Do you have two separate psionic energy die pools? Is telekinetic thrust to knock someone prone+sneak attack good enough for the multiclass? Am I missing anything else important achievable by 15th level(Because I might play this in an actual campaign and it's not just a theory)?
Yes you have two separate dice pools. Whether telekinetic thrust to knock someone prone+sneak attack Is worth it will be based on how fun you personally find it. You will need to be at least lev 7 fighter for that to happen so think about the multi class breakdown you want and the role you want to fill for your team. Lev 8 Fighter / Lev 7 rogue should work to get the highest sneak attack damage for this as a lev 15 character.
Talk to your DM about the Psychic Blades Feature. As written the blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target so I don’t know how compatible that is with the fighter’s extra attack feature. Maybe you can create a blade for every attack, I’m not sure. I think you could attack once with a weapon and once with the Psychic Blade using your attack action and once again with the psychic blade as your bonus action. But to create the psychic blade your hand has to be free, and to do the bonus action attack your other hand has to be free to create the blade so there is some hand/weapon juggling you and your DM’s will need to work out together if you want that to work. Some DM’s are picky about that stuff, some are not. Have a conversation.
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The soul knifes psychic blade feature gives the ability to manifest a blade in an empty hand when you take the attack action. I dont know how it’s intended to work, but if you have the extra attack feature you’re still taking the attack action if you have another attack to make. Since the blade immediately disappears after the first attack, your hand is empty again and seems to qualify for the blade to be made again. There is none of the usual wording limiting the feature by round, turn, or any number of uses. Regardless, the psychic blades features weapons do fit the prerequisite to benefit from the dueling fighting style. Though the feature emulates two weapon fighting to a degree, the weapons that are manifested all appear and immediately vanish after each attack, so long as both hands are free when attacking. Since it’s not two weapon fighting, you’re free to add your ability modifier without the need for the two weapon fighting style.
3 psi warrior/X soul knife is pretty powerful if your DM doesn’t allow extra attack and psychic blades to work for some reason. If they do allow those features to work then 5 psi warrior/X soul knife seems to be the way to go. you don’t even need a lot of intelligence to make it work well, a +2 or +3 intelligence works just fine for protective field and Psionic strike. Protective field works with any instance of damage, even ones that uncanny dodge doesn’t qualify for. Telekinetic movement can be very effective depending on your circumstances. While the object has size limitations, the creature does not. Any size creature can be moved if they trust you and are willing. This might actually work well with your psychic whispers ability when role play situations arise.
I don't see the advantages here at all. Could someone explain it to me? Is there something I'm missing?
Rogues already have a reaction to reduce damage, so Protective Field seems redundant to me.
Psionic strike deals d6 + INT damage, which seems to be roughly equal to the sneak attack dice you're losing from 3 levels (and worse if you go Psi 5 or 7), but its a limited amount per rest.
Telekinesis uses your Action, which I imagine you'd be using skills or sneak attacks with.
Action surge is always nice, admittedly. But we're talking Psi specifically here, not Fighter in general.
At Psi 7, you can use Telekinetic Thrust to knock prone, but that still takes your action to do, leaving you without a way to land your sneak attack immediately. Well, you can Action Surge, but that's once per rest; as a warlock player, I'm uneasy relying on short rests. Every other time you use Telekinetic strike, you have to wait an entire round, and your NPC will get their turn and stand up before you get to land a sneak attack.
To me, it seems like the two classes don't seem to mix. Am I just missing something obvious?
Protective field works when uncanny dodge doesn’t work, like i said... uncanny dodge gives the ability to reduce the damage from one attack roll in half. Protective field can be used when you’re damaged by an attack roll, saving throw, ability check, or even damage received that bypasses all 3 of these normal ways to receive damage.
• Can reduce damage from failed spell saves • Can reduce damage from failing a check to disarms a trap. • Can reduce fall damage, possibly preventing the prone condition • Can reduce damage a party member receives, possibly reducing concentration save DC for a caster
your uncanny dodge preserving your psi warrior die is a good thing, as it means you’re likely to be able psi strike more often for extra damage. Saving your protective field feature for these other damaging events can be very useful throughout the adventuring day.
gaining extra attack feature at level 5 psi warrior mitigates sneak damage loss by providing an additional attack with your attack action. This gives a weapon die, damage modifier, +2 damage per hit with fighting style damage bonus from dueling, and an additional chance to land sneak attack. Psionic strike die increases to 1d8+intelligence mod at this level, which mitigates the sneak die loss and surpasses damage expectancy of a mono classed soul knife when coupled with extra attack and fighting style. level 8 character 5 psiwarrior/3 soul knife, dueling fighting style, can expect to deal an average of 28 damage per turn against a foe with 18 AC. same level 8 mono classed rogue soul knife with maxed dexterity is dealing an average of 21 damage vs 18AC. if they have to use the steady aim feature to get their damage, their damage drops, but the single rogue is still behind. 19 damage vs 25 damage against the same 18 AC. If you run out of psi warrior die, the damage average is the same as a single classed soul knife vs 18 AC without advantage, but the fighter multiclass deals more damage with advantage. This is all without taking action surge into account, which further increases the average damage possible by the fighter multiclass.
telekenisis will definitely not be useful the majority of combats, but it can definitely be useful out of combat. It’s usefulness in combat is to spend your action to pull a willing creature, regardless of size, out of danger without provoking opportunity attacks. Otherwise the object movement may be used to block or uncover entrances with large objects. Alternatively, tashas has included falling damage rules the DM can make use of if you decide to go looney tunes on creatures by dropping things on them.
Psionic thrust can be useful, but I do not support going that far into fighter for the benefit. The rogues ability to make use of the steady aim feature as a bonus action negates a lot of what makes psionic thrust useful in my opinion. psi powered leap can be useful, but i think it steps on cunning action and soulblades: psychic teleportation too much.
I'm reading through the Psychic Blades, and a few key phrases stick out to me. It says "Whenever you take the Attack Action, you can manifest a psychic blade". As well, the optional bonus action blade attack uses the term "a second psychic blade".
Now, Extra Attack allows a player to make multiple attacks with one use of the Attack Action, but it is still only one instance of the Attack Action. The Psychic Blade cannot be manifested without a full Attack Action, and that includes things like Opportunity Attacks. Having the Bonus Action psychic blade described overtly as a "Second" blade assumes then that you only get one from the previous attack.
That said, if you do multiclass into Fighter, Action Surge does actually create a second instance of the full Attack Action, so you could use that to make a second full attack with your primary blade. So, with that in mind, if you were to go for this I'd recommend just taking three levels in Fighter... this gives you a Fighting Style (I'd recommend thrown weapon fighting), a fairly mediocre Second Wind but hey... healing's healing, and of course... action surge, plus the abilities granted by being a level 3 psi warrior.
I'm not 100% certain on this, but I think that you only get a single pool of psionic energy dice. Think of it like Channel Divinity, a feature of both the Cleric and Paladin classes. If you were to multiclass Cleric and Paladin you still only get 1 Channel Divinity per short rest, until you reach a level in one of the classes that increases your uses.
Jeremy Crawford has already clarified that the die pools are tracked separately. This is because the die sizes will be different depending on level investment.
as for the “Whenever you take the Attack Action, you can manifest a psychic blade". As well, the optional bonus action blade attack uses the term "a second psychic blade". there is no clarification on if the blade wording is limiting the amount of blades you can manifest or if they are simply the same psychic blades being summoned continually over and over. “A” and “second” could be used simply to signify that they are different blades, which makes a bit of sense when we consider the blades have different damage die.
You only get one main and one bonus psychic blade for two psychic blades regardless of the number of attacks (confirmed by Jeremy Crawford), but attack is differentfrom action so with action surge you do get three once per short rest. Also, If you're at least rogue level 3 with soulknife and you multiclass into fighter level 1 you really should take the Thrown Weapon feat which adds +2 to all thrown damage, and focus on ranged attacks. This means you can arm and throw a dagger on any extra attack with no penalty. So, with Action Surge at fighter level 2 you can throw a third Psionic blade once per short rest so the best use with Action Surge at Rogue 3/Fighter 2 is:
Thrown main attack psychic blade 1d6+dex+2, thrown bonus action psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, thrown action surge psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, and one sneak attack 2d6 (if you qualify for sneak attack. You only get one sneak attack roll per turn, but this means three chances to hit with sneakattack damage).
Then at fighter level 5 you get Extra Attack. So with the third attack from fighter Extra Attack and the Thrown Weapon feat, the best use at Rogue 3/Fighter 5 is:
Thrown main-hand psychic blade 1d6+dex+2, thown bonus action psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, thrown extra attack dagger 1d4+dex+2, and one sneak attack 2d6. The difference is you can throw the extra dagger every round, and there is no penalty for arming and throwing the dagger.
Also, if you are a Psi Warrior, don't forget Psionic Strike can add 1d6+int per Psi Warrior die. Note, the levels shown are just for example. I recommend getting level 4 rogue before multiclassing into fighter 1 for the extra dexterity which improves AC, attack rolls, damage, and skill checks.
You only get one main and one bonus psychic blade for two psychic blades regardless of the number of attacks (confirmed by Jeremy Crawford), but attack is differentfrom action so with action surge you do get three once per short rest. Also, If you're at least rogue level 3 with soulknife and you multiclass into fighter level 1 you really should take the Thrown Weapon feat which adds +2 to all thrown damage, and focus on ranged attacks. This means you can arm and throw a dagger on any extra attack with no penalty. So, with Action Surge at fighter level 2 you can throw a third Psionic blade once per short rest so the best use with Action Surge at Rogue 3/Fighter 2 is:
Thrown main attack psychic blade 1d6+dex+2, thrown bonus action psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, thrown action surge psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, and one sneak attack 2d6 (if you qualify for sneak attack. You only get one sneak attack roll per turn, but this means three chances to hit with sneakattack damage).
Then at fighter level 5 you get Extra Attack. So with the third attack from fighter Extra Attack and the Thrown Weapon feat, the best use at Rogue 3/Fighter 5 is:
Thrown main-hand psychic blade 1d6+dex+2, thown bonus action psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, thrown extra attack dagger 1d4+dex+2, and one sneak attack 2d6. The difference is you can throw the extra dagger every round, and there is no penalty for arming and throwing the dagger.
Also, if you are a Psi Warrior, don't forget Psionic Strike can add 1d6+int per Psi Warrior die. Note, the levels shown are just for example. I recommend getting level 4 rogue before multiclassing into fighter 1 for the extra dexterity which improves AC, attack rolls, damage, and skill checks.
The dueling fighting style would give a +2 damage bonus to attacks made with the psychic blades when used in melee or thrown, so long as no other weapons are being held.
the +2 from the “thrown weapon fighting” fighting style would stack with dueling +2 on ranged attacks made with the thrown weapon.
That is a fantastic point since technically you only have one blade out at a time before it disappears, and you draw the dagger as you use it, so all three attacks and any additional attacks should benefit from another +2 damage.
On a side note, for roleplaying or just maximizing psionic benefit, I recommend 13 Rogue-Soulknife/7 Fighter-PsiWarrior which gets you the vast majority of the coolest psionic abilities, six attribute boosts for an easy 20 Dex and 20 Int, plenty of psionic dice (d10/d8), and 7d6 sneak attack. That's just my 2 cents.
Do you have two separate psionic energy die pools? Is telekinetic thrust to knock someone prone+sneak attack good enough for the multiclass? Am I missing anything else important achievable by 15th level(Because I might play this in an actual campaign and it's not just a theory)?
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Yes you have two separate dice pools. Whether telekinetic thrust to knock someone prone+sneak attack Is worth it will be based on how fun you personally find it. You will need to be at least lev 7 fighter for that to happen so think about the multi class breakdown you want and the role you want to fill for your team. Lev 8 Fighter / Lev 7 rogue should work to get the highest sneak attack damage for this as a lev 15 character.
Talk to your DM about the Psychic Blades Feature. As written the blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target so I don’t know how compatible that is with the fighter’s extra attack feature. Maybe you can create a blade for every attack, I’m not sure. I think you could attack once with a weapon and once with the Psychic Blade using your attack action and once again with the psychic blade as your bonus action. But to create the psychic blade your hand has to be free, and to do the bonus action attack your other hand has to be free to create the blade so there is some hand/weapon juggling you and your DM’s will need to work out together if you want that to work. Some DM’s are picky about that stuff, some are not. Have a conversation.
Check out my Disabled & Dragons Youtube Channel for 5e Monster and Player Tactics. Helping the Disabled Community and Players and DM’s (both new and experienced) get into D&D. Plus there is a talking Dragon named Quill.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPPmyTI0tZ6nM-bzY0IG3ww
The soul knifes psychic blade feature gives the ability to manifest a blade in an empty hand when you take the attack action. I dont know how it’s intended to work, but if you have the extra attack feature you’re still taking the attack action if you have another attack to make. Since the blade immediately disappears after the first attack, your hand is empty again and seems to qualify for the blade to be made again. There is none of the usual wording limiting the feature by round, turn, or any number of uses. Regardless, the psychic blades features weapons do fit the prerequisite to benefit from the dueling fighting style. Though the feature emulates two weapon fighting to a degree, the weapons that are manifested all appear and immediately vanish after each attack, so long as both hands are free when attacking. Since it’s not two weapon fighting, you’re free to add your ability modifier without the need for the two weapon fighting style.
3 psi warrior/X soul knife is pretty powerful if your DM doesn’t allow extra attack and psychic blades to work for some reason. If they do allow those features to work then 5 psi warrior/X soul knife seems to be the way to go. you don’t even need a lot of intelligence to make it work well, a +2 or +3 intelligence works just fine for protective field and Psionic strike. Protective field works with any instance of damage, even ones that uncanny dodge doesn’t qualify for. Telekinetic movement can be very effective depending on your circumstances. While the object has size limitations, the creature does not. Any size creature can be moved if they trust you and are willing. This might actually work well with your psychic whispers ability when role play situations arise.
Pardon moi, but....
I don't see the advantages here at all. Could someone explain it to me? Is there something I'm missing?
At Psi 7, you can use Telekinetic Thrust to knock prone, but that still takes your action to do, leaving you without a way to land your sneak attack immediately. Well, you can Action Surge, but that's once per rest; as a warlock player, I'm uneasy relying on short rests. Every other time you use Telekinetic strike, you have to wait an entire round, and your NPC will get their turn and stand up before you get to land a sneak attack.
To me, it seems like the two classes don't seem to mix. Am I just missing something obvious?
Protective field works when uncanny dodge doesn’t work, like i said... uncanny dodge gives the ability to reduce the damage from one attack roll in half. Protective field can be used when you’re damaged by an attack roll, saving throw, ability check, or even damage received that bypasses all 3 of these normal ways to receive damage.
• Can reduce damage from failed spell saves
• Can reduce damage from failing a check to disarms a trap.
• Can reduce fall damage, possibly preventing the prone condition
• Can reduce damage a party member receives, possibly reducing concentration save DC for a caster
your uncanny dodge preserving your psi warrior die is a good thing, as it means you’re likely to be able psi strike more often for extra damage. Saving your protective field feature for these other damaging events can be very useful throughout the adventuring day.
gaining extra attack feature at level 5 psi warrior mitigates sneak damage loss by providing an additional attack with your attack action. This gives a weapon die, damage modifier, +2 damage per hit with fighting style damage bonus from dueling, and an additional chance to land sneak attack. Psionic strike die increases to 1d8+intelligence mod at this level, which mitigates the sneak die loss and surpasses damage expectancy of a mono classed soul knife when coupled with extra attack and fighting style.
level 8 character 5 psiwarrior/3 soul knife, dueling fighting style, can expect to deal an average of 28 damage per turn against a foe with 18 AC.
same level 8 mono classed rogue soul knife with maxed dexterity is dealing an average of 21 damage vs 18AC.
if they have to use the steady aim feature to get their damage, their damage drops, but the single rogue is still behind. 19 damage vs 25 damage against the same 18 AC.
If you run out of psi warrior die, the damage average is the same as a single classed soul knife vs 18 AC without advantage, but the fighter multiclass deals more damage with advantage.
This is all without taking action surge into account, which further increases the average damage possible by the fighter multiclass.
telekenisis will definitely not be useful the majority of combats, but it can definitely be useful out of combat. It’s usefulness in combat is to spend your action to pull a willing creature, regardless of size, out of danger without provoking opportunity attacks. Otherwise the object movement may be used to block or uncover entrances with large objects. Alternatively, tashas has included falling damage rules the DM can make use of if you decide to go looney tunes on creatures by dropping things on them.
Psionic thrust can be useful, but I do not support going that far into fighter for the benefit. The rogues ability to make use of the steady aim feature as a bonus action negates a lot of what makes psionic thrust useful in my opinion.
psi powered leap can be useful, but i think it steps on cunning action and soulblades: psychic teleportation too much.
You actually don't have 2 separate pools
I'm reading through the Psychic Blades, and a few key phrases stick out to me. It says "Whenever you take the Attack Action, you can manifest a psychic blade". As well, the optional bonus action blade attack uses the term "a second psychic blade".
Now, Extra Attack allows a player to make multiple attacks with one use of the Attack Action, but it is still only one instance of the Attack Action. The Psychic Blade cannot be manifested without a full Attack Action, and that includes things like Opportunity Attacks. Having the Bonus Action psychic blade described overtly as a "Second" blade assumes then that you only get one from the previous attack.
That said, if you do multiclass into Fighter, Action Surge does actually create a second instance of the full Attack Action, so you could use that to make a second full attack with your primary blade. So, with that in mind, if you were to go for this I'd recommend just taking three levels in Fighter... this gives you a Fighting Style (I'd recommend thrown weapon fighting), a fairly mediocre Second Wind but hey... healing's healing, and of course... action surge, plus the abilities granted by being a level 3 psi warrior.
I'm not 100% certain on this, but I think that you only get a single pool of psionic energy dice. Think of it like Channel Divinity, a feature of both the Cleric and Paladin classes. If you were to multiclass Cleric and Paladin you still only get 1 Channel Divinity per short rest, until you reach a level in one of the classes that increases your uses.
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Jeremy Crawford has already clarified that the die pools are tracked separately. This is because the die sizes will be different depending on level investment.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/how-does-multiclassing-the-soulknife-and-psi-warrior-work-with-regards-to-how-many-psionic-energy-dice-you-get/
as for the “Whenever you take the Attack Action, you can manifest a psychic blade". As well, the optional bonus action blade attack uses the term "a second psychic blade". there is no clarification on if the blade wording is limiting the amount of blades you can manifest or if they are simply the same psychic blades being summoned continually over and over. “A” and “second” could be used simply to signify that they are different blades, which makes a bit of sense when we consider the blades have different damage die.
You only get one main and one bonus psychic blade for two psychic blades regardless of the number of attacks (confirmed by Jeremy Crawford), but attack is differentfrom action so with action surge you do get three once per short rest. Also, If you're at least rogue level 3 with soulknife and you multiclass into fighter level 1 you really should take the Thrown Weapon feat which adds +2 to all thrown damage, and focus on ranged attacks. This means you can arm and throw a dagger on any extra attack with no penalty. So, with Action Surge at fighter level 2 you can throw a third Psionic blade once per short rest so the best use with Action Surge at Rogue 3/Fighter 2 is:
Thrown main attack psychic blade 1d6+dex+2, thrown bonus action psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, thrown action surge psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, and one sneak attack 2d6 (if you qualify for sneak attack. You only get one sneak attack roll per turn, but this means three chances to hit with sneakattack damage).
Then at fighter level 5 you get Extra Attack. So with the third attack from fighter Extra Attack and the Thrown Weapon feat, the best use at Rogue 3/Fighter 5 is:
Thrown main-hand psychic blade 1d6+dex+2, thown bonus action psychic blade 1d4+dex+2, thrown extra attack dagger 1d4+dex+2, and one sneak attack 2d6. The difference is you can throw the extra dagger every round, and there is no penalty for arming and throwing the dagger.
Also, if you are a Psi Warrior, don't forget Psionic Strike can add 1d6+int per Psi Warrior die. Note, the levels shown are just for example. I recommend getting level 4 rogue before multiclassing into fighter 1 for the extra dexterity which improves AC, attack rolls, damage, and skill checks.
The dueling fighting style would give a +2 damage bonus to attacks made with the psychic blades when used in melee or thrown, so long as no other weapons are being held.
the +2 from the “thrown weapon fighting” fighting style would stack with dueling +2 on ranged attacks made with the thrown weapon.
That is a fantastic point since technically you only have one blade out at a time before it disappears, and you draw the dagger as you use it, so all three attacks and any additional attacks should benefit from another +2 damage.
On a side note, for roleplaying or just maximizing psionic benefit, I recommend 13 Rogue-Soulknife/7 Fighter-PsiWarrior which gets you the vast majority of the coolest psionic abilities, six attribute boosts for an easy 20 Dex and 20 Int, plenty of psionic dice (d10/d8), and 7d6 sneak attack. That's just my 2 cents.
It was clarified by jeremy crawford that, yes you do.