Help me understand this. Looking at the chart in Chapter 2 of the 2024 PHB it looks like taking 7 levels in Artificer and 1 level in Paladin gives you level 3 spell slots, which is 1 level earlier than you'd normally get them as a pure Artificer or Paladin.
Paladin 1 /2 = 0.5 (round up) ----> 1
Artificer 7 /2 = 3.5 (round up) ----> 4
Total Level for calculating spell slots = 5
Is that correct? I know that isn't a big deal, but I just want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.
At least in DDB, considering a Paladin 1 / Ranger 7, the character is a Multiclass Spellcaster level 5. Doing the math: 1/2 + 7/2 = 1 + 4 = level 5, instead of (1+7)/2 = level 4.
So you'd have four level 1 spell slots, three level 2 slots, and two level 3 slots.
Just to add it was the same in 2014 (rounding down with those rules), so for example Ranger 3 / Paladin 5 would be 3/2 + 5/2 = 1 + 2 = level 3, instead of (3+5)/2 = level 4.
Same case for 2024: 3/2 + 5/2 = 2 + 3 = level 5, instead of (3+5)/2 = level 4.
Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together the following:
All your levels in the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard classes
Half your levels (round up) in the Paladin and Ranger classes
One third of your Fighter or Rogue levels (round down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster subclass.
Then look up this total level in the Level column of the Multiclass Spellcaster table.
Ace says that the totaling of both classes happens before you divide by 2, but Tarod says it happens after. I need more input because that's the different between getting 3rd level spells early and not.
[...] Ace says that the totaling of both classes happens before you divide by 2, but Tarod says it happens after. I need more input because that's the different between getting 3rd level spells early and not.
While not official ruling, this is from the Dev (EDIT: using the 2014) (link to sageadvice.eu), but as I said, the way Ace explained it's also one way of understanding the rules.
@JeremyECrawford Multiclass spell slots: divide levels in paladin, ranger, fighter (Eldritch Knight), or rogue (Arcane Trickster) and then add them. @drakus1111 I think what he's asking is when to round down: immediately after dividing and before adding, or at the end? @JeremyECrawford Multiclass spell slots: when dividing the levels of multiple classes, you divide, round down, and then add the results together.
Ace says that the totaling of both classes happens before you divide by 2, but Tarod says it happens after. I need more input because that's the different between getting 3rd level spells early and not.
Also, it depends on what you mean by "getting 3rd level spells early". If you are talking about just being able to upcast a lower-level spell, then maybe, depending on which above ruling you use. However . . .
Even if you went with a ruling that gives your Level 7/1 half-caster character access to Level 3 spell slots with totals for each level of 4/3/2 . . . You still use the following rule to determine which spells you can actually prepare:
Spells Prepared. You determine what spells you can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a level 4 Ranger / level 3 Sorcerer, for example, you can prepare five level 1 Ranger spells, and you can prepare six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 (as well as four Sorcerer cantrips).
You're right that you'd get 3rd level slots early.
Each class is tracked individually for spell slot progression when multiclassing.
(From Basic Rules)
Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together the following:
All your levels in the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard classes
Half your levels (round up) in the Paladin and Ranger classes
One third of your Fighter or Rogue levels (round down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster subclass.
(From Artificer)
Spell Slots. Add half your levels (rounded up) in the artificer class to the appropriate levels from other classes to determine your available spell slots.
This means that a multiclass of Artificer 1 / Paladin 1 / Ranger 1 would have the spell slots of a 3rd level character. However, they wouldn't get any more for continuing in any of these classes for the next level of any of them as a trade-off. Additionally, they all only get 1st-level spells, because spell preparation is handled separately between the classes, not based on your total slots as a multiclass character.
[...] Ace says that the totaling of both classes happens before you divide by 2, but Tarod says it happens after. I need more input because that's the different between getting 3rd level spells early and not.
While not official ruling, this is from the Dev (EDIT: using the 2014) (link to sageadvice.eu), but as I said, the way Ace explained it's also one way of understanding the rules.
@JeremyECrawford Multiclass spell slots: divide levels in paladin, ranger, fighter (Eldritch Knight), or rogue (Arcane Trickster) and then add them. @drakus1111 I think what he's asking is when to round down: immediately after dividing and before adding, or at the end? @JeremyECrawford Multiclass spell slots: when dividing the levels of multiple classes, you divide, round down, and then add the results together.
Looks like this is both RAW and RAI then. Thanks for the extra information.
Ace says that the totaling of both classes happens before you divide by 2, but Tarod says it happens after. I need more input because that's the different between getting 3rd level spells early and not.
Also, it depends on what you mean by "getting 3rd level spells early". If you are talking about just being able to upcast a lower-level spell, then maybe, depending on which above ruling you use. However . . .
Even if you went with a ruling that gives your Level 7/1 half-caster character access to Level 3 spell slots with totals for each level of 4/3/2 . . . You still use the following rule to determine which spells you can actually prepare:
Spells Prepared. You determine what spells you can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a level 4 Ranger / level 3 Sorcerer, for example, you can prepare five level 1 Ranger spells, and you can prepare six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 (as well as four Sorcerer cantrips).
Ah, sorry. I meant 3rd Level SPELL SLOTS. Well aware that spell progression is different from spell slot progression. Unfortunately.
Help me understand this. Looking at the chart in Chapter 2 of the 2024 PHB it looks like taking 7 levels in Artificer and 1 level in Paladin gives you level 3 spell slots, which is 1 level earlier than you'd normally get them as a pure Artificer or Paladin.
Total Level for calculating spell slots = 5
Is that correct? I know that isn't a big deal, but I just want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.
I believe the intent is that you take your net half caster levels and then divide by 2, rather than divide each individual value by 2.
At least in DDB, considering a Paladin 1 / Ranger 7, the character is a Multiclass Spellcaster level 5. Doing the math: 1/2 + 7/2 = 1 + 4 = level 5, instead of (1+7)/2 = level 4.
So you'd have four level 1 spell slots, three level 2 slots, and two level 3 slots.
IMHO, the rules can be interpreted this way too.
EDIT: for clarity.
Just to add it was the same in 2014 (rounding down with those rules), so for example Ranger 3 / Paladin 5 would be 3/2 + 5/2 = 1 + 2 = level 3, instead of (3+5)/2 = level 4.
Same case for 2024: 3/2 + 5/2 = 2 + 3 = level 5, instead of (3+5)/2 = level 4.
EDIT: typo.
Two different responses. Yay.
The 2024 PHB says:
Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together the following:
Then look up this total level in the Level column of the Multiclass Spellcaster table.
Ace says that the totaling of both classes happens before you divide by 2, but Tarod says it happens after. I need more input because that's the different between getting 3rd level spells early and not.
Sorry, mate :(
While not official ruling, this is from the Dev (EDIT: using the 2014) (link to sageadvice.eu), but as I said, the way Ace explained it's also one way of understanding the rules.
Imo the approach that mirrors the spell slot progression of a single class half caster is the RAI result of multiclassing two different half casters.
Also, it depends on what you mean by "getting 3rd level spells early". If you are talking about just being able to upcast a lower-level spell, then maybe, depending on which above ruling you use. However . . .
Even if you went with a ruling that gives your Level 7/1 half-caster character access to Level 3 spell slots with totals for each level of 4/3/2 . . . You still use the following rule to determine which spells you can actually prepare:
You're right that you'd get 3rd level slots early.
Each class is tracked individually for spell slot progression when multiclassing.
This means that a multiclass of Artificer 1 / Paladin 1 / Ranger 1 would have the spell slots of a 3rd level character. However, they wouldn't get any more for continuing in any of these classes for the next level of any of them as a trade-off. Additionally, they all only get 1st-level spells, because spell preparation is handled separately between the classes, not based on your total slots as a multiclass character.
I understand your point but my question was about RAW. Thanks for clarifying.
Looks like this is both RAW and RAI then. Thanks for the extra information.
Ah, sorry. I meant 3rd Level SPELL SLOTS. Well aware that spell progression is different from spell slot progression. Unfortunately.