Our party is facing an ancient black dragon, with a brainwashed army of black dragonborn. One of our party members used to be one of the brainwashed.
Party Stats:
Army of 30 melee combatants.
Army of 10 archers.
One head of the guard with unknown abilities.
One character with 4 level moon druid/4 level archfey (pact of the chain)warlock.
One character with 7 level hunter ranger/1 level fighter.
One character with 5 level beastmaster (giant snake)ranger/3 level zealot barbarian.
One 8th level tempest cleric.
One 8th level lore bard.
So far we have:
-using spike growth for the armies controlled by the dragon.
- we send a few pikemen and archers in, have them fake retreat back to the group to draw out the Dragonborns and possibly drag them into the spike growth
- pretend to splits force evenly and have one heavily armed compared to the other groups. Have that one hit the weakest point if we can find it and the others group back up
-give the barbarian (also a black dragonborn with acid resistance) gloves of climbing and rope of climbing to get on the dragons back. He is already in ownership of a dragon slaying sword and an immovable rod.
-druid/warlock cast a concentration spell like spike growth, turn into a mouse, have her imp familiar carry her to an area away for the heat of combat turning himself (and all he carries) invisible to avoid losing concentration.
Looking for ideas from people that are experienced in ancient black dragons, army combats, and these particular classes.
Can you bypass the army using stealth or invisibility or an unusual approach to the dragon’s lair? You might not have to worry about the army if you can take out the head, i.e. the dragon.
Otherwise, the historically successful approach of a small army fighting a large one is to harry them in small skirmishes where you have local superiority in strength due to an ambush, etc. Attack their supply lines and steal their supplies. Never engage the main body of the army. Over time, you can weaken them, draw in your own allies, and achieve a decisive result once the other side is weakened or is drawn out into a tactical mistake.
That's definitely a good thought. We could definitely do some scouting to check the proximity of the army to the dragon.
The supply line attack might actually help a lot. This DM would DEFINITELY appreciate that type of thinking and either exhaust or deplete the army for that kind of thinking. THANK YOU!
On the one hand my initial reaction is "Don't ask for help with very specific strategies on forums because if I provide you with an amazing plan, and you use it, then I've kind of played your character for you" and that kinda sucks. Asking for help with generalities is one thing, but this is your battle plan for a big, important encounter for your game. Isn't it more fun to come up with it yourself?
Well, if you don't mind, then here's what my plan would be.
Find something, an object, that will cause the dragon to go into a rage - something it will want to destroy at all costs.
Set all those NPCs to fight the dragonborn. Line them up on a hill, or whatever. Then when the fight is set to begin, on a nearby hill, light up the thing that the dragon really cares about. The banner of a long hated enemy, dress in the armour of the knight that killed its offspring, write "Dragons are stoopid" in fire, or whatever. Get it to come to you. Fight it away from its minions.
In part this will save you from a battle that involves rolling dice for dozens of NPCs and cannon fodder, and let you get on with the dragon slaying, but it will also isolate you guys, the heroes, and the dragon, the villain, so you can have it out. Nobody is going to enjoy a D&D 5e battle with 80 combatants on the field. It will take 12 hours to play, almost all of which will be the DM rolling NPC vs NPC attacks.
I appreciate the warning ahead of time. But the DM is going off of two of our players were ranking soldiers and one of them WAS a soldier of this dragon, so researching tactics isnt frowned upon because in real life, we are not tacticians. And facing an ancient black dragon at 8th level is gonna be TOUGH regardless of the research we do.
That being said, your advice to lure the dragon away from the NPCs and let them duke it out with each other while we focus on the dragon is an excellent idea. Thank you!
1) Harass and weaken the main body of the army. Not enough to fully entice the whole of the dragonborn army to strik en mass, but enough to cause them to suffer casualties, loose supplies and weaken morale. Draw maybe 5 or so away, catch a patrol in an ambush, that type of thing. Manage engagements so that you outnumber them 3 to 1. Do not allow the size of your force to be known until you want it to. And you don't want it to be known until the enemy can't do anything about it. You want them to think that you are only about 10 strong. Do what you can to cut supply lines and prevent food and fresh water from becoming a resource that they enjoy. Keep them awake for days on end by operating a rotating skirmish to keep them alert and anxious for battle. Try to drive them to starvation, dehydration and exhaustion. These things take time. The method of how this happens is dependent upon terrain, army encampment and enemy capability. Denying the enemy of its main defensive force also denys it the opportunity to take the offensive with the same force.
2) The suggestion to draw the dragon away from the lair is primary in surviving the encounter. Secondary only to disabling its movement and controlling the battlefield. The near perfect solution would be to trap it in a cave system that was not a portion of its lair, small enough to prevent flight and manuvering. You want to deny it access to its lair actions. If you can draw the battle out long enough, you can burn off legendary resistances. Once that happens, nova on saving throws that you know it can fail. The last resort is to go blow for blow with this thing.
3) ***This relies on DM fiat / worldbuilding in its entirety.*** Recently suggested in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons (FToD) is the idea that lair actions are linked to the hoard. If you were able to draw the dragon away from the hoard and then plunder it, it would then fail to become the dragon's lair. (See: Plundering a Hoard)
Overall, the main idea is to remove an ability from the opposition without giving up anything in return. Good luck.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I love these! Thank you so much! And I know the DM (my husband) recently bought Fizbans and has been using it a lot to help build this encounter. So those mechanics might actually be used.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Our party is facing an ancient black dragon, with a brainwashed army of black dragonborn. One of our party members used to be one of the brainwashed.
Party Stats:
Army of 30 melee combatants.
Army of 10 archers.
One head of the guard with unknown abilities.
One character with 4 level moon druid/4 level archfey (pact of the chain)warlock.
One character with 7 level hunter ranger/1 level fighter.
One character with 5 level beastmaster (giant snake)ranger/3 level zealot barbarian.
One 8th level tempest cleric.
One 8th level lore bard.
So far we have:
-using spike growth for the armies controlled by the dragon.
- we send a few pikemen and archers in, have them fake retreat back to the group to draw out the Dragonborns and possibly drag them into the spike growth
- pretend to splits force evenly and have one heavily armed compared to the other groups. Have that one hit the weakest point if we can find it and the others group back up
-give the barbarian (also a black dragonborn with acid resistance) gloves of climbing and rope of climbing to get on the dragons back. He is already in ownership of a dragon slaying sword and an immovable rod.
-druid/warlock cast a concentration spell like spike growth, turn into a mouse, have her imp familiar carry her to an area away for the heat of combat turning himself (and all he carries) invisible to avoid losing concentration.
Looking for ideas from people that are experienced in ancient black dragons, army combats, and these particular classes.
Can you bypass the army using stealth or invisibility or an unusual approach to the dragon’s lair? You might not have to worry about the army if you can take out the head, i.e. the dragon.
Otherwise, the historically successful approach of a small army fighting a large one is to harry them in small skirmishes where you have local superiority in strength due to an ambush, etc. Attack their supply lines and steal their supplies. Never engage the main body of the army. Over time, you can weaken them, draw in your own allies, and achieve a decisive result once the other side is weakened or is drawn out into a tactical mistake.
That's definitely a good thought. We could definitely do some scouting to check the proximity of the army to the dragon.
The supply line attack might actually help a lot. This DM would DEFINITELY appreciate that type of thinking and either exhaust or deplete the army for that kind of thinking. THANK YOU!
You could also use the Dragonborn Barbarian and Moon Druid (wild shaped) to infiltrate their camps to find targets.
I was thinking that but was originally thinking the moon druid (also a warlock) use disguise self.
On the one hand my initial reaction is "Don't ask for help with very specific strategies on forums because if I provide you with an amazing plan, and you use it, then I've kind of played your character for you" and that kinda sucks. Asking for help with generalities is one thing, but this is your battle plan for a big, important encounter for your game. Isn't it more fun to come up with it yourself?
Well, if you don't mind, then here's what my plan would be.
Find something, an object, that will cause the dragon to go into a rage - something it will want to destroy at all costs.
Set all those NPCs to fight the dragonborn. Line them up on a hill, or whatever. Then when the fight is set to begin, on a nearby hill, light up the thing that the dragon really cares about. The banner of a long hated enemy, dress in the armour of the knight that killed its offspring, write "Dragons are stoopid" in fire, or whatever. Get it to come to you. Fight it away from its minions.
In part this will save you from a battle that involves rolling dice for dozens of NPCs and cannon fodder, and let you get on with the dragon slaying, but it will also isolate you guys, the heroes, and the dragon, the villain, so you can have it out. Nobody is going to enjoy a D&D 5e battle with 80 combatants on the field. It will take 12 hours to play, almost all of which will be the DM rolling NPC vs NPC attacks.
I appreciate the warning ahead of time. But the DM is going off of two of our players were ranking soldiers and one of them WAS a soldier of this dragon, so researching tactics isnt frowned upon because in real life, we are not tacticians. And facing an ancient black dragon at 8th level is gonna be TOUGH regardless of the research we do.
That being said, your advice to lure the dragon away from the NPCs and let them duke it out with each other while we focus on the dragon is an excellent idea. Thank you!
I might suggest a couple of strategies.
1) Harass and weaken the main body of the army. Not enough to fully entice the whole of the dragonborn army to strik en mass, but enough to cause them to suffer casualties, loose supplies and weaken morale. Draw maybe 5 or so away, catch a patrol in an ambush, that type of thing. Manage engagements so that you outnumber them 3 to 1. Do not allow the size of your force to be known until you want it to. And you don't want it to be known until the enemy can't do anything about it. You want them to think that you are only about 10 strong. Do what you can to cut supply lines and prevent food and fresh water from becoming a resource that they enjoy. Keep them awake for days on end by operating a rotating skirmish to keep them alert and anxious for battle. Try to drive them to starvation, dehydration and exhaustion. These things take time. The method of how this happens is dependent upon terrain, army encampment and enemy capability. Denying the enemy of its main defensive force also denys it the opportunity to take the offensive with the same force.
2) The suggestion to draw the dragon away from the lair is primary in surviving the encounter. Secondary only to disabling its movement and controlling the battlefield. The near perfect solution would be to trap it in a cave system that was not a portion of its lair, small enough to prevent flight and manuvering. You want to deny it access to its lair actions. If you can draw the battle out long enough, you can burn off legendary resistances. Once that happens, nova on saving throws that you know it can fail. The last resort is to go blow for blow with this thing.
3) ***This relies on DM fiat / worldbuilding in its entirety.*** Recently suggested in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons (FToD) is the idea that lair actions are linked to the hoard. If you were able to draw the dragon away from the hoard and then plunder it, it would then fail to become the dragon's lair. (See: Plundering a Hoard)
Overall, the main idea is to remove an ability from the opposition without giving up anything in return. Good luck.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I love these! Thank you so much! And I know the DM (my husband) recently bought Fizbans and has been using it a lot to help build this encounter. So those mechanics might actually be used.