I can think of two standards you could apply as a DM:
1) If you're in combat together, meaning Initiative has been rolled and the creature can reasonably assume you and your friends are not on the same side. Whether anyone's actually done anything to the target yet, you could argue that the battle has begun and thus it counts.
2) If you or one of your party has targeted it with an attack or cast a spell with it in the AoE and that had hostile intent(i.e. not a healing spell)
Barring an official ruling, I would tend towards 1. If a player in the group wants to make a case for 2 then they'd have to explain why the creature wouldn't reasonably believe they're being fought. The spell doesn't say "if you or someone friendly to you has damaged it", it say if they're "fighting" it.
Okay but according to the rules if the player says "I cast a spell" this triggers the launch of the initative between caster and target.
So whether you win or lose the initiative, the fight has always already begun when the spell is cast, and the condition in which you make the saving throw without advantage never occurs.
In the past, if I've won initiative or if my friends have not yet taken hostile actions in combat the DM has allowed the spell without advantage. Though, given my friends, the spell usually lasts until the next person's turn.
If I were ruling, I would say that as long as your allies aren't yet taking hostile action towards the target's allies, the target doesn't get advantage. I would even apply this if the target were ambushing the party.
The casting of Charm/Dominate is not factored into whether the creature sees you as hostile. It only factors that in once it realises you have cast a spell on it, if the spell fails or when the spell ends.
Charm/Dominate acts on what you have done to the creature prior to casting Charm/Dominate. It does not factor in the spell itself.
Hello,
the title refers to charm and dominate X spells: "If you or creatures that are friendly to you are fighting it, it has advantage on the saving throw".
If combat begins with initiative, under what conditions can I cast these spells with no advantage on the saving throw?
Thx
I can think of two standards you could apply as a DM:
1) If you're in combat together, meaning Initiative has been rolled and the creature can reasonably assume you and your friends are not on the same side. Whether anyone's actually done anything to the target yet, you could argue that the battle has begun and thus it counts.
2) If you or one of your party has targeted it with an attack or cast a spell with it in the AoE and that had hostile intent(i.e. not a healing spell)
Barring an official ruling, I would tend towards 1. If a player in the group wants to make a case for 2 then they'd have to explain why the creature wouldn't reasonably believe they're being fought. The spell doesn't say "if you or someone friendly to you has damaged it", it say if they're "fighting" it.
Okay but according to the rules if the player says "I cast a spell" this triggers the launch of the initative between caster and target.
So whether you win or lose the initiative, the fight has always already begun when the spell is cast, and the condition in which you make the saving throw without advantage never occurs.
Just because there's initiative doesn't mean it's necessarily a fight - and the casting of spells doesn't necessarily mean initiative must be called.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
In the past, if I've won initiative or if my friends have not yet taken hostile actions in combat the DM has allowed the spell without advantage. Though, given my friends, the spell usually lasts until the next person's turn.
If I were ruling, I would say that as long as your allies aren't yet taking hostile action towards the target's allies, the target doesn't get advantage. I would even apply this if the target were ambushing the party.
But cast "dominate monster" always has warlike intentions so -> initiative -> combat. Or not?
The casting of Charm/Dominate is not factored into whether the creature sees you as hostile. It only factors that in once it realises you have cast a spell on it, if the spell fails or when the spell ends.
Charm/Dominate acts on what you have done to the creature prior to casting Charm/Dominate. It does not factor in the spell itself.