"When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting."
It doesn't really seem right that the spell caster has no say in the matter.
Say a sorcerer (with twin casting) wants to levitate two people. Normally it costs a second level spell and 2 sorcery points, but what if he is out of 2nd level spell slots so has to cast it with a 3rd level slot?
Am I right Rule as written the spell assumes a 3rd level and therefore costs 3 sorcery points? If so would you as a GM rule it that way?
If not what about spells where there are advantages to casting it at a higher level, for example If I want to twin mind spike but only use 2 sorcery points can I do so using a 3rd level spot but only doing the damage of a 2nd level spell?
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).
The Spell (levitate) itself is just a second level spell, and that is what the Metamagic is based off of.
That's how I have always ruled it. Though I'm sure it could go the other way. I tend to rule in favor of player advantage - this is a game.
Cast it at 3rd level, you concentrate and can curse someone for 10 minutes.
Now upcast it to 5th level, Duration is now 8 hours and does NOT require concentration.
You twin it. You really going to say you get it twinned for only 3 SP, rather than 5 SP? Of course not. You upcast it to get that sweet duration and so it doesn't require concentration.
Yes, upcasting Levitation is a bad idea because you get nothing for upcasting. That is YOUR choice. You have chosen an expensive strategy, so pay it.
Cast it at 3rd level, you concentrate and can curse someone for 10 minutes.
Now upcast it to 5th level, Duration is now 8 hours and does NOT require concentration.
You twin it. You really going to say you get it twinned for only 3 SP, rather than 5 SP? Of course not. You upcast it to get that sweet duration and so it doesn't require concentration.
What I am saying is you can choose to bypass "the the spell assumes the higher level for that casting"
If you are out of 3rd and 4th level spell slots but are low on sorcery points you can use a 5th level slot to cast twin bestow curse at 3rd level using only 3 sorcery points but it only lasts for 10 minutes or until you lose concentration.
I don't think it is RAW but I have always played on the assumption if I run out of low level spell slots I can always use a highher level slot instead. With twinning you also have to waste sorcery points or waster two bonus actions.
The level of a spell is always determined by the level spell slot used to cast it. You can't use a higher level spell slot without also making the spell a higher level.
From the Player's Handbook section on spellcasting:
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. For instance, if Umara casts magic missile using one of her 2nd-level slots, that magic missile is 2nd level. Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.
This means that if you're out of second level spell slots and are forced to used a third level slot, yes, you will have to spend more sorcery points because the spell is a third level spell (even if there's no benefit to it being a third level spell)
Cast it at 3rd level, you concentrate and can curse someone for 10 minutes.
Now upcast it to 5th level, Duration is now 8 hours and does NOT require concentration.
You twin it. You really going to say you get it twinned for only 3 SP, rather than 5 SP? Of course not. You upcast it to get that sweet duration and so it doesn't require concentration.
What I am saying is you can choose to bypass "the the spell assumes the higher level for that casting"
If you are out of 3rd and 4th level spell slots but are low on sorcery points you can use a 5th level slot to cast twin bestow curse at 3rd level using only 3 sorcery points but it only lasts for 10 minutes or until you lose concentration.
I don't think it is RAW but I have always played on the assumption if I run out of low level spell slots I can always use a highher level slot instead. With twinning you also have to waste sorcery points or waster two bonus actions.
You can also munch the higher slot into Sorcery Points, then turn the Sorcery Points back into the lower level slot.
Say the 5th level slot is the lowest level slot you still have. Crush it, and you get 5 Sorcery Points. Then you create a 2nd level spell slot with Sorcery Points, costing you 3 points. You can now Twin the 2nd level cast of Levitate for the remaining 2 points you got from eating the initial 5th level slot. In the end, you've effectively spent 3 actions in order to reduce a 5th level slot to a 2nd, and Twin the spell you cast.
You CAN do what you want to do, just not they way you want to do it.
You can also munch the higher slot into Sorcery Points, then turn the Sorcery Points back into the lower level slot.
Say the 5th level slot is the lowest level slot you still have. Crush it, and you get 5 Sorcery Points. Then you create a 2nd level spell slot with Sorcery Points, costing you 3 points. You can now Twin the 2nd level cast of Levitate for the remaining 2 points you got from eating the initial 5th level slot. In the end, you've effectively spent 3 actions in order to reduce a 5th level slot to a 2nd, and Twin the spell you cast.
You CAN do what you want to do, just not they way you want to do it.
That was exactly what a meant by wasting two bonus actions
Spells are always cast at the level of the spell slot used.
This is why hexblade warlocks with the shield spell and a ring of spell storing don't go together. If a 9th level warlock tries to put a shield spell into the ring it takes up 5 spaces and fills the ring since the warlock only has 5th level slots so the shield spell is cast as a 5th level spell and takes up 5 spaces in a ring of spell storing. A 9th level warlock can't cast shield as a 1st level spell.
I multi-classed my warlock with one level of sorcerer just so I could make proper use of my ring of spell storing :)
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The rules say
"When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting."
It doesn't really seem right that the spell caster has no say in the matter.
Say a sorcerer (with twin casting) wants to levitate two people. Normally it costs a second level spell and 2 sorcery points, but what if he is out of 2nd level spell slots so has to cast it with a 3rd level slot?
Am I right Rule as written the spell assumes a 3rd level and therefore costs 3 sorcery points? If so would you as a GM rule it that way?
If not what about spells where there are advantages to casting it at a higher level, for example If I want to twin mind spike but only use 2 sorcery points can I do so using a 3rd level spot but only doing the damage of a 2nd level spell?
The Spell (levitate) itself is just a second level spell, and that is what the Metamagic is based off of.
That's how I have always ruled it. Though I'm sure it could go the other way.
I tend to rule in favor of player advantage - this is a game.
...cryptographic randomness!
Consider this case. Sorcerer knows Bestow Curse.
Cast it at 3rd level, you concentrate and can curse someone for 10 minutes.
Now upcast it to 5th level, Duration is now 8 hours and does NOT require concentration.
You twin it. You really going to say you get it twinned for only 3 SP, rather than 5 SP? Of course not. You upcast it to get that sweet duration and so it doesn't require concentration.
Yes, upcasting Levitation is a bad idea because you get nothing for upcasting. That is YOUR choice. You have chosen an expensive strategy, so pay it.
Quote from Mog_Dracov >>
What I am saying is you can choose to bypass "the the spell assumes the higher level for that casting"
If you are out of 3rd and 4th level spell slots but are low on sorcery points you can use a 5th level slot to cast twin bestow curse at 3rd level using only 3 sorcery points but it only lasts for 10 minutes or until you lose concentration.
I don't think it is RAW but I have always played on the assumption if I run out of low level spell slots I can always use a highher level slot instead. With twinning you also have to waste sorcery points or waster two bonus actions.
The level of a spell is always determined by the level spell slot used to cast it. You can't use a higher level spell slot without also making the spell a higher level.
From the Player's Handbook section on spellcasting:
This means that if you're out of second level spell slots and are forced to used a third level slot, yes, you will have to spend more sorcery points because the spell is a third level spell (even if there's no benefit to it being a third level spell)
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You can also munch the higher slot into Sorcery Points, then turn the Sorcery Points back into the lower level slot.
Say the 5th level slot is the lowest level slot you still have. Crush it, and you get 5 Sorcery Points. Then you create a 2nd level spell slot with Sorcery Points, costing you 3 points. You can now Twin the 2nd level cast of Levitate for the remaining 2 points you got from eating the initial 5th level slot. In the end, you've effectively spent 3 actions in order to reduce a 5th level slot to a 2nd, and Twin the spell you cast.
You CAN do what you want to do, just not they way you want to do it.
That was exactly what a meant by wasting two bonus actions
Spells are always cast at the level of the spell slot used.
This is why hexblade warlocks with the shield spell and a ring of spell storing don't go together. If a 9th level warlock tries to put a shield spell into the ring it takes up 5 spaces and fills the ring since the warlock only has 5th level slots so the shield spell is cast as a 5th level spell and takes up 5 spaces in a ring of spell storing. A 9th level warlock can't cast shield as a 1st level spell.
I multi-classed my warlock with one level of sorcerer just so I could make proper use of my ring of spell storing :)