So, I often see people talk about how awesome the Goodberry spell is, but rarely do they elaborate on what makes it so good, and I'm having trouble seeing just how good it actually is. I'm in need of a bit of hand holding and the kindergarden teacher moment where they crouch down and speak in simple terms to help me understand it. I want to see what everyone else sees but I can't.
Here's what the spell does
When it's cast, you get 10 berries - Ok, not too bad.
When you eat 1, you get 1 hp - How is 1 HP going to help?
Eating one provides you with enough nourishment for 1 day - not bad, no need to carry rations with you
They last for 24 hours before you have to recast the spell to get the effects.
In my mind, the effects seem pretty meh overall. What am I missing, that everyone else seems to know instinctively, that makes everyone one to take this on their Druids and Rangers?
It's mostly just the part where so long as you can set aside one 1st level slot, then the two biggest challenges of a classic "survival" scenario- food and water- are accounted for. And Druids have the advantage of being able to swap this in and out day to day as needed. Honestly, I doubt many Rangers take it or that it's a mainstay on most Druid lists, but it's pretty scenario breaking if the absence of ready food and water for a party is supposed to be a plot point. Plus 10 HP of healing isn't bad at early levels; it's almost always as much or more than you'll get from Cure Wounds for a 1st level slot, albeit less effective for mid-combat healing.
It can come down to the style of game you play. If you track encumbrance and rations, it’s game-changing. One 1st level slot means you’re fine. Rations are heavy. So, for a first level slot, you don’t have to worry about it, everyone has food and water, and you can go through the desert as easily as a forest. And if your DM allows, you spread them around and force feed them to downed allies. Now everyone is a healer.
It can really get around a lot of low-level dangers.
The other key aspect is that the berries last for 24 hours, rather than the normal 8 hour adventuring day. This means that if at the end of your adventuring day you have spell slots left over you can cast Goodberry and the berries will last most likely to the end of the NEXT adventuring day and you have all your spell slots back.
As long as the DM allows you feed a goodberry to an unconcious allay (and every DM I have played with does) healing 1HP is almost as good as healing about 5. Whether you have 1HP or 5 you are able to fight at full output but are likely to go down with 1 hit.
As Xalthu said goodberry can make everyone a healer and that includes familiars (again DM might not allow this but in my experiance nearly all do) this allows the PCs to use their actions and bonus actions to do other things than bringing downed allies back up.
As long as the DM allows you feed a goodberry to an unconcious allay (and every DM I have played with does) healing 1HP is almost as good as healing about 5. Whether you have 1HP or 5 you are able to fight at full output but are likely to go down with 1 hit.
As Xalthu said goodberry can make everyone a healer and that includes familiars (again DM might not allow this but in my experiance nearly all do) this allows the PCs to use their actions and bonus actions to do other things than bringing downed allies back up.
TBH allowing familiars to feed healing potions / goodberries makes them way to powerful. I generally require PCs to spend a significant amount of downtime to try their familiars how to do it before allowing it. There should be a cost to going down.
And then there is the all powerfull Life Cleric with Goodberries.
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.
Now EACH berry restores 4 HP instead of 1, that is 40 points of healing at the cost of just one level 1 spell slot.
I used to argue that Goodberry is a spell that create berries and does not restore hit points, the duration of goodberry is instantaneous so as any healing is after the spell has ended it is the Berry that restore hit points not the spell.
Then SAC said otherwise and my argument has become a house rule.
And then there is the all powerfull Life Cleric with Goodberries.
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.
Now EACH berry restores 4 HP instead of 1, that is 40 points of healing at the cost of just one level 1 spell slot.
Honestly, I'd only allow one berry per casting to benefit. It's not broken but still averages better than using the same slot for Cure Wounds.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Goodberry = 10 hp for 1st level spell PLUS food. You cast it before battle and hand them out to the guy you know is going to need it ahead of time.
Cure Wounds = 1d8+modifier, say +3. 4.5+3=7.5 hp. Upcast to 2nd level = 2d8 +3 = 11. 1st level Goodberry is roughly equivalent to a 2nd level Cure Wounds that you do before battle.
Not to mention the ability to bring an ally or better yet an enemy to exactly 1 hp.
Goodberry is the best healing spell from 1-4 character level. After that, Aura of Vitality starts to rule.
Goodberry was a lifesaver for my first campaign as a ranger. We had a paladin and me - no clerics or druids, so healing was at a premium. Unused spell slots at the end of day turned into goodberry and were used in emergencies. Useful for low level characters. Second campaign I played a cleric with dip in druid, so got goodberry plus the life cleric bonus. Our ranger in this campaign has never used goodberry. I think it depends on the makeup of the group.
I have issues with scoffing down masses of goodberries. They fill your belly for a day....how will you ever eat 3 at once?
They magically provide enough sustenance for a day. Nothing in the description says that they actually fill your belly to the point that you can't eat anything more.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Just to add, you save the cost of rations along with all the healing, feeding. Lastly keeping an enemy alive at 1 hit point can help you get information and often it cost you a berry cast the night before the battle
Eh, rations are rarely a noteworthy expense after the first adventure, if then, and enemy HP and downing doesn't work like PC HP and downing. The default rule is that when an enemy hits 0 HP, they're dead, unless they were downed with a melee attack and the attacker wants to knock them out instead. A DM might choose to apply death saves to them if they wish, but that's not an inherently universal mechanic.
And then there is the all powerfull Life Cleric with Goodberries.
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.
Now EACH berry restores 4 HP instead of 1, that is 40 points of healing at the cost of just one level 1 spell slot.
That is massively OP therefore does not work in many games.
Which also leads to feeding unconscious people. RAW 'A creature can use its action to eat one berry.'
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I'm happy with one slot doing lots of healing, because it's probably going to be out of combat. In combat, using your action to gain 1 HP is pretty suboptimal. Few players will choose to do this.
I rule that unconsious people can't be fed. You can't use a goodberry on an unconscious creature.
Healing potions work, because all they need is that the liquid to pass the lips. That's the magic of potions.
It's mostly just the part where so long as you can set aside one 1st level slot, then the two biggest challenges of a classic "survival" scenario- food and water- are accounted for. And Druids have the advantage of being able to swap this in and out day to day as needed. Honestly, I doubt many Rangers take it or that it's a mainstay on most Druid lists, but it's pretty scenario breaking if the absence of ready food and water for a party is supposed to be a plot point. Plus 10 HP of healing isn't bad at early levels; it's almost always as much or more than you'll get from Cure Wounds for a 1st level slot, albeit less effective for mid-combat healing.
Based on my experience it is common for rangers to take it. There is room for debate on this spell as it states it "provides enough nourishment". Does nourishment mean enough food and water or just enough food?
It's mostly just the part where so long as you can set aside one 1st level slot, then the two biggest challenges of a classic "survival" scenario- food and water- are accounted for. And Druids have the advantage of being able to swap this in and out day to day as needed. Honestly, I doubt many Rangers take it or that it's a mainstay on most Druid lists, but it's pretty scenario breaking if the absence of ready food and water for a party is supposed to be a plot point. Plus 10 HP of healing isn't bad at early levels; it's almost always as much or more than you'll get from Cure Wounds for a 1st level slot, albeit less effective for mid-combat healing.
Based on my experience it is common for rangers to take it. There is room for debate on this spell as it states it "provides enough nourishment". Does nourishment mean enough food and water or just enough food?
I interpret it as both food & water since it says it is sufficient "to sustain a creature for 1 day". But I also interpret "sustain" as "keep alive" not necessarily keep in perfect health & with enough energy to climb a mountain or run a marathon. So if you're out adventuring, it will prevent you from starving to death but it won't necessarily prevent you from gaining exhaustion or other debuffs if that is all you are eating for weeks at a time.
So, I often see people talk about how awesome the Goodberry spell is, but rarely do they elaborate on what makes it so good, and I'm having trouble seeing just how good it actually is. I'm in need of a bit of hand holding and the kindergarden teacher moment where they crouch down and speak in simple terms to help me understand it. I want to see what everyone else sees but I can't.
Here's what the spell does
When it's cast, you get 10 berries - Ok, not too bad.
When you eat 1, you get 1 hp - How is 1 HP going to help?
Eating one provides you with enough nourishment for 1 day - not bad, no need to carry rations with you
They last for 24 hours before you have to recast the spell to get the effects.
In my mind, the effects seem pretty meh overall. What am I missing, that everyone else seems to know instinctively, that makes everyone one to take this on their Druids and Rangers?
It's mostly just the part where so long as you can set aside one 1st level slot, then the two biggest challenges of a classic "survival" scenario- food and water- are accounted for. And Druids have the advantage of being able to swap this in and out day to day as needed. Honestly, I doubt many Rangers take it or that it's a mainstay on most Druid lists, but it's pretty scenario breaking if the absence of ready food and water for a party is supposed to be a plot point. Plus 10 HP of healing isn't bad at early levels; it's almost always as much or more than you'll get from Cure Wounds for a 1st level slot, albeit less effective for mid-combat healing.
Goodberry's healing can be split between multiple characters. That's very efficient at low levels when you have few spell slots.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It can come down to the style of game you play. If you track encumbrance and rations, it’s game-changing. One 1st level slot means you’re fine. Rations are heavy. So, for a first level slot, you don’t have to worry about it, everyone has food and water, and you can go through the desert as easily as a forest.
And if your DM allows, you spread them around and force feed them to downed allies. Now everyone is a healer.
It can really get around a lot of low-level dangers.
The other key aspect is that the berries last for 24 hours, rather than the normal 8 hour adventuring day. This means that if at the end of your adventuring day you have spell slots left over you can cast Goodberry and the berries will last most likely to the end of the NEXT adventuring day and you have all your spell slots back.
As long as the DM allows you feed a goodberry to an unconcious allay (and every DM I have played with does) healing 1HP is almost as good as healing about 5. Whether you have 1HP or 5 you are able to fight at full output but are likely to go down with 1 hit.
As Xalthu said goodberry can make everyone a healer and that includes familiars (again DM might not allow this but in my experiance nearly all do) this allows the PCs to use their actions and bonus actions to do other things than bringing downed allies back up.
TBH allowing familiars to feed healing potions / goodberries makes them way to powerful. I generally require PCs to spend a significant amount of downtime to try their familiars how to do it before allowing it. There should be a cost to going down.
And then there is the all powerfull Life Cleric with Goodberries.
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.
Now EACH berry restores 4 HP instead of 1, that is 40 points of healing at the cost of just one level 1 spell slot.
Correct but I do not like that combo.
I used to argue that Goodberry is a spell that create berries and does not restore hit points, the duration of goodberry is instantaneous so as any healing is after the spell has ended it is the Berry that restore hit points not the spell.
Then SAC said otherwise and my argument has become a house rule.
Honestly, I'd only allow one berry per casting to benefit. It's not broken but still averages better than using the same slot for Cure Wounds.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Goodberry = 10 hp for 1st level spell PLUS food. You cast it before battle and hand them out to the guy you know is going to need it ahead of time.
Cure Wounds = 1d8+modifier, say +3. 4.5+3=7.5 hp. Upcast to 2nd level = 2d8 +3 = 11. 1st level Goodberry is roughly equivalent to a 2nd level Cure Wounds that you do before battle.
Not to mention the ability to bring an ally or better yet an enemy to exactly 1 hp.
Goodberry is the best healing spell from 1-4 character level. After that, Aura of Vitality starts to rule.
Goodberry was a lifesaver for my first campaign as a ranger. We had a paladin and me - no clerics or druids, so healing was at a premium. Unused spell slots at the end of day turned into goodberry and were used in emergencies. Useful for low level characters. Second campaign I played a cleric with dip in druid, so got goodberry plus the life cleric bonus. Our ranger in this campaign has never used goodberry. I think it depends on the makeup of the group.
I have issues with scoffing down masses of goodberries. They fill your belly for a day....how will you ever eat 3 at once?
They magically provide enough sustenance for a day. Nothing in the description says that they actually fill your belly to the point that you can't eat anything more.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Just to add, you save the cost of rations along with all the healing, feeding. Lastly keeping an enemy alive at 1 hit point can help you get information and often it cost you a berry cast the night before the battle
Eh, rations are rarely a noteworthy expense after the first adventure, if then, and enemy HP and downing doesn't work like PC HP and downing. The default rule is that when an enemy hits 0 HP, they're dead, unless they were downed with a melee attack and the attacker wants to knock them out instead. A DM might choose to apply death saves to them if they wish, but that's not an inherently universal mechanic.
That is massively OP therefore does not work in many games.
Which also leads to feeding unconscious people. RAW 'A creature can use its action to eat one berry.'
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I'm happy with one slot doing lots of healing, because it's probably going to be out of combat. In combat, using your action to gain 1 HP is pretty suboptimal. Few players will choose to do this.
I rule that unconsious people can't be fed. You can't use a goodberry on an unconscious creature.
Healing potions work, because all they need is that the liquid to pass the lips. That's the magic of potions.
Based on my experience it is common for rangers to take it. There is room for debate on this spell as it states it "provides enough nourishment". Does nourishment mean enough food and water or just enough food?
I interpret it as both food & water since it says it is sufficient "to sustain a creature for 1 day". But I also interpret "sustain" as "keep alive" not necessarily keep in perfect health & with enough energy to climb a mountain or run a marathon. So if you're out adventuring, it will prevent you from starving to death but it won't necessarily prevent you from gaining exhaustion or other debuffs if that is all you are eating for weeks at a time.