic on the demon only serves to keep control, so if the magic effect ends, it will not work on the presence of the demon, but I think you can always ban it.
As Dispel Magic says, it works on a spell, that's why I wonder what you think of it.
Thank you and sorry if there is a problem, English is not my mother tongue
Hello, I have a question about invoking a higher demon, my DM says that you can unvoke the demon directly using dissipation magic.
For me, the only thing that can be dissipated is the link that keeps it under my control and disappears with 1D6 laps remaining.
Because the magic on the demon only serves to keep control, so if the magic effect ends, it will not work on the presence of the demon, but I think you can always ban it.
As Dispel Magic says, it works on a spell, that's why I wonder what you think of it.
Thank you and sorry if there is a problem, English is not my mother tongue
On a successful save, your control of the demon ends for the rest of the duration, and the demon spends its turns pursuing and attacking the nearest non-demons to the best of its ability. If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, an uncontrolled demon doesn’t disappear for 1d6 rounds if it still has hit points.
If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, the spell ends and the uncontrolled demon is no longer under a spell effect and cannot be dispelled.
Concentration (Player's Handbook, p.203):
Some spells require you to maintain concentration in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends.
If your concentration is broken, the elemental doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the elemental, it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and it might attack. An uncontrolled elemental can't be dismissed by you, and it disappears 1 hour after you summoned it.
If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, the spell ends and the uncontrolled demon is no longer under a spell effect and cannot be dispelled.
Correction: if you stop concentrating on the spell, the spell ends. If the demon was controlled at the time the spell ended, it disappears immediately. If the demon was uncontrolled (made its save) it will not disappear until 1d6 rounds elapse. Dispel magic has the same effect here as breaking concentration.
Note that this is not the same as conjure elemental. A conjured elemental only goes uncontrolled if your concentration is broken, whereas a summoned demon can go uncontrolled on its turn, and does not go uncontrolled for having concentration broken.
If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, the spell ends and the uncontrolled demon is no longer under a spell effect and cannot be dispelled.
Correction: if you stop concentrating on the spell, the spell ends. If the demon was controlled at the time the spell ended, it disappears immediately. If the demon was uncontrolled (made its save) it will not disappear until 1d6 rounds elapse. Dispel magic has the same effect here as breaking concentration.
Note that this is not the same as conjure elemental. A conjured elemental only goes uncontrolled if your concentration is broken, whereas a summoned demon can go uncontrolled on its turn, and does not go uncontrolled for having concentration broken.
Yes, I wrote that only in the context of an uncontrolled demon. Sorry if I didn't explain myself well. As you said, if you stop concentrating and the demon is under control, that demon disappears.
Regarding Dispel Magic, I think it should be possible to target the summoned demon and dispel it if you are concentrating and the spell is still ongoing, whether or not the demon is under your control. This is similar to other conjured creatures because the spell is still active.
So i was wonder if you still have control of of a demon you summon greater demon with can you command it to return to the abyss or the like? Can i command it to fall on its sword or jump off a cliff? What about Commanding it to stand still while my party kills it? I mean unless you manage to get your DC high enough that it literally can't win even with a 20 and its modifiers its going to break out at some point over the course of 600 turns unless you can hurl it into enough enemies to kill it before then.
Since the demon disappears when the spell ends 1d6 rounds after you stop concentrating on it, you can simply stop concentrating on the spell - the demon will return from whence it came.
If the demon doesn't have a teleport or plane shift ability then when you command it to go home it will have difficulty doing that (unless it knows of a nearby portal).
Technically? I can't see any reason the answer would be no.
Those kinds of conjuration spells pretty much assume that you can send them into harm's way without issue, so having them attack themselves or jump off a cliff seems allowable, even if a DM might choose to impose other penalties.
My instinct would be to give the demon advantage on its checks while doing anything purely self-destructive, since it's no longer performing a "service" and there is no hope for survival, but that's not RAW.
If you can get your Spell DC high enough to let the Demon survive several rounds of combat and then sit patiently while you slaughter it, then you've probably earned the easy out.
Thanks. Still potentially 6 rounds of having to fight the thing seems dangerous, i might have to take banishment to.
At 7th level, the demon you'll be summoning isn't actually going to pose that much of a challenge for your group, unless you're pretty beaten down already. A CR 5 demon against a CR 7+ monster is going to take a few good hits, so your job will really just be finishing it off. Or, you can just run away from it for a couple of rounds until it poofs back on its own.
Couldn't hurt to have banishment, just in case, but it's not worth planning on using two spell slots when it's guaranteed to disappear on its own. Especially when Banishment might fail...
Point taken. Its a fairly squishy group all in all though so i'd be a little worried if it did end up getting back in among us.
That's why the caster should use the benefit of the drawn symbol to hide inside during the summons.
Worst cast scenario, you can always cast Summon Greater Demon to hold it off for a while. ;)
However, a cheaper option to Banishment would be something like Levitate, which you should be able to cast on it as a Willing creature, so long as you have control. Once it's afflicted, then you can hold it harmlessly in the air, unless you've chosen something with a fly speed.
Dispel Magic is never a bad thing to have on hand.
Tiny Hut gives you an impervious defense, if you have time to prep.
Plenty of ways to stall for time, depending on how prepared you are.
True, though i have some other fairly fragile party members who'd also be in trouble if the barbarian either doesn't have enough HP left or is out of position for it. Ideally i'd be throwing it into a target/targets meaty enough as little as possible walks out of it alive.
As a warlock only dispel magic would be available to me but that might be a very good option seeing as ive not been fighting much in the way of extra planar creatures recently.
If you have control over the demon, it disappears immediately when you stop concentrating. The 1d6 rounds trigger is "If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, an uncontrolled demon doesn’t disappear for 1d6 rounds".
Ah, good catch!
So, basically, no worries if you play it safe, but if you push your luck, you're going to suffer consequences either way.
None of this is to say that Summon Greater Demon is a terribly good idea for a PC spell. It's decently useful if you're an evil wizard who doesn't care if the demon is controlled as long as it wreaks havoc, but looking at the net value (assuming summoning a Barlgura against save DC 15), for each round where you don't send it back, on average it spends 1 action attacking your enemies and 0.875 actions attacking the party (if you just let it remain until it breaks free, on average 4 rounds fighting your enemies and 3.5 rounds fighting you).
Fortunately, being "uncontrolled" doesn't necessarily mean it will attack the party. If they can summon the demon somewhere that it can't easily target the party in melee, then it will most likely continue to attack the opponents, so long as they aren't demons.
Yeah, the trick with any summoning spell is to make sure that what you're trying to fight is between you and the summoned critter. As long as your summoned demon/elemental/whatever has to go through your enemy to reach you, it's still useful.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
In character they'd mainly be using it as their last chance reserve card, and mainly when fighting devils. Ideally i might be able to find a big book of demon names kind of thing that'd let me summon Barlgura or maybe a tanarukk with a reasonable chance of being able to keep it under my control until either it or all the enemies are dead.
Hello, I have a question about invoking a higher demon, my DM says that you can unvoke the demon directly using dissipation magic.
For me, the only thing that can be dissipated is the link that keeps it under my control and disappears with 1D6 laps remaining.
Because the magic on the demon only serves to keep control, so if the magic effect ends, it will not work on the presence of the demon, but I think you can always ban it.
As Dispel Magic says, it works on a spell, that's why I wonder what you think of it.
Thank you and sorry if there is a problem, English is not my mother tongue
We have this official ruling in the SAC:
Summon Greater Demon is similar to Conjure Woodland Beings, so the demon can be dispelled.
But... we have this in Summon Greater Demon (emphasis mine):
If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, the spell ends and the uncontrolled demon is no longer under a spell effect and cannot be dispelled.
Concentration (Player's Handbook, p.203):
By the way, we have a similar behavior for Conjure Elemental:
Correction: if you stop concentrating on the spell, the spell ends. If the demon was controlled at the time the spell ended, it disappears immediately. If the demon was uncontrolled (made its save) it will not disappear until 1d6 rounds elapse. Dispel magic has the same effect here as breaking concentration.
Note that this is not the same as conjure elemental. A conjured elemental only goes uncontrolled if your concentration is broken, whereas a summoned demon can go uncontrolled on its turn, and does not go uncontrolled for having concentration broken.
Yes, I wrote that only in the context of an uncontrolled demon. Sorry if I didn't explain myself well. As you said, if you stop concentrating and the demon is under control, that demon disappears.
Regarding Dispel Magic, I think it should be possible to target the summoned demon and dispel it if you are concentrating and the spell is still ongoing, whether or not the demon is under your control. This is similar to other conjured creatures because the spell is still active.
Huh, that's really peculiar wording in the Conjure Elemental spell:
and yet:
According to the general rules for spellcasting, Chapter 10 of the PHB, we have this:
This spell actually requires errata. Currently it does not function correctly.