I'm playing a support tomelock in a combat-light campaign, and I'm the only outright caster.
I've tried to cover as many foreseeable needs as possible with my spell choices. We just reached L9 which I didn't expect, and I'm looking at a tough choice. Everyone is suggesting I take Greater Invisibility, but I can't see how that would compete with my other combat concentration spells: Bless (buff), Banishment (control), Sickening Radiance (aoe/debuff), Fear (control/debuff) and possibly Fly (dmg avoidance). I'm trying to think of the situation in combat where Greater Invisibility would be better than Banishment or Bless or Sickening. That's not actually my question tho.
I'm just curious what all the casters' mental flowcharts might be for picking which concentration spell to cast. Very generally, especially do-it-all casters, what's your process if you have a couple different spells to choose from in any given moment that are pretty equal for that moment? I might just be having perfection paralysis. Cheers!
Honestly, as a Warlock you might want to just pick a few reliable effects and stick with them. Going wide trying to cover a bunch of different potential options just leads to decision paralysis or realizing just after you cast that something else would have been a better pick. Also, unless you've been encountering a bunch of extraplanar beings you can properly Banish, Greater Invisibility on whoever makes the most attack rolls a turn will probably work better for actually advancing combat to its conclusion. Fly is also really not a good combat spell unless you're only fighting melee enemies, since one blown concentration save or a Dispel Magic and you're doing an Icarus impression.
Regarding my "flow chart"; if it's a scattered mob or I'm expecting a number of low intensity encounters I use Hex; if there's a high AC target or I'm worried about getting too much attention I use Shadow of Moil; if they're bunched together I use Faerie Fire or Hypnotic Pattern depending on how dangerous I think they are; and if I want to divert one particular target or try to sow some confusion I use Enemies Abound or Phantasmal Force, depending on the exact situation. Hex and Shadow of Moil are my go-to's, the rest are just if I see a good opportunity. I've also got Banishment, but honestly I don't use it much (just putting someone in time-out is of limited value when they're unreachable for the duration, and actually punting a creature back is very situational).
I either run something that will have relevance throughout the encounter or immensely buff/debuff someone; bless, bane and hex are my go-to's. Haste or greater invisibility are very powerful on a nova class like a paladin or rogue, though as mentioned, faerie fire gives advantage to the whole party's attacks against a clustered group of targets.
These choices can be made easier if we know what your party consists of, as you'd probably tailor your spell list to the group and what you expect out of a campaign.
I'm playing a support tomelock in a combat-light campaign, and I'm the only outright caster.
I've tried to cover as many foreseeable needs as possible with my spell choices. We just reached L9 which I didn't expect, and I'm looking at a tough choice. Everyone is suggesting I take Greater Invisibility, but I can't see how that would compete with my other combat concentration spells: Bless (buff), Banishment (control), Sickening Radiance (aoe/debuff), Fear (control/debuff) and possibly Fly (dmg avoidance). I'm trying to think of the situation in combat where Greater Invisibility would be better than Banishment or Bless or Sickening. That's not actually my question tho.
I'm just curious what all the casters' mental flowcharts might be for picking which concentration spell to cast. Very generally, especially do-it-all casters, what's your process if you have a couple different spells to choose from in any given moment that are pretty equal for that moment? I might just be having perfection paralysis. Cheers!
I tend to view invisibility (greater or otherwise) as a non-combat utility spell as much as a combat spell, tbh. Cast it when you're searching a room and the doorknob suddenly jiggles as the guards do their rounds, or to give the rogue an extra boost for a scouting run, that sort of thing. If combat does break out, the invisible person still gets that edge out of the gate before you switch to a different concentration spell
As for which spell to cast when, I try to focus on solving one immediate issue. Fighting a hydra? Cast slow on it so it doesn't get umpteen attacks. Fighting multiple really strong enemies? Cast banishment on one to swing the odds the party's way against the other(s). Etc.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I tend to prioritize spells that make things more fun for my allies. So I try to avoid spells that produce large areas of dangerous terrain, unless I'm playing with allies who have abilities to move enemies around the battlefield.
Greater invisibility isn’t about combat, it’s about sneaking past the guards so you can avoid combat altogether. To my mind, it’s complimentary with those other spells, not in competition with them.
Greater invisibility isn’t about combat, it’s about sneaking past the guards so you can avoid combat altogether. To my mind, it’s complimentary with those other spells, not in competition with them.
No, it’s solid in combat too. Put it on a Fighter or Monk and just watch the crits come rolling in, for starters. Or put it on a Rogue with a decent Stealth score and unless the enemy has something like Blindsight, they’re unlikely to even find the Rogue between attacks.
Greater invisibility isn’t about combat, it’s about sneaking past the guards so you can avoid combat altogether. To my mind, it’s complimentary with those other spells, not in competition with them.
The important thing about Greater Invisibility compared to regular Invisibility is the fact that the Invisible character can continue to attack and cast spells under Greater Invisibility, whereas standard Invisibility ends if you ever attack or cast spells. That's also why GI has such a drastically shorter duration of only 1 minute, versus 1 hour. I feel like that's generally a good measure to tell whether or not a spell is intended for combat... 1 minute out of combat isn't very useful, but in combat that's 10 rounds. So Invisibility is ideal for exploration and stealth, since you could reasonably expect any character to be able to accomplish most challenges you might expect within an hour, while if you try to use Greater Invisibility as your primary stealth option for sneaking past guards, it might get you past a single room of guards, but you're not, for example, going to be able to use it to escape a dungeon or something.
A tad off topic, but greater invisibility has a notably short duration, while regular invisibility lasts quite a long time. Based on these, the former is meant for combat; the latter, an escape option, scouting or any other non-combat shenanigans
First check with your campaign on the spell selection. Find out how they feel Greater invisibility or any other spell would be utilized.
As for the process:
1) Evaluate the battlefield (dimensions, pitfalls, coverage, etc.) 2) Consider initiative 3) Evaluate the positioning and formation of the characters 4) Establish objective: a. Buff b.Control c. Debuff d. Utility e. Ward f. etc. (note: several of options can apply to a single spell. The goal here is to have a clear objective or two for your battle strategy)
5) Select target(s) 6) Spell slot availability 7) Planned ACTION for the next round 8) Spell duration/potential of spell ending a. revisit item 6) and consider options 9) Monitor the progress of the round. Repeat items #2-9 based on the outcome of characters' turns.
If there isn't a preferable option for bullets 4-8, then return to the previous item and select a different option. For example, if you get to item 5 but realize your can hit the desired target then return to item 4 to determine a different strategy.
First check with your campaign on the spell selection. Find out how they feel Greater invisibility or any other spell would be utilized.
As for the process:
1) Evaluate the battlefield (dimensions, pitfalls, coverage, etc.) 2) Consider initiative 3) Evaluate the positioning and formation of the characters 4) Establish objective: a. Buff b.Control c. Debuff d. Utility e. Ward f. etc. (note: several of options can apply to a single spell. The goal here is to have a clear objective or two for your battle strategy)
5) Select target(s) 6) Spell slot availability 7) Planned ACTION for the next round 8) Spell duration/potential of spell ending a. revisit item 6) and consider options 9) Monitor the progress of the round. Repeat items #2-9 based on the outcome of characters' turns.
If there isn't a preferable option for bullets 4-8, then return to the previous item and select a different option. For example, if you get to item 5 but realize your can hit the desired target then return to item 4 to determine a different strategy.
More power to you if you can actually think like this during a game session, but I'm never going to slow down combat by going through a multi-point checklist to try and find the "optimal" option in every situation
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Do I already have a Concentration spell I use in almost every fight? If yes, then I don't pick up another.
For instance, my first bard character had Stinking Cloud. I used it constantly. I had other concentration spell, and never used them. So I stopped having more than one.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Regarding my "flow chart"; if it's a scattered mob or I'm expecting a number of low intensity encounters I use Hex; if there's a high AC target or I'm worried about getting too much attention I use Shadow of Moil; if they're bunched together I use Faerie Fire or Hypnotic Pattern depending on how dangerous I think they are; and if I want to divert one particular target or try to sow some confusion I use Enemies Abound or Phantasmal Force, depending on the exact situation. Hex and Shadow of Moil are my go-to's, the rest are just if I see a good opportunity. I've also got Banishment, but honestly I don't use it much (just putting someone in time-out is of limited value when they're unreachable for the duration, and actually punting a creature back is very situational).
I'll add a vote for Enemies Abound, it's such a fun spell. I rarely if ever use it in close combat, it's a bit unpredictable that way. I take advantage of the 120' range and use it like those poison darts in the early Assassin's Creed games that would cause the target to go nuts and attack everyone around them. Approaching an enemy stockade? Use it at one of the guards on the wall, then sit back and smile as the DM has to attack his own guys for a minute and thin out the opposing force. I did that with an orc camp and the DM rolled two crits against himself within three rounds, it was glorious :)
With your very limited spell slots you're going to have way more spells than slots. IMO that's when it's good to load up on the more circumstantial spells. For concentration spells, with your limited slots I would pick spells you like (for fun, effectiveness, or whatever your after) - but also the spells that are the most reliable. I would less inclined to pick single target save spells. It would suck to expend one of your two total spell slots, only to have it be a dud.
SeanJP ha some good points, especially about circumstantial spells. Yes, you'll want a couple of "old reliables". I've always been partial to Shatter, the base Warlock list doesn't have a ton of AoE so it's nice to have one with an uncommon damage type. And Misty Step is a great way to BAMF out of trouble, possibly upgrading to Thunder Step later on which can not only get you out of trouble but can help you rescue a teammate. But then mix it up a bit with the types of damage, which saving throws you're forcing, etc. Not being a Wizard or Sorcerer, you can't just spam Fireball and ask questions later, so spells with ongoing effects are really nice. And of course, look for spells that scale, since your spell slots do so automatically. Nice thing about Warlocks, you don't have to make sure and keep some low-level spells to avoid wasted spell slots. One spell that I'm always conflicted on is Hex. Yeah, it can be a great single-target damage buff, and if you have a grapple-happy teammate it can be nice to nerf your targets attempts to break it, but it also blocks SO many other spells by requiring Concentration. Probably still worth having, for when you just want to hit stuff harder, it's great for picking off the little guys one by one before training it on the Big Bad.
While greater Invisibility is nice for combat, it only lasts 1 minute. Normal invisibility is better for exploration because as a warlock you cast it on the mayority of your group and it lasts for an hour.
I'm playing a support tomelock in a combat-light campaign, and I'm the only outright caster.
I've tried to cover as many foreseeable needs as possible with my spell choices. We just reached L9 which I didn't expect, and I'm looking at a tough choice. Everyone is suggesting I take Greater Invisibility, but I can't see how that would compete with my other combat concentration spells: Bless (buff), Banishment (control), Sickening Radiance (aoe/debuff), Fear (control/debuff) and possibly Fly (dmg avoidance). I'm trying to think of the situation in combat where Greater Invisibility would be better than Banishment or Bless or Sickening. That's not actually my question tho.
I'm just curious what all the casters' mental flowcharts might be for picking which concentration spell to cast. Very generally, especially do-it-all casters, what's your process if you have a couple different spells to choose from in any given moment that are pretty equal for that moment? I might just be having perfection paralysis. Cheers!
Honestly, as a Warlock you might want to just pick a few reliable effects and stick with them. Going wide trying to cover a bunch of different potential options just leads to decision paralysis or realizing just after you cast that something else would have been a better pick. Also, unless you've been encountering a bunch of extraplanar beings you can properly Banish, Greater Invisibility on whoever makes the most attack rolls a turn will probably work better for actually advancing combat to its conclusion. Fly is also really not a good combat spell unless you're only fighting melee enemies, since one blown concentration save or a Dispel Magic and you're doing an Icarus impression.
Regarding my "flow chart"; if it's a scattered mob or I'm expecting a number of low intensity encounters I use Hex; if there's a high AC target or I'm worried about getting too much attention I use Shadow of Moil; if they're bunched together I use Faerie Fire or Hypnotic Pattern depending on how dangerous I think they are; and if I want to divert one particular target or try to sow some confusion I use Enemies Abound or Phantasmal Force, depending on the exact situation. Hex and Shadow of Moil are my go-to's, the rest are just if I see a good opportunity. I've also got Banishment, but honestly I don't use it much (just putting someone in time-out is of limited value when they're unreachable for the duration, and actually punting a creature back is very situational).
I either run something that will have relevance throughout the encounter or immensely buff/debuff someone; bless, bane and hex are my go-to's. Haste or greater invisibility are very powerful on a nova class like a paladin or rogue, though as mentioned, faerie fire gives advantage to the whole party's attacks against a clustered group of targets.
These choices can be made easier if we know what your party consists of, as you'd probably tailor your spell list to the group and what you expect out of a campaign.
I tend to view invisibility (greater or otherwise) as a non-combat utility spell as much as a combat spell, tbh. Cast it when you're searching a room and the doorknob suddenly jiggles as the guards do their rounds, or to give the rogue an extra boost for a scouting run, that sort of thing. If combat does break out, the invisible person still gets that edge out of the gate before you switch to a different concentration spell
As for which spell to cast when, I try to focus on solving one immediate issue. Fighting a hydra? Cast slow on it so it doesn't get umpteen attacks. Fighting multiple really strong enemies? Cast banishment on one to swing the odds the party's way against the other(s). Etc.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I tend to prioritize spells that make things more fun for my allies. So I try to avoid spells that produce large areas of dangerous terrain, unless I'm playing with allies who have abilities to move enemies around the battlefield.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Greater invisibility isn’t about combat, it’s about sneaking past the guards so you can avoid combat altogether. To my mind, it’s complimentary with those other spells, not in competition with them.
No, it’s solid in combat too. Put it on a Fighter or Monk and just watch the crits come rolling in, for starters. Or put it on a Rogue with a decent Stealth score and unless the enemy has something like Blindsight, they’re unlikely to even find the Rogue between attacks.
The important thing about Greater Invisibility compared to regular Invisibility is the fact that the Invisible character can continue to attack and cast spells under Greater Invisibility, whereas standard Invisibility ends if you ever attack or cast spells. That's also why GI has such a drastically shorter duration of only 1 minute, versus 1 hour. I feel like that's generally a good measure to tell whether or not a spell is intended for combat... 1 minute out of combat isn't very useful, but in combat that's 10 rounds. So Invisibility is ideal for exploration and stealth, since you could reasonably expect any character to be able to accomplish most challenges you might expect within an hour, while if you try to use Greater Invisibility as your primary stealth option for sneaking past guards, it might get you past a single room of guards, but you're not, for example, going to be able to use it to escape a dungeon or something.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
A tad off topic, but greater invisibility has a notably short duration, while regular invisibility lasts quite a long time. Based on these, the former is meant for combat; the latter, an escape option, scouting or any other non-combat shenanigans
First check with your campaign on the spell selection. Find out how they feel Greater invisibility or any other spell would be utilized.
As for the process:
1) Evaluate the battlefield (dimensions, pitfalls, coverage, etc.)
2) Consider initiative
3) Evaluate the positioning and formation of the characters
4) Establish objective:
a. Buff
b.Control
c. Debuff
d. Utility
e. Ward
f. etc.
(note: several of options can apply to a single spell. The goal here is to have a clear objective or two for your battle strategy)
5) Select target(s)
6) Spell slot availability
7) Planned ACTION for the next round
8) Spell duration/potential of spell ending
a. revisit item 6) and consider options
9) Monitor the progress of the round. Repeat items #2-9 based on the outcome of characters' turns.
If there isn't a preferable option for bullets 4-8, then return to the previous item and select a different option. For example, if you get to item 5 but realize your can hit the desired target then return to item 4 to determine a different strategy.
More power to you if you can actually think like this during a game session, but I'm never going to slow down combat by going through a multi-point checklist to try and find the "optimal" option in every situation
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Mine is this:
Do I already have a Concentration spell I use in almost every fight? If yes, then I don't pick up another.
For instance, my first bard character had Stinking Cloud. I used it constantly. I had other concentration spell, and never used them. So I stopped having more than one.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I'll add a vote for Enemies Abound, it's such a fun spell. I rarely if ever use it in close combat, it's a bit unpredictable that way. I take advantage of the 120' range and use it like those poison darts in the early Assassin's Creed games that would cause the target to go nuts and attack everyone around them. Approaching an enemy stockade? Use it at one of the guards on the wall, then sit back and smile as the DM has to attack his own guys for a minute and thin out the opposing force. I did that with an orc camp and the DM rolled two crits against himself within three rounds, it was glorious :)
With your very limited spell slots you're going to have way more spells than slots. IMO that's when it's good to load up on the more circumstantial spells. For concentration spells, with your limited slots I would pick spells you like (for fun, effectiveness, or whatever your after) - but also the spells that are the most reliable. I would less inclined to pick single target save spells. It would suck to expend one of your two total spell slots, only to have it be a dud.
SeanJP ha some good points, especially about circumstantial spells. Yes, you'll want a couple of "old reliables". I've always been partial to Shatter, the base Warlock list doesn't have a ton of AoE so it's nice to have one with an uncommon damage type. And Misty Step is a great way to BAMF out of trouble, possibly upgrading to Thunder Step later on which can not only get you out of trouble but can help you rescue a teammate. But then mix it up a bit with the types of damage, which saving throws you're forcing, etc. Not being a Wizard or Sorcerer, you can't just spam Fireball and ask questions later, so spells with ongoing effects are really nice. And of course, look for spells that scale, since your spell slots do so automatically. Nice thing about Warlocks, you don't have to make sure and keep some low-level spells to avoid wasted spell slots. One spell that I'm always conflicted on is Hex. Yeah, it can be a great single-target damage buff, and if you have a grapple-happy teammate it can be nice to nerf your targets attempts to break it, but it also blocks SO many other spells by requiring Concentration. Probably still worth having, for when you just want to hit stuff harder, it's great for picking off the little guys one by one before training it on the Big Bad.
While greater Invisibility is nice for combat, it only lasts 1 minute. Normal invisibility is better for exploration because as a warlock you cast it on the mayority of your group and it lasts for an hour.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]