Looking for clarification on the definition of casting a spell in regards to a couple pieces of text in the new 2024 player's handbook. I'm sure people will have opinion based on biases, but ultimately I'm wondering if WotC has provided clarification. The ruling favors either favors Wizards or else it favors Sorcerers depending on how the ruling goes, at least for these two examples. Both situations involve the 2024 version of Counterspell:
Counterspell You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. The creature makes a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the spell dissipates with no effect, and the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted. If that spell was cast with a spell slot, the slot isn’t expended.
The Question
What counts as casting a spell? Is it the initiation of a casting a spell? Is it the completion of casting a spell?
A ruling of Initiation favors the Wizard Class, a ruling of Completion favors the Sorcerer Class, both of which can be seen below.
Wizards incentive for a favorable ruling - Arcane Ward of the Abjuration Subclass. If casting means attempting to cast a spell, then counterspells from other casters can be used to charge the Arcane Ward feature without the wizard losing spell slots. Might be especially useful with a Countermagic magic item.
Level 3: Arcane Ward
You can weave magic around yourself for protection. When you cast an Abjuration spell with a spell slot, you can simultaneously use a strand of the spell’s magic to create a magical ward on yourself that lasts until you finish a Long Rest. The ward has a Hit Point maximum equal to twice your Wizard level plus your Intelligence modifier. Whenever you take damage, the ward takes the damage instead, and if you have any Resistances or Vulnerabilities, apply them before reducing the ward’s Hit Points. If the damage reduces the ward to 0 Hit Points, you take any remaining damage. While the ward has 0 Hit Points, it can’t absorb damage, but its magic remains.
Whenever you cast an Abjuration spell with a spell slot, the ward regains a number of Hit Points equal to twice the level of the spell slot. Alternatively, as a Bonus Action, you can expend a spell slot, and the ward regains a number of Hit Points equal to twice the level of the spell slot expended.
Once you create the ward, you can’t create it again until you finish a Long Rest.
Sorcerer's incentive for a favorable ruling - Metamagic Quickened Spell. If casting means completion of a spell, then counterspells successfully cast against sorcerers mean the limitation rider text within quickened spell isn't met and Sorcerer's can use the metamagic to cast through a successful counterspell at the cost of sorcery points and a bonus action.
Quickened Spell
Cost: 2 Sorcery Points
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to a Bonus Action for this casting. You can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a level 1+ spell on the current turn, nor can you cast a level 1+ spell on this turn after modifying a spell in this way.
Part of what makes things so interesting is the loss of action economy, yet the retention of the spell slot. If the ruling ends up being the initiation of a cast, then that potentially has implications regarding other situations or loss of action economy. If the ruling ends up being completion of a cast, then there's implications, but not necessarily around action economy.
Until an official ruling though, it's just best to check in with your table and see what the DM decides.
"In the process of casting a spell" as seen in the Counterspell spell description means that the spell casting process has not yet completed.
I think that it would be helpful to review what is actually happening when a spell is cast so that the terminology involved is less confusing.
To paraphrase:
A spellcaster casts a spell AT his location by expending any resources that are necessary to cast it (action economy, spell components, etc.), which creates an instance of the spell. The spell's energy is released FROM the spellcaster TO the target of the spell (within Range, along a clear path), where the spell's effect erupts into existence.
The casting of the spell has completed just before the spell's energy is released. This timing is confirmed by the Ready Action:
When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn. If your Concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect.
We can see from this timing that the spell has been fully cast before the spell's energy is released and before it takes effect by erupting into existence. But since it has already been cast, the spell dissipates (the spell slot is lost).
In the case of Counterspell, you must execute your Counterspell before this occurs. But since the spell is interrupted before it has been fully cast, that spell caster keeps his spell slot. The completion of the spellcasting process is what burns the spell slot.
If "casting a spell" meant "the initiation of casting a spell", then Counterspell would do nothing. There would be nothing to interrupt because the action of "casting a spell" would be completed as soon as it started. So casting a spell is completing the action.
The Arcane Ward example doesn't even care about initiation vs completion. The ward is created when you cast an Abjuration spell with a spell slot. If it gets counterspelled then the spell slot wasn't used and therefore the condition of the ward wasn't met.
As for an official ruling, as far as I know there isn't one, and I doubt there will ever be one. I don't think many people have this issue. I doubt many people, if at all, check with their table and wonder what the DM will decide. Most people would rule it the most obvious way. If an action wasn't completed, that action wasn't performed. "Did you read The Lord of the Rings?" "I started reading it, but never finished it." "Then you didn't read it." It doesn't need to be more complicated than this.
You could still try to ask Jeremy Crawford directly. It won't be an official ruling, but you could use it to decide how you want to rule it.
Overthinking is relentless... I came across this question on RPG Stack Overflow yesterday and felt I had to share it with my friends here. It's amusing..
Overthinking is relentless... I came across this question on RPG Stack Overflow yesterday and felt I had to share it with my friends here. It's amusing..
Looking for clarification on the definition of casting a spell in regards to a couple pieces of text in the new 2024 player's handbook. I'm sure people will have opinion based on biases, but ultimately I'm wondering if WotC has provided clarification. The ruling favors either favors Wizards or else it favors Sorcerers depending on how the ruling goes, at least for these two examples. Both situations involve the 2024 version of Counterspell:
Counterspell
You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. The creature makes a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the spell dissipates with no effect, and the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted. If that spell was cast with a spell slot, the slot isn’t expended.
The Question
What counts as casting a spell? Is it the initiation of a casting a spell? Is it the completion of casting a spell?
A ruling of Initiation favors the Wizard Class, a ruling of Completion favors the Sorcerer Class, both of which can be seen below.
Wizards incentive for a favorable ruling - Arcane Ward of the Abjuration Subclass. If casting means attempting to cast a spell, then counterspells from other casters can be used to charge the Arcane Ward feature without the wizard losing spell slots. Might be especially useful with a Countermagic magic item.
Level 3: Arcane Ward
You can weave magic around yourself for protection. When you cast an Abjuration spell with a spell slot, you can simultaneously use a strand of the spell’s magic to create a magical ward on yourself that lasts until you finish a Long Rest. The ward has a Hit Point maximum equal to twice your Wizard level plus your Intelligence modifier. Whenever you take damage, the ward takes the damage instead, and if you have any Resistances or Vulnerabilities, apply them before reducing the ward’s Hit Points. If the damage reduces the ward to 0 Hit Points, you take any remaining damage. While the ward has 0 Hit Points, it can’t absorb damage, but its magic remains.
Whenever you cast an Abjuration spell with a spell slot, the ward regains a number of Hit Points equal to twice the level of the spell slot. Alternatively, as a Bonus Action, you can expend a spell slot, and the ward regains a number of Hit Points equal to twice the level of the spell slot expended.
Once you create the ward, you can’t create it again until you finish a Long Rest.
Sorcerer's incentive for a favorable ruling - Metamagic Quickened Spell. If casting means completion of a spell, then counterspells successfully cast against sorcerers mean the limitation rider text within quickened spell isn't met and Sorcerer's can use the metamagic to cast through a successful counterspell at the cost of sorcery points and a bonus action.
Quickened Spell
Cost: 2 Sorcery Points
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to a Bonus Action for this casting. You can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a level 1+ spell on the current turn, nor can you cast a level 1+ spell on this turn after modifying a spell in this way.
Part of what makes things so interesting is the loss of action economy, yet the retention of the spell slot. If the ruling ends up being the initiation of a cast, then that potentially has implications regarding other situations or loss of action economy. If the ruling ends up being completion of a cast, then there's implications, but not necessarily around action economy.
Until an official ruling though, it's just best to check in with your table and see what the DM decides.
"In the process of casting a spell" as seen in the Counterspell spell description means that the spell casting process has not yet completed.
I think that it would be helpful to review what is actually happening when a spell is cast so that the terminology involved is less confusing.
To paraphrase:
A spellcaster casts a spell AT his location by expending any resources that are necessary to cast it (action economy, spell components, etc.), which creates an instance of the spell. The spell's energy is released FROM the spellcaster TO the target of the spell (within Range, along a clear path), where the spell's effect erupts into existence.
The casting of the spell has completed just before the spell's energy is released. This timing is confirmed by the Ready Action:
We can see from this timing that the spell has been fully cast before the spell's energy is released and before it takes effect by erupting into existence. But since it has already been cast, the spell dissipates (the spell slot is lost).
In the case of Counterspell, you must execute your Counterspell before this occurs. But since the spell is interrupted before it has been fully cast, that spell caster keeps his spell slot. The completion of the spellcasting process is what burns the spell slot.
If "casting a spell" meant "the initiation of casting a spell", then Counterspell would do nothing. There would be nothing to interrupt because the action of "casting a spell" would be completed as soon as it started. So casting a spell is completing the action.
The Arcane Ward example doesn't even care about initiation vs completion. The ward is created when you cast an Abjuration spell with a spell slot. If it gets counterspelled then the spell slot wasn't used and therefore the condition of the ward wasn't met.
As for an official ruling, as far as I know there isn't one, and I doubt there will ever be one. I don't think many people have this issue. I doubt many people, if at all, check with their table and wonder what the DM will decide. Most people would rule it the most obvious way. If an action wasn't completed, that action wasn't performed. "Did you read The Lord of the Rings?" "I started reading it, but never finished it." "Then you didn't read it." It doesn't need to be more complicated than this.
You could still try to ask Jeremy Crawford directly. It won't be an official ruling, but you could use it to decide how you want to rule it.
Overthinking is relentless... I came across this question on RPG Stack Overflow yesterday and felt I had to share it with my friends here. It's amusing..
Can I counter an opponent's attempt to counter my own spell?
Omg, this is actually pretty funny. :P