so i had an idea for a group of wizards who are actively trying to as they view it liberate the arcane arts from the tyranny of mystra 

 so im not sure but there is a tiny fragment of mystryl in every being and that is what grants them the ability to access the weave and be affected by spells 

they perform horrific and agonising rituals to remove that spark that results in them being incapable of interacting with magic that operates using the weave so they work to develop form of wizardry that lacks a need for the weave and develop a ritual or weapon to destroy mystra and replace them with a god who takes a more laissez fare approach to governing magic 

basically arcane anarchists

so what do you think

You lost me at horrific and agonizing. Maybe that fits the vibe of your player group but it hardly seems necessary to the purposes of your story.

Don't get me wrong, I think you've got the kernel of a great idea there but I think you need to flesh it out a bit more. Once you do, I think you'll see that the torture aspect is unnecessary.

Groverbloom, I think this group was meant to be the evil group for the campaign, the PCs would be going after the group to shut down the torture.

I understood it that way as well.

fair enough i was inspired to make after playing through seeking mr.eatens name 

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with it.

As I said above, I think it's a solid start to an idea. The counterpoint I would make is why are your heroes opposing them? If it's because they are horrific torturers then your underlying premise is wasted.

But...if you make the loss of ones spark something horrifying in and of itself, now you have a meaningful story.

What does not having a spark of magic look like? How does it affect the victims beyond the basic game mechanics of being "disconnected from the magic of the weave"?

Maybe the spark of the weave is what people tap into for imagination and creativity. Maybe the weave binds us to each other, so that people without it no longer feel an emotional connection to the world around them. Or...a thousand other things you could come up with, any of which would add a deeper meaning and impact to your story.

thanks for the advice i've also had another idea: self mummifying lich monks but i like the idea that a lich thing can't be passive so any ideas of what they might have to do to maintain their immortality

and in the mr.eaten stryline to uncover his you have to understand what hes been through and to to that you need to cut up into little pieces

This isn't a very fleshed out idea but you can tweak it if you like it:

The group uses a ritual that mimics the Arcane Trickster ability "Spell Thief" in some fashion. Maybe have it where they can siphon off the spells other spell casters know and eventuallly they build up a repository of magical knowledge where they can study and memorise any spell from any spell list (as long as they have previously stolen it). They may also go around hunting Sorcerers, being as they are innately magical people they may view them as living extensions of the Weave/magical sparks and eliminating them may weaken the weave. And lastly....look into the Shadow Weave created by Shar as a rival power source, I can't recall what happened to it from a cannon/lore perspective but it was something around the time of 3rd edition d&d, so you could also have the wizards try to recreate it or tap into it and could be a good motivation for their actions.

interesting advice and ideas thank you 

I really like this idea too!

Unfortunately, my natural inclination would be to combine your ideas and have the liches draining the spark from people to sustain the spells that keep them alive. But that is a much weaker and less interesting idea than your original arcane anarchists.

I mean, the old trope would be conducting rituals that drain the life force from the surrounding area. First in some deep, mysterious forest where ancient trees start to become twisted and sick and the only clue is the lingering trace of necromantic magic. Then, as the animals flee and the plants begin to die out, the liches have to expand their territory, slowly moving into more occupied lands...sickening shepherds and their livestock and, eventually, the residents of nearby villages.

If you want a more complex villain, your Liches may not even want to hurt people, but the price of immortality must be paid and they just don't see any other option.

Like I said, it's not terribly new or original, but sometimes the old tales can still be compelling.

Also love Rob76's idea! Enjoying the creativity from both of you!

I think your original idea is great on its own and personally I see nothing wrong with the horrific and agonizing torture part of your setup. It definitely creates a very dark/violent setting and should be discussed with the group. If that's what you'd like to play, then it's a great setting. I've played lots of dark and violent themes and lots of merry high fantasy heroism. Both are great fun. :) 

So it's a fascist government doing horrible things to the people to dispose of a natural quality in them that doesn't fit in their personal agenda. That's literally the reality in many parts of our world/history, minus the magic. 

I think you can milk that on its own for quite a bit of motivation and amazing narrative if you just flesh it out. They are terrible people and it's a terrible government. I personally wouldn't need any more motivation to jump on that anarchist wagon. 

The setup doesn't need to be complicated to work. It can be, bit you can create depth in a number of ways, for example interesting NPCs and subplots. 

A few thoughts to hopefully supplement your original idea:

1. Do you and your players want it to reflect the hardships and awful deeds of our actual word or to be an escapist fantasy? Consider this. There are ways to create either in the premise you described. 

2. What will be the focus of your narrative? Is describing the torture and agony crucial to your depiction of the world? Does it add an element that creates value to the story/roleplay?

3. If you feel like describing the horrible things and the depressing reality of the world creates value for the game, then go ahead and milk that. If you want to create that escapist fantasy, then maybe just emphasize this in the premise and create reminders of this reality, but don't go into detail. Let the players be cheerful anarchists and great heroes who always do the right thing and the bad guys are just bad guys - or make a social/philosophical game with complex moral decisions and shades of grey. Both are very much enjoyable, but the latter is much more difficult for the DM and the players. 

4. Take your time setting up the game and creating the players characters together. This is a very specific theme that requires a very specific ideology from the player characters. That is not good or bad, it just needs to be understood by everyone at the table. I've held similar games in different systems and the biggest risk I see is players not following the assignment. First you need to set the base requirement for all player characters. I'll make a new chapter about what I think is the core here. 

5. Core of your setup: Your players are anarchists who actively oppose this violent fascist government. That is what they want, that is their purpose first and foremost. That is the foundation of character creation that they all need to accept if they want to join your campaign.  With this you avoid a lot of problems in running the game. They can be whatever they want second and there are endless character concepts to create around this concept, but this is what they build it all upon. You have this right as the DM. There can be limitations or requirements for character creation for story-driving purposes. 

6. If you decide to ignore part 5, then be prepared to face a hard time getting the characters invested. Knowing how different tabletop players are and not knowing your group's typical tendencies or ages, there just might be a character who is either indifferent or wants things that are in direct conflict with the story's interests or doesn't fit the theme. 

7. I think the setup doesn't need further motivation/depth, but you can add those layers. You can make it more personal for each PC, you can add layers of depth to the evil of this campaign. You can make it so that most of the evil government's officials are forced to work there and hate them too. But they just have to obey. (moral dilemma) Or you can make it so that the bad guys are just bad guys (escapist). The setup can be very simple and straight forward without demanding a simple and straight forward game itself. 

 8. I think Groverblooms suggestion that you should make the lack of this spark clearly visible is a great suggestion. This is really a driving force that serves as a constant reminder of why this government needs to be stopped. You can make this part of the agonizing torture concept too. You can have them visibly scarred (physically and mentally) from the torture. Especially useful if you want to avoid describing the actual torture. You can just make is cosmetically clear what the mutilation looks like after the deed has been done without going into detail on how it's done. 

9. Generally speaking: The more complicated and detailed the setup/plot is, the less room for player inclusion and inspiration there usually is. But the more open ended it is, the more it demands inclusion and activity from the players. Are they experienced roleplayers who can create amazing RP content from a pile of mud or are they still quite dependent on you as the DM? Do you want to practice co-creation with the players or just deliver them a game? 

I hope these were helpful. :) Just some thoughts to boost your process.

Some of the comments here suggested that you should abandon some parts of your concept. I personally think that is ill advice on a creative process, because it comes from a very personal viewer standpoint. Imagine your story/premise being like a book. Some people like to write/read Hannibal, some like to write/read Harlequin. Your group are your readers and you are the writer. You as the writer should write what you like to write, but also note that you are writing for a certain audience. There is a balance between these two interests. :)

I think critique/advice/feedback should be focused on improving your own original art piece and finding ways to make it work and not finding reasons why it doesn't work.

Also to add. I'll gladly help you with avoiding some potholes if you want to make that gritty and morally complex game. I've ran some of those and they are really fun to make and play, but they can become frustrating if things go wrong. I've made those mistakes plenty of times. :P 

Just PM me for my Discord details if you want to further discuss your plans. 

Quote from mrwarlock100000 >>

so i had an idea for a group of wizards who are actively trying to as they view it liberate the arcane arts from the tyranny of mystra 

 so im not sure but there is a tiny fragment of mystryl in every being and that is what grants them the ability to access the weave and be affected by spells 

they perform horrific and agonising rituals to remove that spark that results in them being incapable of interacting with magic that operates using the weave so they work to develop form of wizardry that lacks a need for the weave and develop a ritual or weapon to destroy mystra and replace them with a god who takes a more laissez fare approach to governing magic 

basically arcane anarchists

so what do you think

 Manichaenism. 

So real life cult related to gnosticism that has some weird beliefs about life being the good "light" trapped in a evil material world of pain and suffering. It follows with bits of the light and true self being discovered and "freed" through knowledge and practice of aescteticism. Even some foods (because what's a religion without a dietary restriction?). 

So if you are interested, how about a bit of a tweak to the idea: Mystral IS the weave and these wizards are hoping to find and recover these bits through the means you mention in order to restore Mystral, (she doesn't have to necessarily be a evil god. It's the misguided actions of the wizards that are evil). They also need special silly robes and pointy hats. And a special diet that avoids..... idk... cabbages and vegetables that form heads. *Shrugs* point is if they're kinda cultish, don't forget non-mechanical practices they might have.

interesting proposition

Quote from SerLoxy >>

I think your original idea is great on its own and personally I see nothing wrong with the horrific and agonizing torture part of your setup. It definitely creates a very dark/violent setting and should be discussed with the group. If that's what you'd like to play, then it's a great setting. I've played lots of dark and violent themes and lots of merry high fantasy heroism. Both are great fun. :) 

So it's a fascist government doing horrible things to the people to dispose of a natural quality in them that doesn't fit in their personal agenda. That's literally the reality in many parts of our world/history, minus the magic. 

I think you can milk that on its own for quite a bit of motivation and amazing narrative if you just flesh it out. They are terrible people and it's a terrible government. I personally wouldn't need any more motivation to jump on that anarchist wagon. 

The setup doesn't need to be complicated to work. It can be, bit you can create depth in a number of ways, for example interesting NPCs and subplots. 

A few thoughts to hopefully supplement your original idea:

1. Do you and your players want it to reflect the hardships and awful deeds of our actual word or to be an escapist fantasy? Consider this. There are ways to create either in the premise you described. 

2. What will be the focus of your narrative? Is describing the torture and agony crucial to your depiction of the world? Does it add an element that creates value to the story/roleplay?

3. If you feel like describing the horrible things and the depressing reality of the world creates value for the game, then go ahead and milk that. If you want to create that escapist fantasy, then maybe just emphasize this in the premise and create reminders of this reality, but don't go into detail. Let the players be cheerful anarchists and great heroes who always do the right thing and the bad guys are just bad guys - or make a social/philosophical game with complex moral decisions and shades of grey. Both are very much enjoyable, but the latter is much more difficult for the DM and the players. 

4. Take your time setting up the game and creating the players characters together. This is a very specific theme that requires a very specific ideology from the player characters. That is not good or bad, it just needs to be understood by everyone at the table. I've held similar games in different systems and the biggest risk I see is players not following the assignment. First you need to set the base requirement for all player characters. I'll make a new chapter about what I think is the core here. 

5. Core of your setup: Your players are anarchists who actively oppose this violent fascist government. That is what they want, that is their purpose first and foremost. That is the foundation of character creation that they all need to accept if they want to join your campaign.  With this you avoid a lot of problems in running the game. They can be whatever they want second and there are endless character concepts to create around this concept, but this is what they build it all upon. You have this right as the DM. There can be limitations or requirements for character creation for story-driving purposes. 

6. If you decide to ignore part 5, then be prepared to face a hard time getting the characters invested. Knowing how different tabletop players are and not knowing your group's typical tendencies or ages, there just might be a character who is either indifferent or wants things that are in direct conflict with the story's interests or doesn't fit the theme. 

7. I think the setup doesn't need further motivation/depth, but you can add those layers. You can make it more personal for each PC, you can add layers of depth to the evil of this campaign. You can make it so that most of the evil government's officials are forced to work there and hate them too. But they just have to obey. (moral dilemma) Or you can make it so that the bad guys are just bad guys (escapist). The setup can be very simple and straight forward without demanding a simple and straight forward game itself. 

 8. I think Groverblooms suggestion that you should make the lack of this spark clearly visible is a great suggestion. This is really a driving force that serves as a constant reminder of why this government needs to be stopped. You can make this part of the agonizing torture concept too. You can have them visibly scarred (physically and mentally) from the torture. Especially useful if you want to avoid describing the actual torture. You can just make is cosmetically clear what the mutilation looks like after the deed has been done without going into detail on how it's done. 

9. Generally speaking: The more complicated and detailed the setup/plot is, the less room for player inclusion and inspiration there usually is. But the more open ended it is, the more it demands inclusion and activity from the players. Are they experienced roleplayers who can create amazing RP content from a pile of mud or are they still quite dependent on you as the DM? Do you want to practice co-creation with the players or just deliver them a game? 

I hope these were helpful. :) Just some thoughts to boost your process.

Some of the comments here suggested that you should abandon some parts of your concept. I personally think that is ill advice on a creative process, because it comes from a very personal viewer standpoint. Imagine your story/premise being like a book. Some people like to write/read Hannibal, some like to write/read Harlequin. Your group are your readers and you are the writer. You as the writer should write what you like to write, but also note that you are writing for a certain audience. There is a balance between these two interests. :)

I think critique/advice/feedback should be focused on improving your own original art piece and finding ways to make it work and not finding reasons why it doesn't work.

 thank you for the advice and the offer but i would rather not join a discord with people i met online (nothing against you but i just don't join discords with people i don't know personally as a matter of principal)

also a lot of the ideas i present are more me using them as learning devices to help learn the theory of dming from more experienced players such as yourself