I’m running Dragon of Icespire Peak for new players as a new DM. It’s been really fun and going really well. The main feedback I’ve received from my players is that they aren’t always sure what to do next, and can’t always tell what is a main quest versus a side quest. I’ve brought this on myself a bit, since I didn’t use the quest board function as written in the module, because it seemed boring. Instead they’ve been getting quests from Harbin himself, and then other NPCs since they’ve taken a dislike to Harbin (as intended by me) I’ve also incorporated some characters and elements from LMoP to flesh out the world, and personalized a few quests to align with character backgrounds. I’m playing the beginning as more sandbox with the intention to make it a little more streamlined towards the end, using the blue dragon revision. I’m guessing this feedback means my players are new enough to need a little more railroading in order to progress. Any tips on how to do this effectively without the job board function?
I would tell the players not to worry about what is "main" or "side", instead focusing just on what they want to do next/ what their character thinks is most important.
I agree. The players get to decide what's the most important thing to do. Sometimes quests are timebound like the hunting lodge. If they don't get there soon enough, it gets destroyed. Most things in DoIP don't matter for timing. The job board was just to help out new DMs. It's fine if you're not using it and having Harbin (or other NPCs) give quests directly does the same thing. DoIP is weird because the dragon seems to be the main focus, and though it is the end goal, most of the story and quests have to do with orcs and Talos cult. I mean the book has conditions to where an NPC rides into town at the end and tells them where the dragon is. So your party might be confused on why they are messing around with orcs and cultists when they should be dragon hunting. If that's the case, you can just tell them that as long as they are completing quests, the story is moving forward.
It's up to the players to figure out what the main quest is. You just have to give them the clues, but it's up to them to pick up on. I haven't read Dragon of Icespire Peak. Is there an overarching goal they should have learned about? Make sure they know what that is. Don't just make sure your NPCs told them. Make sure they paid attention. If they know the goal and listen to NPCs tell them about quests, they should sometimes be able to figure out if the quest is optional or probably required for the main quest line. Or sometimes not. Sometimes you just have to try a quest and see what comes of it.
One thing that might help is to encourage the players to have PC to PC conversations at least from time to time. If you find some downtime like in a tavern for a meal, on a long overland journey, etc., prompt the players with a prompt like, "What do you talk to each other about during this journey?" If no one volunteers to start the conversation, you can suggest some topics. By talking to each other, players will clear up some misconceptions they misheard in your descriptions or NPC dialogue.
If your players are feeling lost because they can't identify main quests from side quests, assure them that there are no side quests in DnD. At least not like they might think about them from video games. It's all part of the character's journey.
On top of the other good advice here, I would add that you can modify the story. Make every quest part of the main quest. Find reasons to tie in the 'side' adventures into the main plot. Have the same bad guy pulling all the strings. Have the environment tell the story of how the main quest is affecting the world. Leave clues everywhere that lead back to the same thing. Letters to the orc leaders, symbols on shields, strange weather. The more it is reinforced, the more they will pick up on it. And the more it will all feel important.
One way to think of it is that "Quests are for the DM. Adventures are for players."
The DM presents the characters with knowledge of the world, what is going on and in some cases NPCs who might ask them for help or give them some information that might spur them into action.
However, the decisions are up to the players based on their character knowledge. There isn't a "main" quest or a "side" quest - there is only what the characters decide to do with the information they have available. This puts the onus on the DM to provide the players/characters with the information they need to make decisions OR what they need to do to obtain the information they need.
In DoIP, especially with the blue dragon modifications, there is a good narrative connection between several events and missions that the players can choose to complete.
Keep in mind though, that with a real sandbox style of play, and depending on the characters in the group, they might decide to NOT hunt down the dragon. So, that is also something to keep in mind.
You might point out that the “main quest” is the culminating one ending the module- EVERYTHING else is a “side quest” prepping them to be ready for the “main quest”.
This is all super helpful advice thank you all! I definitely think a big part of the problem is that the way the module is written is that it sends them on a quest to slay the dragon and then proceeds to do a bunch of things that seem unrelated. They definitely latched on to the storyline with the cult of Talos but haven’t quite figured out how it’s related to the dragon, I will try to emphasize that more as we go on. Thanks all for the help!
This is all super helpful advice thank you all! I definitely think a big part of the problem is that the way the module is written is that it sends them on a quest to slay the dragon and then proceeds to do a bunch of things that seem unrelated. They definitely latched on to the storyline with the cult of Talos but haven’t quite figured out how it’s related to the dragon, I will try to emphasize that more as we go on. Thanks all for the help!
The dragon is the side-quest if you continue with Storm Lord's Wrath, Sleeping Dragon's Wake and Divine Contention.
Some campaigns do have multiple main threads that run for a long time in parallel; not always directly connected.
My biggest piece of advice would be "keep the world ticking." No matter what your players decide to do, make sure that the world and all of its plots continue on as intended. This way, the players will organically begin to discover what needs their attention most. And, agreeing with the points above, their choices are the most important! Forget the Main Quest v. Side Quest mentality and just know that the characters journeys are always more important than the destination - that's why its adventuring! :)
By making sure the world continues to turn, as they say, you help paint a living, breathing experience where player choice will be captivating in and of itself. In my experience, nothing is worse for a player (or a DM) than having encounters perpetually stuck in stasis until the PC's decide to engage them.
If the party heard whispers that an assassin may be going after the king at the festival in the city square tomorrow night, but they choose to explore the cave in the nearby forest that night instead of following up on that lead, then they should return to a city that has just dealt with an assassinations attempt. Perhaps the assassin's plot was foiled and the culprit captured. Or, perhaps the assassin succeeded and now the king is dead. The players will soon forgo the "what do we do next?" mindset and start to weigh choices based on the goings-on in the world and not on what the "main quest line" should be.
Good luck and happy gaming!
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I’m running Dragon of Icespire Peak for new players as a new DM. It’s been really fun and going really well. The main feedback I’ve received from my players is that they aren’t always sure what to do next, and can’t always tell what is a main quest versus a side quest. I’ve brought this on myself a bit, since I didn’t use the quest board function as written in the module, because it seemed boring. Instead they’ve been getting quests from Harbin himself, and then other NPCs since they’ve taken a dislike to Harbin (as intended by me) I’ve also incorporated some characters and elements from LMoP to flesh out the world, and personalized a few quests to align with character backgrounds. I’m playing the beginning as more sandbox with the intention to make it a little more streamlined towards the end, using the blue dragon revision. I’m guessing this feedback means my players are new enough to need a little more railroading in order to progress. Any tips on how to do this effectively without the job board function?
I would tell the players not to worry about what is "main" or "side", instead focusing just on what they want to do next/ what their character thinks is most important.
I agree. The players get to decide what's the most important thing to do. Sometimes quests are timebound like the hunting lodge. If they don't get there soon enough, it gets destroyed. Most things in DoIP don't matter for timing. The job board was just to help out new DMs. It's fine if you're not using it and having Harbin (or other NPCs) give quests directly does the same thing. DoIP is weird because the dragon seems to be the main focus, and though it is the end goal, most of the story and quests have to do with orcs and Talos cult. I mean the book has conditions to where an NPC rides into town at the end and tells them where the dragon is. So your party might be confused on why they are messing around with orcs and cultists when they should be dragon hunting. If that's the case, you can just tell them that as long as they are completing quests, the story is moving forward.
It's up to the players to figure out what the main quest is. You just have to give them the clues, but it's up to them to pick up on. I haven't read Dragon of Icespire Peak. Is there an overarching goal they should have learned about? Make sure they know what that is. Don't just make sure your NPCs told them. Make sure they paid attention. If they know the goal and listen to NPCs tell them about quests, they should sometimes be able to figure out if the quest is optional or probably required for the main quest line. Or sometimes not. Sometimes you just have to try a quest and see what comes of it.
One thing that might help is to encourage the players to have PC to PC conversations at least from time to time. If you find some downtime like in a tavern for a meal, on a long overland journey, etc., prompt the players with a prompt like, "What do you talk to each other about during this journey?" If no one volunteers to start the conversation, you can suggest some topics. By talking to each other, players will clear up some misconceptions they misheard in your descriptions or NPC dialogue.
If your players are feeling lost because they can't identify main quests from side quests, assure them that there are no side quests in DnD. At least not like they might think about them from video games. It's all part of the character's journey.
On top of the other good advice here, I would add that you can modify the story. Make every quest part of the main quest. Find reasons to tie in the 'side' adventures into the main plot. Have the same bad guy pulling all the strings. Have the environment tell the story of how the main quest is affecting the world. Leave clues everywhere that lead back to the same thing. Letters to the orc leaders, symbols on shields, strange weather. The more it is reinforced, the more they will pick up on it. And the more it will all feel important.
One way to think of it is that "Quests are for the DM. Adventures are for players."
The DM presents the characters with knowledge of the world, what is going on and in some cases NPCs who might ask them for help or give them some information that might spur them into action.
However, the decisions are up to the players based on their character knowledge. There isn't a "main" quest or a "side" quest - there is only what the characters decide to do with the information they have available. This puts the onus on the DM to provide the players/characters with the information they need to make decisions OR what they need to do to obtain the information they need.
In DoIP, especially with the blue dragon modifications, there is a good narrative connection between several events and missions that the players can choose to complete.
Keep in mind though, that with a real sandbox style of play, and depending on the characters in the group, they might decide to NOT hunt down the dragon. So, that is also something to keep in mind.
You might point out that the “main quest” is the culminating one ending the module- EVERYTHING else is a “side quest” prepping them to be ready for the “main quest”.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
This is all super helpful advice thank you all! I definitely think a big part of the problem is that the way the module is written is that it sends them on a quest to slay the dragon and then proceeds to do a bunch of things that seem unrelated. They definitely latched on to the storyline with the cult of Talos but haven’t quite figured out how it’s related to the dragon, I will try to emphasize that more as we go on. Thanks all for the help!
The dragon is the side-quest if you continue with Storm Lord's Wrath, Sleeping Dragon's Wake and Divine Contention.
Some campaigns do have multiple main threads that run for a long time in parallel; not always directly connected.
My biggest piece of advice would be "keep the world ticking." No matter what your players decide to do, make sure that the world and all of its plots continue on as intended. This way, the players will organically begin to discover what needs their attention most. And, agreeing with the points above, their choices are the most important! Forget the Main Quest v. Side Quest mentality and just know that the characters journeys are always more important than the destination - that's why its adventuring! :)
By making sure the world continues to turn, as they say, you help paint a living, breathing experience where player choice will be captivating in and of itself. In my experience, nothing is worse for a player (or a DM) than having encounters perpetually stuck in stasis until the PC's decide to engage them.
If the party heard whispers that an assassin may be going after the king at the festival in the city square tomorrow night, but they choose to explore the cave in the nearby forest that night instead of following up on that lead, then they should return to a city that has just dealt with an assassinations attempt. Perhaps the assassin's plot was foiled and the culprit captured. Or, perhaps the assassin succeeded and now the king is dead. The players will soon forgo the "what do we do next?" mindset and start to weigh choices based on the goings-on in the world and not on what the "main quest line" should be.
Good luck and happy gaming!