As a DM, do you allow the players to know the spell before countering or not? I want to know the RAW if possible. Sure, i can rule it whatever you want buti just want to know before deciding.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
By RAW, no. There are rules in this section of Xanathar's Guide that handle identifying a spell that's being cast, but it takes a reaction, which reduces its helpfulness for counterspelling.
The only rule about identifying a spell while being cast is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. The character can use the reaction for an Arcana check against a DC equal to 15 + the spell’s level (advantage if the spell is on the character's class spell list).
Xanathars rules are optional, and written after counterspell, so cannot be necessary to understanding the spells function. After all, some parts of Xanathar optional rules conflict with and replace core rules, so you can’t always interpret core RAW through that lens.
I’m not sure that RAW it is answered either way in the core rules (on a phone, really really not sure unless someone has a citation), so it’s left to DM interpretation how that works. However, I would caution DMs against punishing players for preparing counterspell by making it be cast blind.
Does your DM allow you to say to him, “I cast a spell, monster has to make a Wis save DC 13”? Mine never does, he counters with “tell me what you’re casting”. If your DM is similar, you have a good argument for saying that he’s enforcing a rule where monsters can tell what is being cast as it’s cast, and the players (or at least those versed in magic) should benefit from the same.
As far as RAW goes. You can usually recognise an action as casting a spell by the chanting of magic words and the waving about of hands, components, or foci (which is why subtle spell metamagic makes detecting spellcasting hard). But that is the only warning you get before the spell happens.
Even if using the Xanathar’s rules, if you blow your reaction to learn what the spell is, you cannot use another to counter it. You cannot find out what it is and counterspell it on the same turn according to Xanathar’s. I wouldn’t allow meta knowledge to influence your decision either. You’d have to decide if you are using counterspell before someone else finds out what the spell was.
According to the PHB, you might be able to improvise an action to determine what a spell is (if your dm is withholding that information). That is about it, and pretty essentially precludes learning what the spell is before deciding to counter.
But I don’t think every game is played that way, many DMs might let you know what is being cast.
I do not, I say that the caster is casting a spell and don't say what it is. If I get to the description about what happens before someone says they are counterspelling, then they can't counterspell. I also tell them that they shouldn't say what exactly they are casting until I have a chance to say if I am going to counterspell or not.
At my table, if the spell is really common then casters of that class will know it. For example, almost every spellcaster recognises fireball and magic missile. Clerics will recognise bless but not guilding bolt. Otherwise, a Reaction and a spellcasting ability check are needed.
Metagamingpigeon and greenstone_walker play by similar rules to how I have seen it, run it, had it run, etc.
you don’t announce what spell you’re casting unless the DM requests it. You just say you are going to cast a spell. He says what spell if he won’t counter. Then you say at X level.
dm does same way. He casts a spell. Waits 5 Mississippi, then proceeds to describe it, you have during that wait period to counter it.
if it’s a super common spell, he will say “you %#^#} recognize this spell.” Or on a spell we are casting “is it easily recognizable”
prior to the session he went through every class. Spell list etc. for what would be easily recognizable and to who.
fireball would not be as recognizable to say a necromancer as would animate dead. Etc.
he also allows the martial classes to “use their reaction” to identify a spell. (Low odds of success) and they can call it out.
which you know.. teamwork. Someone else can identify a spell, call it out, and the person countering can counter it or not. It’s up to them if they want to trust what spell the person thinks it is.
As a DM, I do allow the players to know what the monster is casting.
I do this mostly for speeding up play. I don't want to say "The monster is casting a spell! Do you counterspell it?" and get into a discussion of what exactly the monster is doing with their hands or components, or whether someone in the party does or doesn't have that spell in their class spell list, etc. I just say "Monster casts Sleep!" and if someone interrupts me and says "I counterspell!" that's fine.
By rules, I think the players would NOT necessarily know, and the DM should make a judgement call as to how difficult it is to find out. Maybe if it's a spell on the player's spell list they know it, if it's not they don't, or whatever makes sense.
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As a DM, do you allow the players to know the spell before countering or not? I want to know the RAW if possible. Sure, i can rule it whatever you want buti just want to know before deciding.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
By RAW, no. There are rules in this section of Xanathar's Guide that handle identifying a spell that's being cast, but it takes a reaction, which reduces its helpfulness for counterspelling.
The only rule about identifying a spell while being cast is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. The character can use the reaction for an Arcana check against a DC equal to 15 + the spell’s level (advantage if the spell is on the character's class spell list).
Xanathars rules are optional, and written after counterspell, so cannot be necessary to understanding the spells function. After all, some parts of Xanathar optional rules conflict with and replace core rules, so you can’t always interpret core RAW through that lens.
I’m not sure that RAW it is answered either way in the core rules (on a phone, really really not sure unless someone has a citation), so it’s left to DM interpretation how that works. However, I would caution DMs against punishing players for preparing counterspell by making it be cast blind.
Does your DM allow you to say to him, “I cast a spell, monster has to make a Wis save DC 13”? Mine never does, he counters with “tell me what you’re casting”. If your DM is similar, you have a good argument for saying that he’s enforcing a rule where monsters can tell what is being cast as it’s cast, and the players (or at least those versed in magic) should benefit from the same.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
As far as RAW goes. You can usually recognise an action as casting a spell by the chanting of magic words and the waving about of hands, components, or foci (which is why subtle spell metamagic makes detecting spellcasting hard). But that is the only warning you get before the spell happens.
Even if using the Xanathar’s rules, if you blow your reaction to learn what the spell is, you cannot use another to counter it. You cannot find out what it is and counterspell it on the same turn according to Xanathar’s. I wouldn’t allow meta knowledge to influence your decision either. You’d have to decide if you are using counterspell before someone else finds out what the spell was.
According to the PHB, you might be able to improvise an action to determine what a spell is (if your dm is withholding that information). That is about it, and pretty essentially precludes learning what the spell is before deciding to counter.
But I don’t think every game is played that way, many DMs might let you know what is being cast.
I do not, I say that the caster is casting a spell and don't say what it is. If I get to the description about what happens before someone says they are counterspelling, then they can't counterspell. I also tell them that they shouldn't say what exactly they are casting until I have a chance to say if I am going to counterspell or not.
At my table, if the spell is really common then casters of that class will know it. For example, almost every spellcaster recognises fireball and magic missile. Clerics will recognise bless but not guilding bolt. Otherwise, a Reaction and a spellcasting ability check are needed.
Metagamingpigeon and greenstone_walker play by similar rules to how I have seen it, run it, had it run, etc.
you don’t announce what spell you’re casting unless the DM requests it. You just say you are going to cast a spell. He says what spell if he won’t counter. Then you say at X level.
dm does same way. He casts a spell. Waits 5 Mississippi, then proceeds to describe it, you have during that wait period to counter it.
if it’s a super common spell, he will say “you %#^#} recognize this spell.” Or on a spell we are casting “is it easily recognizable”
prior to the session he went through every class. Spell list etc. for what would be easily recognizable and to who.
fireball would not be as recognizable to say a necromancer as would animate dead. Etc.
he also allows the martial classes to “use their reaction” to identify a spell. (Low odds of success) and they can call it out.
which you know.. teamwork. Someone else can identify a spell, call it out, and the person countering can counter it or not. It’s up to them if they want to trust what spell the person thinks it is.
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As a DM, I do allow the players to know what the monster is casting.
I do this mostly for speeding up play. I don't want to say "The monster is casting a spell! Do you counterspell it?" and get into a discussion of what exactly the monster is doing with their hands or components, or whether someone in the party does or doesn't have that spell in their class spell list, etc. I just say "Monster casts Sleep!" and if someone interrupts me and says "I counterspell!" that's fine.
By rules, I think the players would NOT necessarily know, and the DM should make a judgement call as to how difficult it is to find out. Maybe if it's a spell on the player's spell list they know it, if it's not they don't, or whatever makes sense.