Our group is having a debate over a Tabaxi Rogue playing The Revived subclass. The Rogue does their action to attack a creature with a melee attack within 5 feet, then uses their cunning action to disengage and get away. The Rogue has then been casting Bolts from the Grave to get some extra damage. This is where the debate starts. The wording on Bolts from the Grave is "Immediately after you use your Cunning Action, you can make a ranged spell attack against a creature within 30 feet of you..."
Because it says "immediately" does this mean Bolts from the Grave should be at disadvantage because it's a ranged spell attack being shot from within 5 feet of the creature?
Or does "immediately" mean Bolts from the Grave occurs after he finishes the disengage and movement?
Assuming the melee attack wasn't a sneak attack (so Bolts from the Grave actually applies), then you would be correct that Bolts from the Grave would be at disadvantage. The action taken with cunning action is disengage. That action doesn't involve movement. A dash would work fine, but doesn't have the advantages of disengage.
This is a very suboptimal use of the rogue's turn, not to mention Bolts from the Grave. I don't understand why a rogue would get into melee range (barring exceptional circumstances) and make an attack without the possibility of a sneak attack.
Disengage does not have to be taken as you leave a threat range, it applies to all your movement that round. Cunning (Disengage)->Bolts from range->move up->Attack in melee->move back would work.
But yes the Bolts must be “immediately” after declaring Cunning.
Immediate means immediate. The valid uses of Cunning Action are on Dash, Disengage, and Hide. These actions are both taken & concluded immediately. Dash provides extra movement, but the action is not movement itself; it concludes immediately, before any movement, after it is taken. Disengage alters what happens with your movement, but is also not movement itself. Both of these actions can be taken regardless of whether you actually move at all. Even though it is often described as happening in tandem with movement, the Hide action requires that you be concealed before the action actually happens, so it's a misnomer to think that specific action happens before movement does. That's relevant to your question about Disengage timing with Cunning Action: "Immediately after you use your Cunning Action" occurs immediately upon activating Disengage, prior to any actual movement. The Rogue would make their BftG ranged attack in melee range, and would suffer disadvantage on the roll.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Immediately does seem to mean immediately. Given that this wording is not frequently used, hopefully they will reword it to use the same language as other rules. Probably not though, it won't be the first (not even close) new feature that has wording unique to itself.
Immediately does seem to mean immediately. Given that this wording is not frequently used, hopefully they will reword it to use the same language as other rules. Probably not though, it won't be the first (not even close) new feature that has wording unique to itself.
Truth. Most of the UA of 2019-present uses overly-casual language.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It would seem to me that you could Dash away and suffer an attack of opportunity and then use Bolts from the Grave unencumbered. Still doesn't seem optimal.
Welcome to the forums. Apparently the designers noticed this paradox as well. When they deprecated the revived rogue and replaced it with the phantom rogue, they also abandoned bolts from the grave.
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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Our group is having a debate over a Tabaxi Rogue playing The Revived subclass. The Rogue does their action to attack a creature with a melee attack within 5 feet, then uses their cunning action to disengage and get away. The Rogue has then been casting Bolts from the Grave to get some extra damage. This is where the debate starts. The wording on Bolts from the Grave is "Immediately after you use your Cunning Action, you can make a ranged spell attack against a creature within 30 feet of you..."
Because it says "immediately" does this mean Bolts from the Grave should be at disadvantage because it's a ranged spell attack being shot from within 5 feet of the creature?
Or does "immediately" mean Bolts from the Grave occurs after he finishes the disengage and movement?
Assuming the melee attack wasn't a sneak attack (so Bolts from the Grave actually applies), then you would be correct that Bolts from the Grave would be at disadvantage. The action taken with cunning action is disengage. That action doesn't involve movement. A dash would work fine, but doesn't have the advantages of disengage.
This is a very suboptimal use of the rogue's turn, not to mention Bolts from the Grave. I don't understand why a rogue would get into melee range (barring exceptional circumstances) and make an attack without the possibility of a sneak attack.
Disengage does not have to be taken as you leave a threat range, it applies to all your movement that round. Cunning (Disengage)->Bolts from range->move up->Attack in melee->move back would work.
But yes the Bolts must be “immediately” after declaring Cunning.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Immediate means immediate. The valid uses of Cunning Action are on Dash, Disengage, and Hide. These actions are both taken & concluded immediately. Dash provides extra movement, but the action is not movement itself; it concludes immediately, before any movement, after it is taken. Disengage alters what happens with your movement, but is also not movement itself. Both of these actions can be taken regardless of whether you actually move at all. Even though it is often described as happening in tandem with movement, the Hide action requires that you be concealed before the action actually happens, so it's a misnomer to think that specific action happens before movement does. That's relevant to your question about Disengage timing with Cunning Action: "Immediately after you use your Cunning Action" occurs immediately upon activating Disengage, prior to any actual movement. The Rogue would make their BftG ranged attack in melee range, and would suffer disadvantage on the roll.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Immediately does seem to mean immediately. Given that this wording is not frequently used, hopefully they will reword it to use the same language as other rules. Probably not though, it won't be the first (not even close) new feature that has wording unique to itself.
Truth. Most of the UA of 2019-present uses overly-casual language.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It would seem to me that you could Dash away and suffer an attack of opportunity and then use Bolts from the Grave unencumbered. Still doesn't seem optimal.
Welcome to the forums. Apparently the designers noticed this paradox as well. When they deprecated the revived rogue and replaced it with the phantom rogue, they also abandoned bolts from the grave.
"Not all those who wander are lost"