Simple question, would Radiant Soul from the Celestial Warlock add charisma damage to Flame Blade once per round, or would you only get it once for the whole casting of the spell?
When dealing with a feature that alters a spell's damage roll(s), I find the easiest way to clearly see what the practical effect will be is to re-write the text of the spell including what the feature says it does as part of the text.
Examples:
Empowered evocation says you can add your intelligence modifier to one damage roll, so adding it to fireball would result in the following text; " A target takes 8d6 + your intelligence modifier fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one." Which is why the boost applies to every target - the "one roll" is for everyone.
Using the same feature on magic missile result in; "A dart deals 1d4 + 1 + your intelligence modifier force damage to its target." Which is why that spell, RAW, applies your damage bonus to each of the darts - they are "one damage roll" that is applied multiple times, not multiple damage rolls (I know a lot of folks are still rolling 1 die for each missile because that's what we are used to, but the rules as written are to roll a single die and use its result for every dart created).
Putting radiant soul (add your charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll) into flame blade results in this; "On a hit, the target takes 3d6 + your charisma modifier fire damage." Which is how it is clear that the bonus applies every time you manage to hit, because the spell only has one damage roll.
A spell has to have multiple damage rolls, like acid arrow does, in order to make features adding damage to one damage roll not apply to something.
Putting radiant soul (add your charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll) into flame blade results in this; "On a hit, the target takes 3d6 + your charisma modifier fire damage." Which is how it is clear that the bonus applies every time you manage to hit, because the spell only has one damage roll.
A spell has to have multiple damage rolls, like acid arrow does, in order to make features adding damage to one damage roll not apply to something.
You make a new damage roll every time you hit the target with Flame Blade. Even if you're rolling the same dice each time, those are still distinct damage rolls. Radiant Soul can only add its damage bonus to one of those rolls. What you're saying would be true if you rolled damage for Flame Blade once and used the same number for all hits throughout its duration.
I sadly have to agree with filcat. Radiant Soul only applies to one roll on one target That includes fireballs. That means a flaming sphere only does bonus damage on the very first target it hits, a fireball only does it to one of the targets in the area, and green-flame blade only hits one of the 2 targets for bonus fire damage. Its a weak ability compared to some other classes.
On the upside 2024 Celestals can add agonizing to any cantrip, including green-flame blade. That applies to all damage rolls, so you'd get to add Cha to both the initial target, and the second target, and stack that with the Cha fire damage of Radiant Soul. Another good combo for agonzing would be Word of Radiance if you're able to gain the cantrip. Agonizing adds to all the targets +Cha, and you can add an extra +Cha from Radiant to one target hit you really want to finish off. Weaker damage than the other patron options to be sure, but then they did 'focus Celestials on support skills'.
I sadly have to agree with filcat. Radiant Soul only applies to one roll on one target That includes fireballs. That means a flaming sphere only does bonus damage on the very first target it hits, a fireball only does it to one of the targets in the area [...]
I think that bolded sentence is right, but we have this rule in the PHB, p. 196:
Damage Rolls [...] If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them. For example, when a wizard casts fireball or a cleric casts flame strike, the spell's damage is rolled once for all creatures caught in the blast.
For AoE spells affected by Radiant Soult, I guess we need to roll damage first for one creature and then roll again for the remaining ones (if any)
Bonus question/thought: The Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer's Elemental Affinity feature would behave differently, right? I mean, for a fireball, Elemental Affinity would apply to all creatures, whereas Radiant Soul would only apply to one. Is it OK?
Radiant Soul Starting at 6th level, your link to the Celestial allows you to serve as a conduit for radiant energy. You have resistance to radiant damage, and when you cast a spell that deals radiant or fire damage, you add your Charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll of that spell against one of its targets.
Elemental Affinity Starting at 6th level, when you cast a spell that deals damage of the type associated with your draconic ancestry, you can add your Charisma modifier to one damage roll of that spell. At the same time, you can spend 1 sorcery point to gain resistance to that damage type for 1 hour.
I sadly have to agree with filcat. Radiant Soul only applies to one roll on one target That includes fireballs. That means a flaming sphere only does bonus damage on the very first target it hits, a fireball only does it to one of the targets in the area [...]
I think that bolded sentence is right, but we have this rule in the PHB, p. 196:
Damage Rolls [...] If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them. For example, when a wizard casts fireball or a cleric casts flame strike, the spell's damage is rolled once for all creatures caught in the blast.
For AoE spells affected by Radiant Soult, I guess we need to roll damage first for one creature and then roll again for the remaining ones (if any)
Bonus question/thought: The Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer's Elemental Affinity feature would behave differently, right? I mean, for a fireball, Elemental Affinity would apply to all creatures, whereas Radiant Soul would only apply to one. Is it OK?
This seems mostly correct. Good catch about the difference in the wording for Radiant Soul -- the inclusion of the phrase "against one of its targets" makes this Feature quite a bit weaker than other Features which have a similar overall wording about modifying one damage roll.
You wouldn't roll damage for one creature and then roll again for remaining creatures though. You roll once as per the spell description. Then, you just apply the modifier to the damage for one "target".
Of course, if you are a DM like me who strongly believes that the correct interpretation for AoE spells is that AoE spells do not actually target creatures, then Radiant Soul becomes even worse -- it just wouldn't work at all for a spell like Fireball.
Of course, if you are a DM like me who strongly believes that the correct interpretation for AoE spells is that AoE spells do not actually target creatures, then Radiant Soul becomes even worse -- it just wouldn't work at all for a spell like Fireball.
Even though I agree with you that technically AoE's only targets the initial point in space it is a rule I am liberal in ignoring, the Fireball spell itself doesn't work if you apply it strictly so the question if Radiant Soul works with Fireball is a minor issue.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Simple question, would Radiant Soul from the Celestial Warlock add charisma damage to Flame Blade once per round, or would you only get it once for the whole casting of the spell?
I believe only one time you deal damage with Flame Blade you can add the Charisma modifier.
When dealing with a feature that alters a spell's damage roll(s), I find the easiest way to clearly see what the practical effect will be is to re-write the text of the spell including what the feature says it does as part of the text.
Examples:
Empowered evocation says you can add your intelligence modifier to one damage roll, so adding it to fireball would result in the following text; " A target takes 8d6 + your intelligence modifier fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one." Which is why the boost applies to every target - the "one roll" is for everyone.
Using the same feature on magic missile result in; "A dart deals 1d4 + 1 + your intelligence modifier force damage to its target." Which is why that spell, RAW, applies your damage bonus to each of the darts - they are "one damage roll" that is applied multiple times, not multiple damage rolls (I know a lot of folks are still rolling 1 die for each missile because that's what we are used to, but the rules as written are to roll a single die and use its result for every dart created).
Putting radiant soul (add your charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll) into flame blade results in this; "On a hit, the target takes 3d6 + your charisma modifier fire damage." Which is how it is clear that the bonus applies every time you manage to hit, because the spell only has one damage roll.
A spell has to have multiple damage rolls, like acid arrow does, in order to make features adding damage to one damage roll not apply to something.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
The answer is similar to the one explained here for Scorching Ray.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/28/scorching-ray-dd-errata/
Multiple attacks entail multiple damage roll and you can add the modifier only "once" per spell.
I sadly have to agree with filcat. Radiant Soul only applies to one roll on one target That includes fireballs. That means a flaming sphere only does bonus damage on the very first target it hits, a fireball only does it to one of the targets in the area, and green-flame blade only hits one of the 2 targets for bonus fire damage. Its a weak ability compared to some other classes.
On the upside 2024 Celestals can add agonizing to any cantrip, including green-flame blade. That applies to all damage rolls, so you'd get to add Cha to both the initial target, and the second target, and stack that with the Cha fire damage of Radiant Soul. Another good combo for agonzing would be Word of Radiance if you're able to gain the cantrip. Agonizing adds to all the targets +Cha, and you can add an extra +Cha from Radiant to one target hit you really want to finish off. Weaker damage than the other patron options to be sure, but then they did 'focus Celestials on support skills'.
I think that bolded sentence is right, but we have this rule in the PHB, p. 196:
For AoE spells affected by Radiant Soult, I guess we need to roll damage first for one creature and then roll again for the remaining ones (if any)
Bonus question/thought: The Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer's Elemental Affinity feature would behave differently, right? I mean, for a fireball, Elemental Affinity would apply to all creatures, whereas Radiant Soul would only apply to one. Is it OK?
This seems mostly correct. Good catch about the difference in the wording for Radiant Soul -- the inclusion of the phrase "against one of its targets" makes this Feature quite a bit weaker than other Features which have a similar overall wording about modifying one damage roll.
You wouldn't roll damage for one creature and then roll again for remaining creatures though. You roll once as per the spell description. Then, you just apply the modifier to the damage for one "target".
Of course, if you are a DM like me who strongly believes that the correct interpretation for AoE spells is that AoE spells do not actually target creatures, then Radiant Soul becomes even worse -- it just wouldn't work at all for a spell like Fireball.
Even though I agree with you that technically AoE's only targets the initial point in space it is a rule I am liberal in ignoring, the Fireball spell itself doesn't work if you apply it strictly so the question if Radiant Soul works with Fireball is a minor issue.