Our party has a problem. While technically it has three spell casters out of it's four, one is a paladin who only uses spell slots for smiting, one is a druid who relies far more on wild shape for combat instead of spellcasting, and one is a monk who doesn't have spells. That just leaves me, the WM sorceress, as the only dedicated spellcaster and my spells have... been very effective. Until my GM discovered counterspell. Now, I'm not complaining about the spell itself. It's a legit tactic and I have no reason to suspect he's been unfair or not playing by the rules. Even though every DC check has succeeded it's been bosses and dedicated spellcasters blocking 4th level spells and such so I'm not about to say he's being dishonest (especially when he's been fairly honest so-far) for passing a DC14 spell check. However the amount of enemies that can do this has been drastically increasing and it's resulted in a situation in which my spell-casting is devolving into careful square counting to ensure I'm just out of range. Needless to say this has rendered my sorceress... increasingly situational in her usefulness. Massive enemy army attacking and a prime target for sickening radiance? Counterspell. Que a wasted spell slot and a full turn of sitting around on my ass doing nothing when even a crossbow shot would have at least potentially progressed the gamestate.
I want to know if there's some way to deal with this. Not 'pick Counterspell yourself' since I'm one caster with a limited number of slots and 'I counterspell your counterspell' is really lame for gameplay. Some way to actually confront the problem head-on and deal with the no-selling other than annoying square-counting or praying they fail the DC check. Especially if he flings a fireball, I pop an Absorb Elements, and he counterspells that. That's what's got me really on-edge. Absorb Elements, Shield, and Misty Step are all low level despite being essential 'don't get my face smashed in' tools. Plus it's really lame if I try a 5th level spell and it fizzles and there's nothing I can do about it.
It sounds like your DM is more interested in "winning the game" than in helping to create a good story. I would honestly just say right to the DM (outside of game time, of course), "So is this is way it's gonna be now?" Unless the DM is also counterspelling the paladin's smites, then it's pretty clear that he has simply found a shiny new tool and he intends to run it into the ground. Remind him that D&D is not a game that's meant to be "won", nor is it a game intended to create an adversarial opposition between the DM and the players. D&D is an effort in cooperative storytelling. the players and the DM should be working together to create a good story. Yes, there are rules. Yes, there are enemies. Yes, there will be times when things don't go your way. But to simply hammer down on one player with one tactic over and over to the detriment of playability is just mean. It's not a way to tell a good story, and it's not fun.
D&D is a game. If we're not having fun.... why play?
Unsure if you are looking for an in-game or out of game way to address this problem, but I agree with AnzioFaro's take on the social aspect.
Subtle spell or distant spell metamagics on your own casts are fairly cheap in-game options for counterspell-proofing your big spells, though depending on your MM picks and your level that may or may not be helpful. You've already got the positioning aspect sorted, enemy spell casters cannot react to your counterspell at 65' away. Check the components of your spells - material and somatic component spells can't be observed if you break line of sight first. Finding or creating cover (mold earth, fog cloud, etc) can all be good options for avoiding counterspells.
If you have level 4 spells cast Greater Invisibility on yourself. If you don't have it, get it at your next level. He can't counterspell what he can't see. You can continue to make attacks while invisible. I like to Quicken GI so I can get off a cantrip for damage at the same time. If you don't have Subtle get it when you can. Take Metamagic Adept at your next ASI level. Or if you are allowed to use Tasha's alternate features just exchange one of your current metamagics for Subtle. I've enjoyed using it in our current campaign to shut down the spell casters we've encountered.
If your DM is only shutting you down with counter spell that's a different thing. Talk to him outside of the game. Find out why he is doing it. Could be story reasons, could be he is trying to "win" dnd, could be he just doesn't know any other way to do it.
DND should be fun for you and constant counter spelling isn't fair. Dealing lots of damage is a sorcerer's thing and you should have opportunities to do just that.
While technically it has three spell casters ... That just leaves me, the WM sorceress, as the only dedicated spellcaster and my spells have... been very effective. Until my GM discovered counterspell. ... I have no reason to suspect he's been unfair or not playing by the rules.
Unless the DM is also counterspelling the paladin's smites, then it's pretty clear that he has simply found a shiny new tool and he intends to run it into the ground.
Can't counterspell smites - they are an ability which consumes a spell slot, not a spell.
As for the OP - you have fifth level spells, so are at level 9+. You should have been facing counterspell for a long while - even before you had access to it to be honest - especially for bosses. It is a little unfortunate or unusual that you are the only caster, but as you have already pointed out there are ways to mitigate the risk. And this risk is more manageable than high AC or high HP which effect the melee people. Remember that using a counterspell requires the use of a reaction and also consumes a spell slot. Counterspells and legendary resistances are part and parcel of playing a caster. The only examples you have given are against boss monsters and hitting a DC 14 - which is pretty damn easy for enemies against level 9 characters. It is worth pointing out though that the check is an ability check, not an arcana (or other) check. Still, at that level you are likely at a 50/50 chance. I would expect the enemies to be upcasting though as well.
As a sorcerer you are the one casting class to have an extra trick up your sleeve - which is subtle spell. If they don't know you are casting a spell they can't counter. Similarly you could wait until they have used their reaction and then pull out the big spells, or take the counterspell to use up the reaction and allow your team mates to do something.
I will be the first to admit that we don't know the full story, but based on what you have written I don't see an issue at all. I see a DM playing smart and you need to up your game. As long as the rules are being followed you need to find a way to deal with them. I played as a sorcerer in a campaign once with a permanent anti-magic zone. Several real life months of not being able to cast a spell. That was less than fun - so it could be worse.
While technically it has three spell casters ... That just leaves me, the WM sorceress, as the only dedicated spellcaster and my spells have... been very effective. Until my GM discovered counterspell. ... I have no reason to suspect he's been unfair or not playing by the rules.
Unless the DM is also counterspelling the paladin's smites, then it's pretty clear that he has simply found a shiny new tool and he intends to run it into the ground.
Can't counterspell smites - they are an ability which consumes a spell slot, not a spell.
As for the OP - you have fifth level spells, so are at level 9+. You should have been facing counterspell for a long while - even before you had access to it to be honest - especially for bosses. It is a little unfortunate or unusual that you are the only caster, but as you have already pointed out there are ways to mitigate the risk. And this risk is more manageable than high AC or high HP which effect the melee people. Remember that using a counterspell requires the use of a reaction and also consumes a spell slot. Counterspells and legendary resistances are part and parcel of playing a caster. The only examples you have given are against boss monsters and hitting a DC 14 - which is pretty damn easy for enemies against level 9 characters. It is worth pointing out though that the check is an ability check, not an arcana (or other) check. Still, at that level you are likely at a 50/50 chance. I would expect the enemies to be upcasting though as well.
As a sorcerer you are the one casting class to have an extra trick up your sleeve - which is subtle spell. If they don't know you are casting a spell they can't counter. Similarly you could wait until they have used their reaction and then pull out the big spells, or take the counterspell to use up the reaction and allow your team mates to do something.
I will be the first to admit that we don't know the full story, but based on what you have written I don't see an issue at all. I see a DM playing smart and you need to up your game. As long as the rules are being followed you need to find a way to deal with them. I played as a sorcerer in a campaign once with a permanent anti-magic zone. Several real life months of not being able to cast a spell. That was less than fun - so it could be worse.
The issue is that an occasional counterspell has become increasingly common and targeted almost exclusively towards me. Like I said, I have no problem with it as a spell and no problem with the GM using it to occasionally block stuff, it's a game mechanic and one I DO need to deal with. Even if that 'dealing' is just sucking it up. However it's become both increasingly common and increasingly specific to the point where I'm basically dancing at 65 feet because the alternative is eating a counterspell and I'm EXTREMELY worried that it's only a matter of time before he counters my 'don't get my face turned into a +4 CHA pulp' spells (like MS and AE).
As for upping my game, that's why I'm here. Cause I wanna learn how to deal with this and improve without it devolving into a range dance or me taking counterspell myself and having it become a tedious bout of 'I counter your counter'. While I don't think he's cheating I'd rather we all have fun and I feel like I'm being punished for... not being a walking fireball factory and trying new things out. I will talk to him IRL and see if I can get him to dial back the usage but, even if he agrees, I want to improve as well especially if he's not my GM.
However it's become both increasingly common and increasingly specific
Well of course it is ... you are the only caster! As for more common - well you have graduated from goblins and bugbears to more magically inclined enemies . This goes with the territory.
I don't see you have a "case" here, personally. As a DM and player of almost exclusively casters. It is hard as a DM to not "pick" on people and also hard to try and keep track of your monsters reactions (for example - because you are also trying to keep track of all the players etc as well). So if he is accidentally using too many reactions, or too many legendary saves, then politely let him know. Anyone worth their salt will accept the correction or explain it is a special circumstance.
This edition of D&D is less about blasting and save or die spells and more about being a support character for casters. You already have the main advice though - spells cast out of combat generally can't be countered. Stay 65' feet away. Try and sucker out a reaction or take advantage of reactions being used on others. If they don't know a spell is being cast they can't counterspell it - subtle spell works here in some cases. All psychic spells fall under that same umbrella and I would have a discussion about invisibility [I haven't been bothered to look into this - there may be sage advice on it, though that isn't always correct either].
"I'm EXTREMELY worried that it's only a matter of time before he counters my 'don't get my face turned into a +4 CHA pulp' spells (like MS and AE). " Great! He has used up a reaction and a 3rd level spell slot to stop a 1st or second level spell. That is a great trade off, not for you, but for the team as a whole. It also hasn't happened yet and may never happen ... so don't panic over it.
End of the day I can only go by what you have written but it really seems like you are making a mountain out of a molehill worrying about possible futures and how boss monsters are challenging to you. You do need to have fun though, so if you can't get past it you need to find a group or a class that you are more comfortable with. Even casters of the same build will have vastly different experiences in different groups or the same group but different campaigns.
When I mentioned counterspelling the paladin's smites, I was referring to paladin spells like Searing Smite, Thunderous Smite, Wrathful Smite, Branding Smite, Blinding Smite, Staggering Smite, and Banishing Smite.
But yes, the Divine Smite class ability cannot be counterspelled. I should have been more clear. Thank you.
Imagine if you put a lot of time and effort into creating a really cool Fighter character. Heavy armor, greatsword, Great Weapon Master, a really cool melee warrior that you're really proud of and want to enjoy playing...... except that literally every single creature the DM throws at you can fly.
I really do not see the issue here, Sorcerers are the ONE class that have built in defense against Counterspell in the form of Metamagic. Both Subtle and Distant Spell can easily defeat Counterspell the vast majority of time. You can even try the sneaky Shocking Grasp, Quickened Spell combo if you are feeling brave and want to go face to face against the enemy caster.
If you did not take any of those options then you should try and get one of them at the next opportunity, maybe even ask your DM if you can have a free Metamagic swap if Counterspell is bothering you that much.
Metamagic comes with a cost. It's not a limitless ability. A ninth level sorcerer has nine sorcery points. That means you can cast a Quickened spell three times .... PER DAY. That's it. Even using subtle spell, you can only do it nine times per day max, and you've got 14 spell slots to cast. And even this assumes that you aren't using any sorcery points at all for any of your subclass abilities.
Yes, counterspell is a legitimate tactic. Yes, counterspell is something that all casters have to deal with at some point. The point of this thread (at least as I understand it) is not a debate on the RAW of counterspell, but rather on the fact that OP feels that the DM has been singling her out and intentionally overusing counterspell literally every single time she ever tries to cast any spell. That's not fair and it's not nice. And it has resulted in her not having fun at the table any more.
D&D is a game. If you're not having fun, why play?
Metamagic comes with a cost. It's not a limitless ability. A ninth level sorcerer has nine sorcery points. That means you can cast a Quickened spell three times .... PER DAY. That's it. Even using subtle spell, you can only do it nine times per day max, and you've got 14 spell slots to cast. And even this assumes that you aren't using any sorcery points at all for any of your subclass abilities.
Yes, counterspell is a legitimate tactic. Yes, counterspell is something that all casters have to deal with at some point. The point of this thread (at least as I understand it) is not a debate on the RAW of counterspell, but rather on the fact that OP feels that the DM has been singling her out and intentionally overusing counterspell literally every single time she ever tries to cast any spell. That's not fair and it's not nice. And it has resulted in her not having fun at the table any more.
D&D is a game. If you're not having fun, why play?
You do not NEED to use Subtle Spell on EVERYTHING, just the clutch spells you need to get through. Your math is wrong as well since Quickened Spell costs 2 points and 9/2 = 4.5 not 3. I would also be over the moon if my DM started wasting Counterspell slots on my 1st/2nd level spells. Additionally you can convert spell slots into more sorcery points so the point of not having enough points for slots is moot. Finally my point still stands that Sorcerers are the ONLY class that comes with built in defenses against Counterspell. What other caster class can do that without taking a feat or resorting to Counterspell wars?
D&D is indeed a game. But if the DM is not having fun as well then who runs the game?
This is a very good showcase on why not every problem within DnD can be easily solved. Seems like the DM tried to increase the challenge of his encounters by somewhat spamming counterspells. If you look in the MM, there are not a lot of Enemies, that know Counterspell. Not even every spellcaster knows counterspell. And dealing with powerful spellcaster PC's by spamming counterspelling spellcasters to increase the challenge of encounters is not a good and fun solution. So first things first: Talk to your DM! Explain to him on why this is not very much fun for you.
If the DM don't change anything, talk to your Group and act smart as group. YOur other players can help you, to become efficient again, without you using all your resources to overcome one spammed spell. The Group should concentrate the fire on enemie casters, and bring them down quickly, so that you can use your Spells to great effect. Your allies could try to soak up the reaction or maybe use abilities that don't allow the caster to take a reaction at all. And then there are the other options, that are mentioned. In my opinion subtle spell is the best one, because usually one well placed spell is often enough for your caster to shine. And with 9 SP you will find 1 or 3 spare points to push your important spells through. Greater Invisibility is great too.
My opinion of having the DM use Counterspell against me is that’s usually a great tradeoff for the party. Not only does it use the opponent’s reaction but it also uses one of their limited spell slots.
What you can do that is completely legal is describe how you cast a spell and then let the DM decide if he wants to use Counterspell against that spell or not before he knows what the spell is. Rules as Written you have to make an Arcana check to know what spell is being cast. For example, “I clap my hands over my head and point at the leader of the bandits, casting a spell.” is how I describe it when I cast Shatter. Then it’s up to the DM if he wants to cast Counterspell or not before he knows which spell you’re casting.
The tradeoff somewhat depends on the level of the enemy spellcaster. If I am an enemy spell caster with 4th and 5th level spells, and I can shut down the party's sorcerer for the first 3 turns with my reaction and my level 3 slots, that's a pretty cheap price to pay unless the fight drags on for many rounds, doubly so if I am fighting with allies. At lower levels draining a 3rd level spell that could have been a fireball against the party is a great use of a turn.
Compounding the issue is the fact that enemies typically get to start a fight with their full stat block and go nova, while you are much more likely to have expended resources arriving at the fight, or need to conserve them if it is not a boss fight.
My opinion of having the DM use Counterspell against me is that’s usually a great tradeoff for the party. Not only does it use the opponent’s reaction but it also uses one of their limited spell slots.
What you can do that is completely legal is describe how you cast a spell and then let the DM decide if he wants to use Counterspell against that spell or not before he knows what the spell is. Rules as Written you have to make an Arcana check to know what spell is being cast. For example, “I clap my hands over my head and point at the leader of the bandits, casting a spell.” is how I describe it when I cast Shatter. Then it’s up to the DM if he wants to cast Counterspell or not before he knows which spell you’re casting.
The problem here is that it's not a 1-1 trade of power. For example, in what I described, had my spell succeeded I would have successfully forced a multiple enemies to not only take a LOT of damage but potentially gain a level of exhaustion or find an alternate route. Easily more valuable than a counterspell and probably the single most valuable thing the party could have done. Likewise if my character is facing down a fireball and has a choice between an AE or dropping to 0 and they counter the AE, even though it's 'only a level 1 spell slot' downing a PC is JUST more valuable. Plus not every situation allows for me to be at 65+ feet away from the enemy. I'm not saying that to gripe but to point out that context and situation matters. It's also why I asked for help; because these situations where, say, I'm surrounded by 12 angry men with weapons do arise and being able to ensure I Misty Step can be the difference between a one-sided curbing in our favor and a one-sided curbing in THEIR favor.
I will be taking subtle spell first chance I get and adopting the tactics described to try and deal with the problem if he doesn't ease up. I will miss shouting 'Fiyreballu!' in a faux-japanese/anime accent but it can't be helped. Thank you for your advise and I hope this problem will be resolved peacefully.
Oh. And yes, the issue here is not 'git gud' but me feeling singled out as the seeming-sole target of the spells. I'm also going to talk to the druid/paladin to try and REALLY push him to start using his spell slots a bit more but, even if I succeed, they're almost certain to keep transforming/using smite; but if the GM's going to JUST counterspell me then I'll make him pay by clearing the way for my party's spells.
My opinion of having the DM use Counterspell against me is that’s usually a great tradeoff for the party. Not only does it use the opponent’s reaction but it also uses one of their limited spell slots.
What you can do that is completely legal is describe how you cast a spell and then let the DM decide if he wants to use Counterspell against that spell or not before he knows what the spell is. Rules as Written you have to make an Arcana check to know what spell is being cast. For example, “I clap my hands over my head and point at the leader of the bandits, casting a spell.” is how I describe it when I cast Shatter. Then it’s up to the DM if he wants to cast Counterspell or not before he knows which spell you’re casting.
The problem here is that it's not a 1-1 trade of power. For example, in what I described, had my spell succeeded I would have successfully forced a multiple enemies to not only take a LOT of damage but potentially gain a level of exhaustion or find an alternate route. Easily more valuable than a counterspell and probably the single most valuable thing the party could have done. Likewise if my character is facing down a fireball and has a choice between an AE or dropping to 0 and they counter the AE, even though it's 'only a level 1 spell slot' downing a PC is JUST more valuable. Plus not every situation allows for me to be at 65+ feet away from the enemy. I'm not saying that to gripe but to point out that context and situation matters. It's also why I asked for help; because these situations where, say, I'm surrounded by 12 angry men with weapons do arise and being able to ensure I Misty Step can be the difference between a one-sided curbing in our favor and a one-sided curbing in THEIR favor.
I will be taking subtle spell first chance I get and adopting the tactics described to try and deal with the problem if he doesn't ease up. I will miss shouting 'Fiyreballu!' in a faux-japanese/anime accent but it can't be helped. Thank you for your advise and I hope this problem will be resolved peacefully.
Oh. And yes, the issue here is not 'git gud' but me feeling singled out as the seeming-sole target of the spells. I'm also going to talk to the druid/paladin to try and REALLY push him to start using his spell slots a bit more but, even if I succeed, they're almost certain to keep transforming/using smite; but if the GM's going to JUST counterspell me then I'll make him pay by clearing the way for my party's spells.
You have to look at this from the DMs perspective as well. Your party of 4 has 3 members that can cast spells, just because your Paly and Druid don't do it doesn't mean they can't. So much potential magic can end encounters very fast. That's probably the reason he puts Counterspell in the enemies you are facing.
While all of the suggestions are valid, there is still another way to circumvent counterspell.
Find or purchase a wand or magic item that doesn't require material components to activate. Counterspell won't work on those items. Choose essential spells for the wand (ring of spell storing) and use that in high risk situations. This along with the other tactics discussed should yield the results you want.
Subtle Spell + Blindness/Deafness : choose blindness. Can't counterspell if they can't see you. Same applies to any spells that block line of sight (LoS) such as Fog Cloud or Darkness but those have the drawback of blocking LoS to enemy.
Subtle Spell + Tasha's Mind Whip : target cannot make reactions until end of next turn, which means no counterspelling.
Subtle Spell + Major Image : make an image that blocks LoS like a wall, smoke, etc. Have this be a tactic you've warned your allies about. You and the party know it is an illusion so you can see through it, but target LoS is blocked. Works best of your allies can keep the enemy on other side of illusion.
Subtle Spell + Hypnotic Pattern : best if you have one or two enemy spellcasters and the rest are minions. When affected by this, the enemy spellcasters are incapacitated making them unable to counterspell for 1 minute or until damaged or an enemy shakes them out of it - which your party can prevent.
Combo
Distant Spell + Shocking Grasp as an action. Allows to use this at 10 ft range. Follow with Quicken Spell Tasha's Mind Whip as a bonus. Even if they counterspell Shocking Grasp they'll be unable to counter Tasha's. Both spells remove reactions for a round while dealing damage. The next turn you can cast without worry, preferably something like Hold or another Mind Whip. By denying reactions to the enemy you deny them counterspell. Tides of Chaos can be used to gain advantage on the Shocking Grasp.
Distant Spell
Or just stand outside the 60 ft and use Distant Spell if necessary.
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Basically:
The DM's not doing anything wrong.
You have a lot of options to deal with counterspell with the right metamagic and spells.
Also: You have allies. Subtle Spell + Haste on the Paladin that focuses on the enemy spellcasters will be amazing, especially if they have Mage Slayer feat.
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Remember the enemy has to see you to counter spell. There are actually quite alot of sorcerer spells that can be used around cover or don't require sight
1.Even in a fog cloud or darkness zone attacks would just be at disadvantage at worst (if your both in they would cancel out to a straight roll) but not be counterspellable.
2.classes other than rogue can hide in combat. try going behind something and hiding then using quicken to cast(or just wait one turn if trying to save slots).
3. greater invisibility also blocks counterspell.
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Our party has a problem. While technically it has three spell casters out of it's four, one is a paladin who only uses spell slots for smiting, one is a druid who relies far more on wild shape for combat instead of spellcasting, and one is a monk who doesn't have spells. That just leaves me, the WM sorceress, as the only dedicated spellcaster and my spells have... been very effective. Until my GM discovered counterspell. Now, I'm not complaining about the spell itself. It's a legit tactic and I have no reason to suspect he's been unfair or not playing by the rules. Even though every DC check has succeeded it's been bosses and dedicated spellcasters blocking 4th level spells and such so I'm not about to say he's being dishonest (especially when he's been fairly honest so-far) for passing a DC14 spell check. However the amount of enemies that can do this has been drastically increasing and it's resulted in a situation in which my spell-casting is devolving into careful square counting to ensure I'm just out of range. Needless to say this has rendered my sorceress... increasingly situational in her usefulness. Massive enemy army attacking and a prime target for sickening radiance? Counterspell. Que a wasted spell slot and a full turn of sitting around on my ass doing nothing when even a crossbow shot would have at least potentially progressed the gamestate.
I want to know if there's some way to deal with this. Not 'pick Counterspell yourself' since I'm one caster with a limited number of slots and 'I counterspell your counterspell' is really lame for gameplay. Some way to actually confront the problem head-on and deal with the no-selling other than annoying square-counting or praying they fail the DC check. Especially if he flings a fireball, I pop an Absorb Elements, and he counterspells that. That's what's got me really on-edge. Absorb Elements, Shield, and Misty Step are all low level despite being essential 'don't get my face smashed in' tools. Plus it's really lame if I try a 5th level spell and it fizzles and there's nothing I can do about it.
It sounds like your DM is more interested in "winning the game" than in helping to create a good story. I would honestly just say right to the DM (outside of game time, of course), "So is this is way it's gonna be now?" Unless the DM is also counterspelling the paladin's smites, then it's pretty clear that he has simply found a shiny new tool and he intends to run it into the ground. Remind him that D&D is not a game that's meant to be "won", nor is it a game intended to create an adversarial opposition between the DM and the players. D&D is an effort in cooperative storytelling. the players and the DM should be working together to create a good story. Yes, there are rules. Yes, there are enemies. Yes, there will be times when things don't go your way. But to simply hammer down on one player with one tactic over and over to the detriment of playability is just mean. It's not a way to tell a good story, and it's not fun.
D&D is a game. If we're not having fun.... why play?
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
Unsure if you are looking for an in-game or out of game way to address this problem, but I agree with AnzioFaro's take on the social aspect.
Subtle spell or distant spell metamagics on your own casts are fairly cheap in-game options for counterspell-proofing your big spells, though depending on your MM picks and your level that may or may not be helpful. You've already got the positioning aspect sorted, enemy spell casters cannot react to your counterspell at 65' away. Check the components of your spells - material and somatic component spells can't be observed if you break line of sight first. Finding or creating cover (mold earth, fog cloud, etc) can all be good options for avoiding counterspells.
If you have level 4 spells cast Greater Invisibility on yourself. If you don't have it, get it at your next level. He can't counterspell what he can't see. You can continue to make attacks while invisible. I like to Quicken GI so I can get off a cantrip for damage at the same time. If you don't have Subtle get it when you can. Take Metamagic Adept at your next ASI level. Or if you are allowed to use Tasha's alternate features just exchange one of your current metamagics for Subtle. I've enjoyed using it in our current campaign to shut down the spell casters we've encountered.
If your DM is only shutting you down with counter spell that's a different thing. Talk to him outside of the game. Find out why he is doing it. Could be story reasons, could be he is trying to "win" dnd, could be he just doesn't know any other way to do it.
DND should be fun for you and constant counter spelling isn't fair. Dealing lots of damage is a sorcerer's thing and you should have opportunities to do just that.
Can't counterspell smites - they are an ability which consumes a spell slot, not a spell.
As for the OP - you have fifth level spells, so are at level 9+. You should have been facing counterspell for a long while - even before you had access to it to be honest - especially for bosses. It is a little unfortunate or unusual that you are the only caster, but as you have already pointed out there are ways to mitigate the risk. And this risk is more manageable than high AC or high HP which effect the melee people.
Remember that using a counterspell requires the use of a reaction and also consumes a spell slot. Counterspells and legendary resistances are part and parcel of playing a caster. The only examples you have given are against boss monsters and hitting a DC 14 - which is pretty damn easy for enemies against level 9 characters. It is worth pointing out though that the check is an ability check, not an arcana (or other) check. Still, at that level you are likely at a 50/50 chance. I would expect the enemies to be upcasting though as well.
As a sorcerer you are the one casting class to have an extra trick up your sleeve - which is subtle spell. If they don't know you are casting a spell they can't counter. Similarly you could wait until they have used their reaction and then pull out the big spells, or take the counterspell to use up the reaction and allow your team mates to do something.
I will be the first to admit that we don't know the full story, but based on what you have written I don't see an issue at all. I see a DM playing smart and you need to up your game. As long as the rules are being followed you need to find a way to deal with them.
I played as a sorcerer in a campaign once with a permanent anti-magic zone. Several real life months of not being able to cast a spell. That was less than fun - so it could be worse.
The issue is that an occasional counterspell has become increasingly common and targeted almost exclusively towards me. Like I said, I have no problem with it as a spell and no problem with the GM using it to occasionally block stuff, it's a game mechanic and one I DO need to deal with. Even if that 'dealing' is just sucking it up. However it's become both increasingly common and increasingly specific to the point where I'm basically dancing at 65 feet because the alternative is eating a counterspell and I'm EXTREMELY worried that it's only a matter of time before he counters my 'don't get my face turned into a +4 CHA pulp' spells (like MS and AE).
As for upping my game, that's why I'm here. Cause I wanna learn how to deal with this and improve without it devolving into a range dance or me taking counterspell myself and having it become a tedious bout of 'I counter your counter'. While I don't think he's cheating I'd rather we all have fun and I feel like I'm being punished for... not being a walking fireball factory and trying new things out. I will talk to him IRL and see if I can get him to dial back the usage but, even if he agrees, I want to improve as well especially if he's not my GM.
Well of course it is ... you are the only caster! As for more common - well you have graduated from goblins and bugbears to more magically inclined enemies . This goes with the territory.
I don't see you have a "case" here, personally. As a DM and player of almost exclusively casters. It is hard as a DM to not "pick" on people and also hard to try and keep track of your monsters reactions (for example - because you are also trying to keep track of all the players etc as well). So if he is accidentally using too many reactions, or too many legendary saves, then politely let him know. Anyone worth their salt will accept the correction or explain it is a special circumstance.
This edition of D&D is less about blasting and save or die spells and more about being a support character for casters. You already have the main advice though - spells cast out of combat generally can't be countered. Stay 65' feet away. Try and sucker out a reaction or take advantage of reactions being used on others. If they don't know a spell is being cast they can't counterspell it - subtle spell works here in some cases. All psychic spells fall under that same umbrella and I would have a discussion about invisibility [I haven't been bothered to look into this - there may be sage advice on it, though that isn't always correct either].
"I'm EXTREMELY worried that it's only a matter of time before he counters my 'don't get my face turned into a +4 CHA pulp' spells (like MS and AE). "
Great! He has used up a reaction and a 3rd level spell slot to stop a 1st or second level spell. That is a great trade off, not for you, but for the team as a whole. It also hasn't happened yet and may never happen ... so don't panic over it.
End of the day I can only go by what you have written but it really seems like you are making a mountain out of a molehill worrying about possible futures and how boss monsters are challenging to you.
You do need to have fun though, so if you can't get past it you need to find a group or a class that you are more comfortable with. Even casters of the same build will have vastly different experiences in different groups or the same group but different campaigns.
When I mentioned counterspelling the paladin's smites, I was referring to paladin spells like Searing Smite, Thunderous Smite, Wrathful Smite, Branding Smite, Blinding Smite, Staggering Smite, and Banishing Smite.
But yes, the Divine Smite class ability cannot be counterspelled. I should have been more clear. Thank you.
Imagine if you put a lot of time and effort into creating a really cool Fighter character. Heavy armor, greatsword, Great Weapon Master, a really cool melee warrior that you're really proud of and want to enjoy playing...... except that literally every single creature the DM throws at you can fly.
Would that be fun?
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
I really do not see the issue here, Sorcerers are the ONE class that have built in defense against Counterspell in the form of Metamagic. Both Subtle and Distant Spell can easily defeat Counterspell the vast majority of time. You can even try the sneaky Shocking Grasp, Quickened Spell combo if you are feeling brave and want to go face to face against the enemy caster.
If you did not take any of those options then you should try and get one of them at the next opportunity, maybe even ask your DM if you can have a free Metamagic swap if Counterspell is bothering you that much.
Metamagic comes with a cost. It's not a limitless ability. A ninth level sorcerer has nine sorcery points. That means you can cast a Quickened spell three times .... PER DAY. That's it. Even using subtle spell, you can only do it nine times per day max, and you've got 14 spell slots to cast. And even this assumes that you aren't using any sorcery points at all for any of your subclass abilities.
Yes, counterspell is a legitimate tactic. Yes, counterspell is something that all casters have to deal with at some point. The point of this thread (at least as I understand it) is not a debate on the RAW of counterspell, but rather on the fact that OP feels that the DM has been singling her out and intentionally overusing counterspell literally every single time she ever tries to cast any spell. That's not fair and it's not nice. And it has resulted in her not having fun at the table any more.
D&D is a game. If you're not having fun, why play?
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
You do not NEED to use Subtle Spell on EVERYTHING, just the clutch spells you need to get through. Your math is wrong as well since Quickened Spell costs 2 points and 9/2 = 4.5 not 3. I would also be over the moon if my DM started wasting Counterspell slots on my 1st/2nd level spells. Additionally you can convert spell slots into more sorcery points so the point of not having enough points for slots is moot. Finally my point still stands that Sorcerers are the ONLY class that comes with built in defenses against Counterspell. What other caster class can do that without taking a feat or resorting to Counterspell wars?
D&D is indeed a game. But if the DM is not having fun as well then who runs the game?
This is a very good showcase on why not every problem within DnD can be easily solved.
Seems like the DM tried to increase the challenge of his encounters by somewhat spamming counterspells. If you look in the MM, there are not a lot of Enemies, that know Counterspell. Not even every spellcaster knows counterspell. And dealing with powerful spellcaster PC's by spamming counterspelling spellcasters to increase the challenge of encounters is not a good and fun solution.
So first things first: Talk to your DM! Explain to him on why this is not very much fun for you.
If the DM don't change anything, talk to your Group and act smart as group. YOur other players can help you, to become efficient again, without you using all your resources to overcome one spammed spell. The Group should concentrate the fire on enemie casters, and bring them down quickly, so that you can use your Spells to great effect. Your allies could try to soak up the reaction or maybe use abilities that don't allow the caster to take a reaction at all.
And then there are the other options, that are mentioned. In my opinion subtle spell is the best one, because usually one well placed spell is often enough for your caster to shine. And with 9 SP you will find 1 or 3 spare points to push your important spells through.
Greater Invisibility is great too.
My opinion of having the DM use Counterspell against me is that’s usually a great tradeoff for the party. Not only does it use the opponent’s reaction but it also uses one of their limited spell slots.
What you can do that is completely legal is describe how you cast a spell and then let the DM decide if he wants to use Counterspell against that spell or not before he knows what the spell is. Rules as Written you have to make an Arcana check to know what spell is being cast. For example, “I clap my hands over my head and point at the leader of the bandits, casting a spell.” is how I describe it when I cast Shatter. Then it’s up to the DM if he wants to cast Counterspell or not before he knows which spell you’re casting.
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The tradeoff somewhat depends on the level of the enemy spellcaster. If I am an enemy spell caster with 4th and 5th level spells, and I can shut down the party's sorcerer for the first 3 turns with my reaction and my level 3 slots, that's a pretty cheap price to pay unless the fight drags on for many rounds, doubly so if I am fighting with allies. At lower levels draining a 3rd level spell that could have been a fireball against the party is a great use of a turn.
Compounding the issue is the fact that enemies typically get to start a fight with their full stat block and go nova, while you are much more likely to have expended resources arriving at the fight, or need to conserve them if it is not a boss fight.
The problem here is that it's not a 1-1 trade of power. For example, in what I described, had my spell succeeded I would have successfully forced a multiple enemies to not only take a LOT of damage but potentially gain a level of exhaustion or find an alternate route. Easily more valuable than a counterspell and probably the single most valuable thing the party could have done. Likewise if my character is facing down a fireball and has a choice between an AE or dropping to 0 and they counter the AE, even though it's 'only a level 1 spell slot' downing a PC is JUST more valuable. Plus not every situation allows for me to be at 65+ feet away from the enemy. I'm not saying that to gripe but to point out that context and situation matters. It's also why I asked for help; because these situations where, say, I'm surrounded by 12 angry men with weapons do arise and being able to ensure I Misty Step can be the difference between a one-sided curbing in our favor and a one-sided curbing in THEIR favor.
I will be taking subtle spell first chance I get and adopting the tactics described to try and deal with the problem if he doesn't ease up. I will miss shouting 'Fiyreballu!' in a faux-japanese/anime accent but it can't be helped. Thank you for your advise and I hope this problem will be resolved peacefully.
Oh. And yes, the issue here is not 'git gud' but me feeling singled out as the seeming-sole target of the spells. I'm also going to talk to the druid/paladin to try and REALLY push him to start using his spell slots a bit more but, even if I succeed, they're almost certain to keep transforming/using smite; but if the GM's going to JUST counterspell me then I'll make him pay by clearing the way for my party's spells.
You have to look at this from the DMs perspective as well. Your party of 4 has 3 members that can cast spells, just because your Paly and Druid don't do it doesn't mean they can't. So much potential magic can end encounters very fast. That's probably the reason he puts Counterspell in the enemies you are facing.
While all of the suggestions are valid, there is still another way to circumvent counterspell.
Find or purchase a wand or magic item that doesn't require material components to activate. Counterspell won't work on those items. Choose essential spells for the wand (ring of spell storing) and use that in high risk situations. This along with the other tactics discussed should yield the results you want.
Subtle Spell + Blindness/Deafness : choose blindness. Can't counterspell if they can't see you. Same applies to any spells that block line of sight (LoS) such as Fog Cloud or Darkness but those have the drawback of blocking LoS to enemy.
Subtle Spell + Hold Person/Monster : incapacitated enemies cannot cast spells.
Subtle Spell + Tasha's Mind Whip : target cannot make reactions until end of next turn, which means no counterspelling.
Subtle Spell + Major Image : make an image that blocks LoS like a wall, smoke, etc. Have this be a tactic you've warned your allies about. You and the party know it is an illusion so you can see through it, but target LoS is blocked. Works best of your allies can keep the enemy on other side of illusion.
Subtle Spell + Hypnotic Pattern : best if you have one or two enemy spellcasters and the rest are minions. When affected by this, the enemy spellcasters are incapacitated making them unable to counterspell for 1 minute or until damaged or an enemy shakes them out of it - which your party can prevent.
Combo
Distant Spell + Shocking Grasp as an action. Allows to use this at 10 ft range. Follow with Quicken Spell Tasha's Mind Whip as a bonus. Even if they counterspell Shocking Grasp they'll be unable to counter Tasha's. Both spells remove reactions for a round while dealing damage. The next turn you can cast without worry, preferably something like Hold or another Mind Whip. By denying reactions to the enemy you deny them counterspell. Tides of Chaos can be used to gain advantage on the Shocking Grasp.
Distant Spell
Or just stand outside the 60 ft and use Distant Spell if necessary.
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Basically:
The DM's not doing anything wrong.
You have a lot of options to deal with counterspell with the right metamagic and spells.
Also: You have allies. Subtle Spell + Haste on the Paladin that focuses on the enemy spellcasters will be amazing, especially if they have Mage Slayer feat.
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One slight correction, Distant Spell + Shocking Grasp = 30 ft range not 10.
Remember the enemy has to see you to counter spell. There are actually quite alot of sorcerer spells that can be used around cover or don't require sight
1.Even in a fog cloud or darkness zone attacks would just be at disadvantage at worst (if your both in they would cancel out to a straight roll) but not be counterspellable.
2.classes other than rogue can hide in combat. try going behind something and hiding then using quicken to cast(or just wait one turn if trying to save slots).
3. greater invisibility also blocks counterspell.