The player's book on Hail of Thorns says, "In addition to the normal effect of the attack, the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 1d10 piercing damage on a failed save , or half as much damage on a successful one. " this means that aoe effect can touch 8 squares around the square of the target, if the target is of medium size and 12 squares if the target is large? Implied the game on a grid of squares.
In general with 5th edition, if an effect would have special treatment for specific cases, it would mention them.
As it stands, Hail of Thorns affects each creature in its area, but doesn't affect any one creature more than once if its area overlaps.
DMs, of course, may rule otherwise - perhaps some extra damage (although I would think it would have diminishing returns), or perhaps disadvantage on the saving throw?
The player's book on Hail of Thorns says, "In addition to the normal effect of the attack, the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 1d10 piercing damage on a failed save , or half as much damage on a successful one. " this means that aoe effect can touch 8 squares around the square of the target, if the target is of medium size and 12 squares if the target is large? Implied the game on a grid of squares.
Thank you.
Yes, it will target more squares the larger the target is.
In general with 5th edition, if an effect would have special treatment for specific cases, it would mention them.
As it stands, Hail of Thorns affects each creature in its area, but doesn't affect any one creature more than once if its area overlaps.
DMs, of course, may rule otherwise - perhaps some extra damage (although I would think it would have diminishing returns), or perhaps disadvantage on the saving throw?
You seem to be answering a question he isn't asking.
Greetings again and thank you for your answers. Now I'm sure I understand how this spell works. In this case, perhaps you can help me fully understand the following. There is an Icy Knife spell. His description:
You create a shard of ice and fling it at one creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d10 piercing damage. Hit or miss, the shard then explodes. The target and each creature within 5 feet of the point where the ice exploded must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 cold damage.
At first I thought that the AOE effect (2d6 cold damage) should be propagated according to the rule specified on page 251 of the DMG:
"... Choose an intersection of squares or hex as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow its rules as normal. If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square"
I got that 2d6 damage will get the original target (square) and 3 more squares.
Picture:
Then I thought that the target of the spell is a creature, and if I hit, the effect should be like the Hail of Thorns spell. One five-foot square in all directions from where the original target stood, since the shard exploded from contact with it.
Picture:
black circle - monster, red cross - explosion point, painted squares - area of effect.
Then I spent a lot of time looking for an answer to this question on the Internet and eventually found the developer's answer - JeremyECrawford (Sage Advice) on Twitter on this question. He was asked: "is the spell Ice Knife treated at an AOE with a 5 foot radius or 5 feet around that?" His answer was - "Ice knife has a 5 ft. radius."
Unfortunately, there was no detailed answer. But I would like to understand this. Or maybe I'm missing something? I really hope for your help. Thank you!
Although the descriptions are quite similar, Hail of Thorns and Ice Knife have a difference.
Ice knife has a clear radius in the description (5 feet). And the description says: " The target and each creature within 5 feet of the point where the ice exploded ". So the point of origin and the area of effect are defined.
Hail of Thorns has "Self" as the range of application and the description says: " the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it ". So here every creature no more than 5 feet away from the target is affected by the spell.
Thanks for the answer. My mistake was that I did not look at the description of Ice Knife here. Now I see that the description says range / area (60ft / 5ft).
Can I use any intersection of the square in which the target is located?
In the end, do I understand correctly that if in the description of the spell it is written that he has a distance - "self" and the area - "xx ft", then the distance is counted as squares as when moving? Burning hands or Hail of Thorns
If the description says that the distance is "xx ft" and the area is "xx ft", then we need to use intersection of squares as the point of origin. Fireball
I understand that my questions go beyond the original topic. Do I need to create another topic with these questions?
Hello everyone!
The player's book on Hail of Thorns says, "In addition to the normal effect of the attack, the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 1d10 piercing damage on a failed save , or half as much damage on a successful one. " this means that aoe effect can touch 8 squares around the square of the target, if the target is of medium size and 12 squares if the target is large?
Implied the game on a grid of squares.
Thank you.
In general with 5th edition, if an effect would have special treatment for specific cases, it would mention them.
As it stands, Hail of Thorns affects each creature in its area, but doesn't affect any one creature more than once if its area overlaps.
DMs, of course, may rule otherwise - perhaps some extra damage (although I would think it would have diminishing returns), or perhaps disadvantage on the saving throw?
Aah, you're right. I misunderstood the question.
In which case, Torgoth's reply is spot on. If a creature is within 5 feet of any part of the primary target, it gets the potential secondary damage.
Compare with the Ranger's 11th level multiattack option "Volley" (PHB, pg 93) to contrast the wording.
Greetings again and thank you for your answers.
Now I'm sure I understand how this spell works. In this case, perhaps you can help me fully understand the following.
There is an Icy Knife spell. His description:
At first I thought that the AOE effect (2d6 cold damage) should be propagated according to the rule specified on page 251 of the DMG:
I got that 2d6 damage will get the original target (square) and 3 more squares.
Picture:
Then I thought that the target of the spell is a creature, and if I hit, the effect should be like the Hail of Thorns spell. One five-foot square in all directions from where the original target stood, since the shard exploded from contact with it.
Picture:
black circle - monster, red cross - explosion point, painted squares - area of effect.
Then I spent a lot of time looking for an answer to this question on the Internet and eventually found the developer's answer - JeremyECrawford (Sage Advice) on Twitter on this question. He was asked: "is the spell Ice Knife treated at an AOE with a 5 foot radius or 5 feet around that?" His answer was - "Ice knife has a 5 ft. radius."
Unfortunately, there was no detailed answer. But I would like to understand this. Or maybe I'm missing something?
I really hope for your help.
Thank you!
Although the descriptions are quite similar, Hail of Thorns and Ice Knife have a difference.
Ice knife has a clear radius in the description (5 feet). And the description says: " The target and each creature within 5 feet of the point where the ice exploded ". So the point of origin and the area of effect are defined.
Hail of Thorns has "Self" as the range of application and the description says: " the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it ". So here every creature no more than 5 feet away from the target is affected by the spell.
Thanks for the answer.
My mistake was that I did not look at the description of Ice Knife here. Now I see that the description says range / area (60ft / 5ft).
Can I use any intersection of the square in which the target is located?
In the end, do I understand correctly that if in the description of the spell it is written that he has a distance - "self" and the area - "xx ft", then the distance is counted as squares as when moving? Burning hands or Hail of Thorns
If the description says that the distance is "xx ft" and the area is "xx ft", then we need to use intersection of squares as the point of origin. Fireball
I understand that my questions go beyond the original topic. Do I need to create another topic with these questions?
Thank you for your patience.
DO not worry, no need for another thread.
Yes, in a grid, you can use the intersection of squares a the point of origin.
Yes, the distance is counted as when moving.
And again, thanks for your reply.
But I think I did not put it right, because my English is far from perfect.
To make sure that I said everything correctly, I offer you the illustrations)
About the location of the spell point Ice Knife:
Blue Circle - caster; 3 yellow circles - orcs; little red circles - point of origin.
I attack the first orc with the spell Ice Knife. And I choose the right upper corner of his square to touch others with AOE. Can I do this?
About AOE spells with a range "self"
I'm using the diagonal's optional rule. In the picture above (cone 30ft) first step will be along the diagonal.
Here the first step will be horizontal.
In the first and second cases we do not use the rule of point of origin as intersection of squares because range - "Self".
Do I understand everything correctly?
Sorry, I can't see any illustration in your post. But, for the case of Ice Knife, yes you can choose the top right corner as the point of origin.
I think I fixed the picture problem. Can you look again?
Oh, yes, they are nice.
The answers are yes for both.
Many thanks for your answers, you freed me)