Thief gets an ability at Rogue level 13 that lets them use any spell scroll, but a spell of 2nd level or higher needs to pass an arcana check.
Also I believe Spell Scrolls are DMG, so not released yet for 2024, tho I think initial copies are being handed out for review purposes, so I haven't validated them myself as yet.
In the new Rules it is writen "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time"
For me that means Classes like Barbarians, Monks, most Rogue Subclasses etc. cant use them at all, because they dont have a Spell List.
At the same time tho, a lot of DND "mechanic abuse" Youtubers talk about the Thief Rogue using 2 of them in one Turn and being OP because of that.
Would be interrested how other DMs Rule this.
I've always ruled it like it says in the book - you can only cast the spell if it's on your class's spell list. Non-spellcasting classes have plenty of magic items they can use.
Worth pointing out, also, that Thief Rogues cannot use two spell scrolls in one turn anyway, since the Thief's "Fast Hands" ability only allows them to use a non-magical item as a bonus action.
[...] Worth pointing out, also, that Thief Rogues cannot use two spell scrolls in one turn anyway, since the Thief's "Fast Hands" ability only allows them to use a non-magical item as a bonus action.
Mmm... is that true?
Level 3: Fast Hands
As a Bonus Action, you can do one of the following.
Sleight of Hand. Make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to pick a lock or disarm a trap with Thieves’ Tools or to pick a pocket.
Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
[...] Worth pointing out, also, that Thief Rogues cannot use two spell scrolls in one turn anyway, since the Thief's "Fast Hands" ability only allows them to use a non-magical item as a bonus action.
Mmm... is that true?
Level 3: Fast Hands
As a Bonus Action, you can do one of the following.
Sleight of Hand. Make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to pick a lock or disarm a trap with Thieves’ Tools or to pick a pocket.
Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
Whoops, my mistake! That is a change in the 2024 rules.
I think one could still argue that they could only use a second one to cast a spell that normally takes a bonus action to cast, since a spell scroll doesn’t say it uses the Magic action, and says it uses the spell’s normal casting time.
[...] Worth pointing out, also, that Thief Rogues cannot use two spell scrolls in one turn anyway, since the Thief's "Fast Hands" ability only allows them to use a non-magical item as a bonus action.
Mmm... is that true?
Level 3: Fast Hands
As a Bonus Action, you can do one of the following.
Sleight of Hand. Make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to pick a lock or disarm a trap with Thieves’ Tools or to pick a pocket.
Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
Whoops, my mistake! That is a change in the 2024 rules.
I think one could still argue that they could only use a second one to cast a spell that normally takes a bonus action to cast, since a spell scroll doesn’t say it uses the Magic action, and says it uses the spell’s normal casting time.
According to the rules a "magic action" is a spell with a casting time of 1 action.
Casting Time
Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.
So a thief rogue can use a magic action, meaning a casting time of 1 action, as a bonus action for spell scrolls. Which in turns means they can use their normal action to also cast a spell with a magic action. 2 spell scrolls per turn.
I prefer to wait for the new 2024 DMG, but if the rules don't change, it seems to me that a scroll will consume the type of action based on the Casting Time. The same with the 2014 rules. We have this for now:
A Spell Scroll (Cantrip) or Spell Scroll (Level 1) is a magic item that bears the words of a cantrip or level 1 spell, respectively, determined by the scroll’s creator. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time and without providing any Material components.
If the spell requires a saving throw or an attack roll, the spell save DC is 13, and the attack bonus is +5. The scroll disintegrates when the casting is completed.
And the normal casting time is a Magic Action, unless it is a Bonus Action, Reaction, or a casting time of 1 minute or more.
I think all of those are still the Magic Action: the Magic Action as an Action, the Magic Action as a Bonus Action, the Magic Action as a Reaction, and using your Action to take the Magic Action every turn for 10 consecutive turns.
This is to say that any other rule that triggers off doing something with the Magic Action will still trigger even if you are doing that Magic Action as a Bonus Action (unless otherwise specifically restricted).
Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.
Most spells require a Magic action, If they don't don't, they require not a Magic action, but a Bonus Action, Reaction or a 1 minute or more. They make here a clear distinction between a Magic Action, which is a type of action used with your 1 main action each turn, an the rest. So, a thief rogue can use the Magic action as a bonus action, is like saying taking the Attack Action as a bonus action. A Magic action is a Magic action, and not any bonus action or reaction that uses magic. Same for the Attack action is the Attack action, and not any bonus action or reaction that allows an attack (like PAM, Dual Wilder or the Light property)
Capital M, Magic Action is not the same as an action used to do magic stuff.
The specific overrides the general rule, so the Thief specific using it as Bonus Action overrides the general one.
Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
MAGIC [ACTION] When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
SPELL SCROLL
...you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time
So a spell scroll with an Action spell casting time requires the Magic action, then Fast Hand feature can convert it to a Bonus Action one as is a Magic action from using an item.
As summary that feature means the Thief can do some things with the Bonus Action, just like Cunning Action with Dash or Disengage.
In the new Rules it is writen "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time"
For me that means Classes like Barbarians, Monks, most Rogue Subclasses etc. cant use them at all, because they dont have a Spell List.
At the same time tho, a lot of DND "mechanic abuse" Youtubers talk about the Thief Rogue using 2 of them in one Turn and being OP because of that.
Would be interrested how other DMs Rule this.
Thief gets an ability at Rogue level 13 that lets them use any spell scroll, but a spell of 2nd level or higher needs to pass an arcana check.
Also I believe Spell Scrolls are DMG, so not released yet for 2024, tho I think initial copies are being handed out for review purposes, so I haven't validated them myself as yet.
I've always ruled it like it says in the book - you can only cast the spell if it's on your class's spell list. Non-spellcasting classes have plenty of magic items they can use.
Worth pointing out, also, that Thief Rogues cannot use two spell scrolls in one turn anyway, since the Thief's "Fast Hands" ability only allows them to use a non-magical item as a bonus action.
pronouns: he/she/they
Mmm... is that true?
Whoops, my mistake! That is a change in the 2024 rules.
I think one could still argue that they could only use a second one to cast a spell that normally takes a bonus action to cast, since a spell scroll doesn’t say it uses the Magic action, and says it uses the spell’s normal casting time.
pronouns: he/she/they
According to the rules a "magic action" is a spell with a casting time of 1 action.
So a thief rogue can use a magic action, meaning a casting time of 1 action, as a bonus action for spell scrolls. Which in turns means they can use their normal action to also cast a spell with a magic action. 2 spell scrolls per turn.
I prefer to wait for the new 2024 DMG, but if the rules don't change, it seems to me that a scroll will consume the type of action based on the Casting Time. The same with the 2014 rules. We have this for now:
And the normal casting time is a Magic Action, unless it is a Bonus Action, Reaction, or a casting time of 1 minute or more.
I think all of those are still the Magic Action: the Magic Action as an Action, the Magic Action as a Bonus Action, the Magic Action as a Reaction, and using your Action to take the Magic Action every turn for 10 consecutive turns.
This is to say that any other rule that triggers off doing something with the Magic Action will still trigger even if you are doing that Magic Action as a Bonus Action (unless otherwise specifically restricted).
But it is specified in the spell rules quite clear.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/free-rules/spells#CastingTime
Most spells require a Magic action, If they don't don't, they require not a Magic action, but a Bonus Action, Reaction or a 1 minute or more. They make here a clear distinction between a Magic Action, which is a type of action used with your 1 main action each turn, an the rest. So, a thief rogue can use the Magic action as a bonus action, is like saying taking the Attack Action as a bonus action. A Magic action is a Magic action, and not any bonus action or reaction that uses magic. Same for the Attack action is the Attack action, and not any bonus action or reaction that allows an attack (like PAM, Dual Wilder or the Light property)
Capital M, Magic Action is not the same as an action used to do magic stuff.
@Enrif it's as you are saying, yes.
The specific overrides the general rule, so the Thief specific using it as Bonus Action overrides the general one.
So a spell scroll with an Action spell casting time requires the Magic action, then Fast Hand feature can convert it to a Bonus Action one as is a Magic action from using an item.
As summary that feature means the Thief can do some things with the Bonus Action, just like Cunning Action with Dash or Disengage.