Variant human lvl 7 eldritch knight - on reaching lvl 7 swap your lvl 3 non abjuration/evocation spell for cloud of daggers, feats are Crusher, PAM, and Warcaster. EQ is plate, shield, staff. Dueling fighting style (altho blindfighting and darkness are fun for adv / disadv but the party might hate you). 16 str 16 con 16 int, all others 8. The reason for all these feats is they allow you to hit someone with a booming blade and knock them back 5 ft as a reaction when they come within 5', and of course you can bb knock em 5' with your action. Round 1: cloud o daggers, enemy turn they take 4d4, move forward, get hit w reaction bb for 1d6+5+1d8 plus knocked back into cloud o daggers again for 4d4, presumably move out of it again to attack taking 2d8 bb for 8d4+3d8+1d6+5=42 dpr.
Round 2 knock em back into cloud o daggers for 4d4+1d8+1d6+5, their turn take 4d4, move for 2d8, get hit again setting off cloud a 3rd time that round, move out setting off bb again and finally get to attack Señor Stick, for a total of 74. Not bad for a lvl 7 char. You can also get full dmg in round 1 by action surging to drop the daggers behind them then knocking em in. You sort of have to stand there and let them hit you for this to work, but yer AC 20 and warcaster gives u adv on con checks ;) Plus you can eknight swat anybody still nearby with a regular attack from your bonus action (but u can't bb or knock them), or run up and swat your victim in the cloud for a coup de grace for 1d6+5.
This presumes a dm will let u tripple dip on cloud o daggers but it's only 10 dmg each time, the key words being 'enter for first time on a turn, OR start turn there', I count entering 2x on different turns and starting their turn there once.
Why would an enemy in a Cloud of Daggers move straight out of it towards you and not first move sideways out of the Cloud of Daggers then approach you?
Good question. A zombie would be too stupid, a normal enemy would probably fall for it once because most people can't do that trick. After that you'd need em wedged in somehow. What I'm concerned about is finding anywhere that says you can get the 'start of your turn' dmg and the 'entering for the 1st time on a turn' dmg in the same turn, people seem to be split on that and sage advice is just concerned with people sliding em back and forth multiple times in the same turn which is obviously not going to dmg over and over because it's right in the description as 'first time'.
Common misunderstanding, they clarified that here: https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice/compendium-november-2020 "In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell's area of effect AND when the creature starts it's turn there."
As to an intelligent creature moving to the side: absolutely. AFTER they've seen it happen once. Before then the DM is using out of character knowledge and that is just, like, bad form man :D Knockback reaction is like the spanish inquisition nobody expects it. But even after they start avoiding the cloud, the knockback bb reaction combo is still worth doing for its own dmg, and unless they can go WAY around, you can move to where you can knock them back into the cloud with your regular action on your turn so you still get em with it once.
Common misunderstanding, they clarified that here: https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice/compendium-november-2020 "In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell's area of effect AND when the creature starts it's turn there."
As to an intelligent creature moving to the side: absolutely. AFTER they've seen it happen once. Before then the DM is using out of character knowledge and that is just, like, bad form man :D Knockback reaction is like the spanish inquisition nobody expects it. But even after they start avoiding the cloud, the knockback bb reaction combo is still worth doing for its own dmg, and unless they can go WAY around, you can move to where you can knock them back into the cloud with your regular action on your turn so you still get em with it once.
I mean the "Shove" action exists and is available to all creatures, so an enemy moving in such as way as to avoid being able to be shoved into a dangerous effect is just logical. But this is why I always explain the reasoning of the enemies when I DM.
rofl OK good point people so rarely remember to just shove the monster back into the AOE that I forget it is a logical thing for enemies to worry about. But they'd still only be afraid of you doing it on your turn so if the shortest path to where they want to stand is to walk right in front of you they should do it. Anyway the real value of cloud of daggers in general is on a crowded battlefield so if one enemy keeps away from it they just force another to go near.
rofl OK good point people so rarely remember to just shove the monster back into the AOE that I forget it is a logical thing for enemies to worry about. But they'd still only be afraid of you doing it on your turn so if the shortest path to where they want to stand is to walk right in front of you they should do it. Anyway the real value of cloud of daggers in general is on a crowded battlefield so if one enemy keeps away from it they just force another to go near.
Either a crowded battlefield or one with a choke point. Then it's amazing!
Enemy approaches, stops 10 feet away, and stares at you intensely. Make a Wisdom save with that hefty 8 WIS. RIP.
These kinds of builds are fun, but anything that assumes the enemy is going to do a certain thing is not going to work out enough for it to be worth it.
Variant human lvl 7 eldritch knight - on reaching lvl 7 swap your lvl 3 non abjuration/evocation spell for cloud of daggers, feats are Crusher, PAM, and Warcaster. EQ is plate, shield, staff. Dueling fighting style (altho blindfighting and darkness are fun for adv / disadv but the party might hate you). 16 str 16 con 16 int, all others 8. The reason for all these feats is they allow you to hit someone with a booming blade and knock them back 5 ft as a reaction when they come within 5', and of course you can bb knock em 5' with your action.
Round 1: cloud o daggers, enemy turn they take 4d4, move forward, get hit w reaction bb for 1d6+5+1d8 plus knocked back into cloud o daggers again for 4d4, presumably move out of it again to attack taking 2d8 bb for 8d4+3d8+1d6+5=42 dpr.
Round 2 knock em back into cloud o daggers for 4d4+1d8+1d6+5, their turn take 4d4, move for 2d8, get hit again setting off cloud a 3rd time that round, move out setting off bb again and finally get to attack Señor Stick, for a total of 74. Not bad for a lvl 7 char. You can also get full dmg in round 1 by action surging to drop the daggers behind them then knocking em in. You sort of have to stand there and let them hit you for this to work, but yer AC 20 and warcaster gives u adv on con checks ;) Plus you can eknight swat anybody still nearby with a regular attack from your bonus action (but u can't bb or knock them), or run up and swat your victim in the cloud for a coup de grace for 1d6+5.
This presumes a dm will let u tripple dip on cloud o daggers but it's only 10 dmg each time, the key words being 'enter for first time on a turn, OR start turn there', I count entering 2x on different turns and starting their turn there once.
Why would an enemy in a Cloud of Daggers move straight out of it towards you and not first move sideways out of the Cloud of Daggers then approach you?
Good question. A zombie would be too stupid, a normal enemy would probably fall for it once because most people can't do that trick. After that you'd need em wedged in somehow. What I'm concerned about is finding anywhere that says you can get the 'start of your turn' dmg and the 'entering for the 1st time on a turn' dmg in the same turn, people seem to be split on that and sage advice is just concerned with people sliding em back and forth multiple times in the same turn which is obviously not going to dmg over and over because it's right in the description as 'first time'.
Common misunderstanding, they clarified that here:
https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice/compendium-november-2020
"In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell's area of effect AND when the creature starts it's turn there."
As to an intelligent creature moving to the side: absolutely. AFTER they've seen it happen once. Before then the DM is using out of character knowledge and that is just, like, bad form man :D Knockback reaction is like the spanish inquisition nobody expects it. But even after they start avoiding the cloud, the knockback bb reaction combo is still worth doing for its own dmg, and unless they can go WAY around, you can move to where you can knock them back into the cloud with your regular action on your turn so you still get em with it once.
I mean the "Shove" action exists and is available to all creatures, so an enemy moving in such as way as to avoid being able to be shoved into a dangerous effect is just logical. But this is why I always explain the reasoning of the enemies when I DM.
rofl OK good point people so rarely remember to just shove the monster back into the AOE that I forget it is a logical thing for enemies to worry about. But they'd still only be afraid of you doing it on your turn so if the shortest path to where they want to stand is to walk right in front of you they should do it. Anyway the real value of cloud of daggers in general is on a crowded battlefield so if one enemy keeps away from it they just force another to go near.
Either a crowded battlefield or one with a choke point. Then it's amazing!
Enemy approaches, stops 10 feet away, and stares at you intensely. Make a Wisdom save with that hefty 8 WIS. RIP.
These kinds of builds are fun, but anything that assumes the enemy is going to do a certain thing is not going to work out enough for it to be worth it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm