We've just started playing D&D (and loving it) and I'm now a third lvl wizard. So I picked rope trick as one of my 2nd lvl spells because it seems to be a flexible spell. I've had some ideas on how to use it, but the wording of the spell is a bit vague so I ain't sure if it's all possible.
Use 1: the obvious Use it as an escape/hide-out. Cast it, climb the rope and hide until the danger has passed. For quick getaways I'd cut my 50-foot rope into a small piece of 5 feet and cast it on that. Later we'd mend the rope back together. No questions about this.
Use 2: orbital bombardment from within: Cast rope trick, climb up, watch enemies pass below and drop objects (stones, short swords, other debris) through the opening. The rules say you can't attack through the dimensional barrrier. But given the description of the space (The space can hold as many as eight Medium or smaller creatures. The rope can be pulled into the space, making the rope disappear from view outside the space. Attacks and spells can't cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5- foot window centered on the rope.) I envision the space as a 3x3 square with a hole in the middle where the rope dangles (or is being pulled up). While this hole is invisible and you can't attack through it, it's still a hole, so if you hold an object above it and drop it, it will fall. Question 1: does this seem legit? Question 2: what kind of damage would it do (would probably depend on the height of the space from the floor (i.e. the lenght of the rope) and I'd guess there'd be a DEX save involved with a DC that rises together with the height (the higher up you are, the faster the speed of the object when it hits the ground)?
Use 3: orbital bombardment from without: Cast rope trick, climb up, fill her up with rocks, debris and whatnot and when the spell ends, make sure there are enemies below. Because "Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends". So if my vision of the space is correct, suddenly I've created a whole area of (at most) 15ftx15ft that's being bombarded. The middle of the square would be excempt because items won't stay there (there's a hole there after all). Question 1: Do I need to wait the whole duration of the spell before it dissipiates or can I end it early on my command (as it is my spell and all)? Question 2: How much debris could each square of the space hold and how much damage would it do per square
Use 4: the flying saucer: I've been wondering about combining tensers floating disk with rope trick. But I'm unsure about what happens when I cast the spell within the dimensional space. Question 1: If i cast the spell and leave the space, do I measure distance from the disk as simply the distance that I'm at from the entrace to the space (for sake of the dispell the spell once you're 100 feet away) or does leaving another dimension immediatly count as being too far away to maintain the spell. Question 2: If the spell is maintained, would the disk follow me through the opening (and potentially drop on my head if I'm climbing down)? Or would it stay put? Question 3: Assuming the disk is still in the space when rope trick ends (either because I'm on the disk in the space or because the rules allow me to be within 100 feet), the disk is ejected. It's now floating high in the sky. Would it drop or dissipiate because "it can’t cross an elevation change of 10 feet or more"? Question 4: assume I've cast rope trick on a tiny rope (less then 7 feet) and the floating disk within. We're standing on the disk, enemies are below the space and rope trick ends. Does the disk drop on the enemies below (and allow a nice entrance for us) or does it hover 3 feet above their heads?
Those are some pretty offensive uses. Use 1 is as written. Use 2: I’m of the opinion that if attacks are disallowed by some effect, improvised attacks should be as well. No attacks means no attacks. Use 3: same as above. The things inside themselves take fall damage, but they are so easily avoidable that no one below does. No attacks means no attacks. Use 4: Many questions without an obvious purpose. I would say that the spell fails any time it is >10 ft above the ground of the plane that it is on or on a different plane than you (whether or not the door is open). And again, no matter how you decide, no attacks means no attacks. Your disk can do whatever, except attack your enemies starting from inside the rope trick. There are no provisions for making an attack with the disk anyway.
It being an "extradimensional space" means it is a space beyond the physical realities of the universe. Ie, there's no reason to assume gravity, or any other physical law, functions in that space. The limitations of the spell are broad, yet pretty clear; whatever happens outside doesn't affect the inside, and vice versa.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Far easier for use number 2 is to have two people inside the space.
Person 1: Hold my legs! Person 2: OK Person 1: leans their upper body halfway through the opening, anchored by Person 2, slings spells or arrows at targets (since the attacks now originate from outside the extradimensional pocket), and then pops back up into the hidey-hole.
Thanks for your input all. I agree it with some of your points but can't find the logic in all. I'll try to explain why and hope on some further insights (to either be swayed by your opinion or be able to sway you around)
Use 2: Can't work as described. My understanding of the demiplane was faulty in believing there is a permanent opening that can be used by everybody (even while it's invisible). I'm seeing it now more like there is no opening unless you're touching the rope. And only those touching the rope can cross the boundary. So even when you're trying to be smart by touching the rope with one hand and holding a rock in the other, the moment you drop the rock it's no longer touching you who is touching the rope and so it can't cross the boundary. And even if you were to put your free hand through the boundary to drop the rock in the real space (let's assume the prime material) it would be one tiny object and quite easy to avoid.
Use 3: I disagree that it would count as an attack from inside the space. Simply because the "attack" begins when the spell ends and everything inside the demiplane drops out. So there is no crossing the entrance. When the attack begins, both the attacker and attacked are in the same plane when it begins and gravity would do the rest (assuming prime material plane and no reverse gravity spells or anything fancy). I did not take into account falling damage to the object, so best not to use something with a decent selling value. Simple rocks of a few pounds you pick up would do (although it is tempting to use an Anvil just once for the look on the face of the poor fellow below who'se about to be looney tune'd). I agree it would be feasible to avoid one such object. But if you pack the space full of piles of rock, I can't see somebody avoiding all of those within a 5ft square. Now wether this is a usefull use of the spell depends on the following: -Once the spell ends everything inside "drops out". There is no explanation in the spell of where they drop out. Does everything inside drop out in the prime material relative to where they where inside the demiplane (as far as possible) or do they get "spat out" through where the opening used to be? In the first case you've got an area of roughly 15ftx15ft that's being bombarded. In the second case only a 5ft square (or even less). -Can the caster end the spell prematurely (when something is walking under the spell/entrace) or does it only end once the duration is over/it's dispelled by another spell?
Use 4: Reading the rules for the floating disk, I'm still not sure what happens when the disk suddenly finds itself in an elevation of 10 feet or more. If I'd follow the rules to the letter I'd say it would stay there permanently until dispelled (it can't cross the elevation so it can't move, either lower or higher). And it would only be dispelled by magic/once the duration is over/once the caster is more then 100 feet away (which should be easy now that the disk is stuck in place). It would make sense that being in another plane from the disk counts as being more then 100 feet away (well, as much as planar travell, distances and sense can work together, but if I assume otherwise it's going to be a long discussion without end:) ). That would mean you could combine rope trick and tensers floating disk to create a temporary stationary disk in the air (up to 63 feet), but the uses for that are a bit limited as it requires you to be in the demiplane untill rope trick ends which limits it use that high up. (combining it with feather fall and some debris or anvils, you'd still be able to use it for bombardment by walking away the last 37 feet once an enemy is below it, but the area of effect is limited to an area with a 3 feet diameter, which is a bit too convoluted to use two 1st and one 2nd lvl spell slot on) Because it stays fixed, it obviously can't attack, even by falling (because it wouldn't). It could still be used as a means to leave the demiplane relatively safely if you know there is an enemy camping you out below the rope trick. You'd appear above them with a solid force disk between them and you, so no readied attacks or easy access. Only other offensive use I could think of is casting rope trick with a 5 inch rope, casting tensers floating disk inside and dispelling rope trick when an enemy of more then 3 feet and 5 inch is in the space of the rope trick and hoping to decapitate them with the disk. But most likely the disk would be "shunted" upwards or to the side as to not overlap with an object or obstacle.
Use Maestrino: It would work, probably at least once because the DM thinks it's amusing/creative. But I can easily see you having disadvantage on the attack role or even needing to throw an extra dice to see if your spell hits your intended target (what with hanging upside down and all). And trying to repeat this trick would most likely cause the DM to start having a lot of ranged enemies with a readied attack at hand that are willing to make a pincushion out of you the moment you hang upside down out of the dimensional space (and them having advantage on their attack roles as you're a "hanging duck").
Looking forward to your further thoughts on this. I've got no objection about being proven wrong, but it would be nice if it can be done with some sort of explanation (like the "having to hold on to the rope to be able to cross the boundary") that also makes it sound plausible without simply being "rules say no". It does help with the immersion after all.
Attacks and spells can't cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5- foot window centered on the rope.
My interpretation of this is strictly as it says. You cannot expect that someone outside of the space will be harmed by your actions inside. There is obvious intent that you are protected from attacks from your enemies while inside, but you cannot use it as a safe place from which to attack them. Anything you do to try to pile rules garbage on top of that sentence to try to obscure it is in my opinion cheese and shouldn't work.
D&D isn't a physics engine. It is a rules engine. You can make an argument about why something should work based on real world, but when there is a sentence that basically says "you can't do that" then you cannot.
But that sentence is immediately followed by the sentence "Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends."
Which means that you could use it to set up an ambush.
Besides, d&d is an exercise in imagination and inventiveness. Half the fun is trying to figure out creative ways to deal with problems (and somehow a lot of the problems involve killing things) within the boundaries of the game. And those boundaries are what I'm trying to figure out here.
You've made a compelling case for why it shouldn't be possible to attack by dropping things from within the dimensional space while the spell is active, but I disagree with your reasoning for why you couldn't use the contents of the space for an ambush when the spell ends.
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We've just started playing D&D (and loving it) and I'm now a third lvl wizard. So I picked rope trick as one of my 2nd lvl spells because it seems to be a flexible spell. I've had some ideas on how to use it, but the wording of the spell is a bit vague so I ain't sure if it's all possible.
Use 1: the obvious
Use it as an escape/hide-out. Cast it, climb the rope and hide until the danger has passed. For quick getaways I'd cut my 50-foot rope into a small piece of 5 feet and cast it on that. Later we'd mend the rope back together. No questions about this.
Use 2: orbital bombardment from within:
Cast rope trick, climb up, watch enemies pass below and drop objects (stones, short swords, other debris) through the opening.
The rules say you can't attack through the dimensional barrrier. But given the description of the space (The space can hold as many as eight Medium or smaller creatures. The rope can be pulled into the space, making the rope disappear from view outside the space. Attacks and spells can't cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5- foot window centered on the rope.) I envision the space as a 3x3 square with a hole in the middle where the rope dangles (or is being pulled up). While this hole is invisible and you can't attack through it, it's still a hole, so if you hold an object above it and drop it, it will fall.
Question 1: does this seem legit?
Question 2: what kind of damage would it do (would probably depend on the height of the space from the floor (i.e. the lenght of the rope) and I'd guess there'd be a DEX save involved with a DC that rises together with the height (the higher up you are, the faster the speed of the object when it hits the ground)?
Use 3: orbital bombardment from without:
Cast rope trick, climb up, fill her up with rocks, debris and whatnot and when the spell ends, make sure there are enemies below. Because "Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends". So if my vision of the space is correct, suddenly I've created a whole area of (at most) 15ftx15ft that's being bombarded. The middle of the square would be excempt because items won't stay there (there's a hole there after all).
Question 1: Do I need to wait the whole duration of the spell before it dissipiates or can I end it early on my command (as it is my spell and all)?
Question 2: How much debris could each square of the space hold and how much damage would it do per square
Use 4: the flying saucer:
I've been wondering about combining tensers floating disk with rope trick. But I'm unsure about what happens when I cast the spell within the dimensional space.
Question 1: If i cast the spell and leave the space, do I measure distance from the disk as simply the distance that I'm at from the entrace to the space (for sake of the dispell the spell once you're 100 feet away) or does leaving another dimension immediatly count as being too far away to maintain the spell.
Question 2: If the spell is maintained, would the disk follow me through the opening (and potentially drop on my head if I'm climbing down)? Or would it stay put?
Question 3: Assuming the disk is still in the space when rope trick ends (either because I'm on the disk in the space or because the rules allow me to be within 100 feet), the disk is ejected. It's now floating high in the sky. Would it drop or dissipiate because "it can’t cross an elevation change of 10 feet or more"?
Question 4: assume I've cast rope trick on a tiny rope (less then 7 feet) and the floating disk within. We're standing on the disk, enemies are below the space and rope trick ends. Does the disk drop on the enemies below (and allow a nice entrance for us) or does it hover 3 feet above their heads?
Thanks for your insights!
Those are some pretty offensive uses.
Use 1 is as written.
Use 2: I’m of the opinion that if attacks are disallowed by some effect, improvised attacks should be as well. No attacks means no attacks.
Use 3: same as above. The things inside themselves take fall damage, but they are so easily avoidable that no one below does. No attacks means no attacks.
Use 4: Many questions without an obvious purpose. I would say that the spell fails any time it is >10 ft above the ground of the plane that it is on or on a different plane than you (whether or not the door is open). And again, no matter how you decide, no attacks means no attacks. Your disk can do whatever, except attack your enemies starting from inside the rope trick. There are no provisions for making an attack with the disk anyway.
I’m not attacking. Gravity is attacking!
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It being an "extradimensional space" means it is a space beyond the physical realities of the universe. Ie, there's no reason to assume gravity, or any other physical law, functions in that space. The limitations of the spell are broad, yet pretty clear; whatever happens outside doesn't affect the inside, and vice versa.
"Rocks don't fall; nobody dies".
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Far easier for use number 2 is to have two people inside the space.
Person 1: Hold my legs!
Person 2: OK
Person 1: leans their upper body halfway through the opening, anchored by Person 2, slings spells or arrows at targets (since the attacks now originate from outside the extradimensional pocket), and then pops back up into the hidey-hole.
Thanks for your input all. I agree it with some of your points but can't find the logic in all. I'll try to explain why and hope on some further insights (to either be swayed by your opinion or be able to sway you around)
Use 2: Can't work as described. My understanding of the demiplane was faulty in believing there is a permanent opening that can be used by everybody (even while it's invisible). I'm seeing it now more like there is no opening unless you're touching the rope. And only those touching the rope can cross the boundary. So even when you're trying to be smart by touching the rope with one hand and holding a rock in the other, the moment you drop the rock it's no longer touching you who is touching the rope and so it can't cross the boundary. And even if you were to put your free hand through the boundary to drop the rock in the real space (let's assume the prime material) it would be one tiny object and quite easy to avoid.
Use 3: I disagree that it would count as an attack from inside the space. Simply because the "attack" begins when the spell ends and everything inside the demiplane drops out. So there is no crossing the entrance. When the attack begins, both the attacker and attacked are in the same plane when it begins and gravity would do the rest (assuming prime material plane and no reverse gravity spells or anything fancy).
I did not take into account falling damage to the object, so best not to use something with a decent selling value. Simple rocks of a few pounds you pick up would do (although it is tempting to use an Anvil just once for the look on the face of the poor fellow below who'se about to be looney tune'd).
I agree it would be feasible to avoid one such object. But if you pack the space full of piles of rock, I can't see somebody avoiding all of those within a 5ft square.
Now wether this is a usefull use of the spell depends on the following:
-Once the spell ends everything inside "drops out". There is no explanation in the spell of where they drop out. Does everything inside drop out in the prime material relative to where they where inside the demiplane (as far as possible) or do they get "spat out" through where the opening used to be? In the first case you've got an area of roughly 15ftx15ft that's being bombarded. In the second case only a 5ft square (or even less).
-Can the caster end the spell prematurely (when something is walking under the spell/entrace) or does it only end once the duration is over/it's dispelled by another spell?
Use 4: Reading the rules for the floating disk, I'm still not sure what happens when the disk suddenly finds itself in an elevation of 10 feet or more. If I'd follow the rules to the letter I'd say it would stay there permanently until dispelled (it can't cross the elevation so it can't move, either lower or higher). And it would only be dispelled by magic/once the duration is over/once the caster is more then 100 feet away (which should be easy now that the disk is stuck in place).
It would make sense that being in another plane from the disk counts as being more then 100 feet away (well, as much as planar travell, distances and sense can work together, but if I assume otherwise it's going to be a long discussion without end:) ).
That would mean you could combine rope trick and tensers floating disk to create a temporary stationary disk in the air (up to 63 feet), but the uses for that are a bit limited as it requires you to be in the demiplane untill rope trick ends which limits it use that high up. (combining it with feather fall and some debris or anvils, you'd still be able to use it for bombardment by walking away the last 37 feet once an enemy is below it, but the area of effect is limited to an area with a 3 feet diameter, which is a bit too convoluted to use two 1st and one 2nd lvl spell slot on)
Because it stays fixed, it obviously can't attack, even by falling (because it wouldn't).
It could still be used as a means to leave the demiplane relatively safely if you know there is an enemy camping you out below the rope trick. You'd appear above them with a solid force disk between them and you, so no readied attacks or easy access.
Only other offensive use I could think of is casting rope trick with a 5 inch rope, casting tensers floating disk inside and dispelling rope trick when an enemy of more then 3 feet and 5 inch is in the space of the rope trick and hoping to decapitate them with the disk. But most likely the disk would be "shunted" upwards or to the side as to not overlap with an object or obstacle.
Use Maestrino: It would work, probably at least once because the DM thinks it's amusing/creative. But I can easily see you having disadvantage on the attack role or even needing to throw an extra dice to see if your spell hits your intended target (what with hanging upside down and all). And trying to repeat this trick would most likely cause the DM to start having a lot of ranged enemies with a readied attack at hand that are willing to make a pincushion out of you the moment you hang upside down out of the dimensional space (and them having advantage on their attack roles as you're a "hanging duck").
Looking forward to your further thoughts on this. I've got no objection about being proven wrong, but it would be nice if it can be done with some sort of explanation (like the "having to hold on to the rope to be able to cross the boundary") that also makes it sound plausible without simply being "rules say no". It does help with the immersion after all.
You can ask your DM.
My interpretation of this is strictly as it says. You cannot expect that someone outside of the space will be harmed by your actions inside. There is obvious intent that you are protected from attacks from your enemies while inside, but you cannot use it as a safe place from which to attack them. Anything you do to try to pile rules garbage on top of that sentence to try to obscure it is in my opinion cheese and shouldn't work.
D&D isn't a physics engine. It is a rules engine. You can make an argument about why something should work based on real world, but when there is a sentence that basically says "you can't do that" then you cannot.
But that sentence is immediately followed by the sentence "Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends."
Which means that you could use it to set up an ambush.
Besides, d&d is an exercise in imagination and inventiveness. Half the fun is trying to figure out creative ways to deal with problems (and somehow a lot of the problems involve killing things) within the boundaries of the game. And those boundaries are what I'm trying to figure out here.
You've made a compelling case for why it shouldn't be possible to attack by dropping things from within the dimensional space while the spell is active, but I disagree with your reasoning for why you couldn't use the contents of the space for an ambush when the spell ends.