Hello, I am having some issues with the new 2024 Paladin Divine Smite and was hoping for some clarification.
The other night there our paladin hit a beautiful crit and we were a little hesitant on the rule. To expedite combat, when he rolled his divine smite we just doubled it and called it a day (like in 2014 rules) as the Divine Smite back then - though triggered after a hit- was considered Weapon Damage.
Am I correct in assuming that
1) The rule has not changed, 2) It's just the expression of the words causing me confusion here?
PHB 2014 Divine Smite (Underline for Emphasis)
Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend, to a maximum of 6d8.
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PHB 2024 Divine Smite (Underline for Emphasis)
Level
1st
Casting Time
1 Bonus Action *
Range/Area
Self
Components
V
Duration
Instantaneous
School
Evocation
Attack/Save
None
Damage/Effect
Radiant
The target takes an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is a Fiend or an Undead.
Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The damage increases by 1d8 for each spell slot level above 1.
* - Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike
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The ruling for a Critical Hit states (Underline for Emphasis):
If you roll a 20 on the d20 for an attack roll, you score a Critical Hit, and the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC. A Critical Hit lets you roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers.
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D&D DM Info - Here Discord: ItsScottish#0001 Platform: FoundryVTT Steak: Rare
@ItsScottish_ recently, a couple of threads were discussing the meaning of "extra" or "increase" in the rules. If this is helpful for your table in any way, here are the links to those threads:
In the spell descriptions, "increase" is used when adding more damage of the same type, while "extra" is used for adding damage of a different type, but the damage is rolled together. "Extra" means "additional," not "separate". E.g. Smite spells are good examples.
This differentiation is used in Green-Flame Blade (your argument 3):
At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 fire damage to the target on a hit, and the fire damage to the second creature increases to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier.
So "deals an extra 1d8 fire damage" because before that "the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects". And "the fire damage to the second creature increases" because before that "The second creature takes fire damage".
The same with Critical Hits, for example:
A Critical Hit lets you roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target. Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together.
Even for Sneak Attack, we have this sentence to explain how the additional (not separate) damage type behaves: "The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type."
And from the Dev, where it's mentioned Divine Smite too:
@quadhund If I make 1 attack with a longsword as a part of casting Green Flame Blade, while having the Hex spell affecting the target, and then I use Divine Smite once the attack hits, how many damage rolls are there? @JeremyECrawford When something in the game (Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, hex, etc.) causes your attack/spell/etc. to deal extra dice of damage, those dice are added to the damage the effect is already dealing, if any. It's one big damage roll, extra damage included. @DaveWil33 Would only be a second damage roll if there was something locked behind a save like poison damage, yes? @JeremyECrawford If an attack has a damage roll but also a second damage roll (not extra damage) that is contingent on a saving throw, the damage of that second source is a different damage roll from the first. @RubiksMoose how do you distinguish between second damage roll and extra damage? @JeremyECrawford Separate damage rolls are delivered by separate attack rolls, saving throws, or other processes. Extra/bonus/additional damage is called extra/bonus/additional damage.
Hello, I am having some issues with the new 2024 Paladin Divine Smite and was hoping for some clarification.
The other night there our paladin hit a beautiful crit and we were a little hesitant on the rule.
To expedite combat, when he rolled his divine smite we just doubled it and called it a day (like in 2014 rules) as the Divine Smite back then - though triggered after a hit- was considered Weapon Damage.
Am I correct in assuming that
1) The rule has not changed,
2) It's just the expression of the words causing me confusion here?
PHB 2014 Divine Smite (Underline for Emphasis)
PHB 2024 Divine Smite (Underline for Emphasis)
D&D DM Info - Here
Discord: ItsScottish#0001
Platform: FoundryVTT
Steak: Rare
Yes, the rules for this interaction (EDIT: I mean between weapon's damage and Divine Smite) are the same.
The extra damage from the Smite is added to the weapon's damage and rolled together.
And then you follow the Critical Hit rules if that's the case.
The biggest difference to 2014 rules is it now requires a bonus action meaning
Another minor nerf is it requires a vocal component so if the area is under a silence spell you can not divine smite.
@ItsScottish_ recently, a couple of threads were discussing the meaning of "extra" or "increase" in the rules. If this is helpful for your table in any way, here are the links to those threads:
This text is mine from the first thread:
And from the Dev, where it's mentioned Divine Smite too:
Yes.
The relevant bit is that a crit doubles the attack's damage dice, not just the weapon's. This pulls in all the abilities that throw dice into the pot.