The current build I am working on is a fighter/warlock. . While I plan to run a rapier/scimitar build, I wanted him to be as strong as possible until he gets the extra attack at level 6; thus his stats are 13, 12, 15+1, 8, 8 and 15+2 so he can also wield a greatsword as a pact weapon at levels 2-6.
(Does this make sense? Should I go for a more dexterity-oriented build of 8, 14, 15+1, 8, 10, and 15+2, or should I go ahead and pump more into strength to unlock everything possible with 15, 8, 15+1, 8, 8, 15+2?)
Because of this spread, I am actually strong enough not only to use heavy weapons, but also to use certain heavy armors without hindering my movement speed. That leaves me with two armor choices: Chain mail and splint.
Chain mail is 16 armor and costs 75 gold, leaving room for plenty of other things to buy if taking the gold. If possible, I would buy the scimitar as my starting weapon so I can make my pact weapon a rapier later for more +5’s.
Splint is 17 armor and costs 200 gold. While this seems as out of reach as most of the other advanced default armor, it is not only the most affordable of them, but as a fighter charlatan you can start with more than enough gold to buy it! However, that leaves you with only 5 gold.
My current blueprint for my level 1 fighter splint build is to buy it, a quarterstaff, 3 rations, a waterskin, a bedroll and a backpack, leaving me with a grand total of one silver. I will still eventually want the scimitar, but will have access to the greatsword pact weapon between levels 2 and 6 anyway. While I hate wasting money on a weapon I will only use at level 1, it’s only .2 gold and still does decent damage. I do realize my campaign may not start at level 1, but I would rather be prepared. If it starts at level 2 or later, I’ll just skip the quarterstaff and have 3 silver to my name.
So I guess my question is whether or not the extra +1 from splint is worth the extra 125 gold I might need for rations as well as the charlatan skills I picked up (disguise kit, navigator’s kit, and thieves tools as well as the default forgery kit). If not, is it even worth having 13 strength when I can get that much with medium armor on a dexterity build?
I gain three weapon masteries for being a level 1 fighter. The plan is to eventually dual wield with a nick and vex weapon to gain an “extra attack” roll that benefits from hex. The best vex and nick weapons I know of are the rapier and scimitar respectfully.
The only problem with this strategy is it doesn’t function until level 6 when i unlock the extra attack via thirsting blade required to use the nick property (correct?) Therefore i need to utilize one more weapon mastery. The strongest weapons are d12’s (right?), but need a strength score of 13 to wield. Therefore my third weapon would be a greatsword and my stat spread to best accommodate would be 13, 12, 15+1, 8, 8, and 15+2. Does that make sense, or is changing my stats for the whole game based on the first few levels a bad idea?
I gain three weapon masteries for being a level 1 fighter. The plan is to eventually dual wield with a nick and vex weapon to gain an “extra attack” roll that benefits from hex. The best vex and nick weapons I know of are the rapier and scimitar respectfully.
The only problem with this strategy is it doesn’t function until level 6 when i unlock the extra attack via thirsting blade required to use the nick property (correct?)
Not correct. You don't need extra attack to use nick. What you need is two different light weapons.
You attack with one, which gives you the Light property bonus attack with a different light weapon. Nick lets you use that as part of your attack action instead.*
For your purposes, rapier is not the best vex weapon, because it is not light. You won't be able to use nick dual-wielding rapier and scimitar. You won't be able to make the Light bonus action attack at all.**
* Ask your DM which attack needs to be with the Nick weapon, as they managed to leave it undefined in the rulebook. (Ignore anyone who says it must be one way or the other.)
** Yes, there are shenanigans with the weapon interaction rules that let you pull it off.
Edit: also, optimizing your initial loadout for a setup you don't expect to be able to use for another five levels is counterproductive. Play the level you're playing now.
Level 1-2 is primarily determined by the luck of the dice, your best option is to reduce that luck-component as much as possible by getting yourself a second attack with your bonus action (usually by using two-weapon fighting). Because when your enemies have 10 hit points, consistently dealing 5 damage per turn is better than half the time dealing 15 damage or otherwise dealing 0 damage.
In 2024 rules, you can use a Graze weapon in place of two-weapon fighting for some nice reliable damage.
If you are planning to main Warlock something you need to keep in mind is that you can only have one weapon as your Pact weapon under 2024 rules. Which means if you plan to do Nick+Vex one of those two weapons must be based on your STR/DEX. So your first plan of 13/12 for your STR/DEX is a poor option for two-weapon fighting with a Warlock, you'd be better off sticking with a heavy weapon with those stats.
The other thing to consider is the ASIs associated with the feats you intend to take for your build. Most weapon feats only give boosts to your STR/DEX which means your CHA will lag behind the rest of your party. similar to the point above dealing an extra 3.5 damage on a hit doesn't mean anything if you are 10% less likely to hit.
Wow. Ok, so I guess I don’t need the ability to use heavy weapons since I can use nick as soon as I have two weapons.
If I can’t use the rapier, I guess I should go with the shortsword? I would still start off with the scimitar at level 1 since I will be doing more hits with the shortsword and thus it should be my pact weapon (right?)
As far as my weapon masteries, I guess the main two would be scimitar and shortsword. What would you all recommend for the third? I was thinking shortbow on the off-chance I run i to anti-magic fields or something.
If I can use two weapon fighting as soon as level 2, I no longer need to worry about using a greatsword, so I can dump my strength. Thus, I guess I will be going with medium armor.
As far as asi/feats are concerned I was focusing on charisma and constitution. Celestial Warlocks have the ability to come back to life essentially with half their hit points, so I’m utilizing a high constitution with Lessons of the Fist Ones: Tough and Boon of Fortitude. Before that I’m using Warcaster for spells while dual wielding and then boosting my charisma. Is that the wrong strategy for this build?
As far as being less likely to hit, my idea was to pick up Pact of the Chain for a familiar to gain advantage on the first attack. Since I would be attacking with a vex weapon first, as long as it hits I have advantage on the next attack with nick. …right?
Thanks for bearing with me. This gets pretty confusing, but I know it’s better to multi class with the warlock by starting as a fighter and I want to make the most of it with the right masteries.
Shortsword is a way you can go that makes a lot of sense. Something that may be worth considering is going tome pact and picking up shillelagh and rolling with a club. You cast shillelagh on the club to turn it into a d8 weapon that works with your scimitar. You'd be giving up your advantage shenanigans though.
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Interesting! I’m thinking Guidance, Shillelagh and Shape Water. I’m wanting to use a familiar anyway for advantage on the first hit. While I do loose advantage on the other attacks, but I get the push feature from the club!
Also, I REALLY appreciate you doing the math out for me. I have tried with no success. I don’t really understand the need or appeal though of those feats. I’ll look into them, but I’m already crammed for room.
I hate to say it, but the two equation results work out to the same average of damage. Maybe if I’m not doing it right anyway perhaps I should just go with the greatsword. If I do, I think I’ll get rid of War Caster since i can cast spells and hold the greatsword.and go back to fey touch so i don’t need to learn hex and learn charm person, plus misty step. What do you all think?
Based on the equations, is it worth even using two weapons? Or is there something else that I’m missing. Is it the feats? Where should I even out them?
Based on the equations, is it worth even using two weapons?
One of the things they seem to have managed in this revision is to keep the weapon styles roughly even with each other in terms of the damage. So one way usually doesn’t completely outclass another. It’s kind of liberating as it makes everything viable.
The answer I’m about to give may be unsatisfying, but you should use whichever one you think will be more fun. Yes, there’s a point where D&D is basically: Probability, The Game. But we don’t play because math simulation is fun. We play because pretending to be a badass swordsman facing danger is fun. So, when you picture this character, do you see them slugging it out, swinging a greatsword and mowing through their enemies, or do you see them darting in an out quickly poking lots of little holes in the bad guys? Pick which one is going to be fun for you to play, and do that (then make choices that help you be good at that version). Don’t worry about what the math tells you to do.
Yeah, I’ve seen this one. I actually have a build saved centered around it! However, it’s not really the same thing as what I’m going for. Apples and Oranges if you will.
For starters, it doesn’t start fighter, which is a huge boost. Even Colby himself admits it. Without that, the video doesn’t get into weapon masteries, which are huge for determining my style of fighting. Also, I’m using a 2014 race and background in Verdan and Celebrity Adventurer’s Scion simply because I identify with them. In addition, he goes with a GOOlock whereas I really want to go with Celestial due to taste and abilities that contribute to my max hp style build, setting my asi/feats pretty much in stone. Maybe it’s not ideal, but it’s ranked about the same as the other warlock pacts (except archfey surprisingly), and again I identify with it more. Not that you have to especially if you are going for the most powerful build, but I just find it easier to act more like myself.
So, yeah… I still question whether or not to go with two-handed or two weapon, which will determine my strength and thus my armor. The math seems to show the average as about the same, but two-handed at this point seems much simpler.
Based on the equations, is it worth even using two weapons?
One of the things they seem to have managed in this revision is to keep the weapon styles roughly even with each other in terms of the damage. So one way usually doesn’t completely outclass another. It’s kind of liberating as it makes everything viable.
The answer I’m about to give may be unsatisfying, but you should use whichever one you think will be more fun. Yes, there’s a point where D&D is basically: Probability, The Game. But we don’t play because math simulation is fun. We play because pretending to be a badass swordsman facing danger is fun. So, when you picture this character, do you see them slugging it out, swinging a greatsword and mowing through their enemies, or do you see them darting in an out quickly poking lots of little holes in the bad guys? Pick which one is going to be fun for you to play, and do that (then make choices that help you be good at that version). Don’t worry about what the math tells you to do.
I understand, and I appreciate your feedback (as well as everyone else’s). Part of why I’m really trying hard to decide on this is I’m hoping to order another heroforge figure. I have to redo my dual wield design since it has a rapier and that’s not dual wieldable, but also i really liked the idea of flames around them.
From a gameplay standpoint, if I start at level 2 or later it really doesn’t matter since i can summon a weapon. If at level one though, I either need to start with one of my dual weird weapons or a quarterstaff since it’s the cheapest.
i’m open to anymore thoughts on this logic, but… well…
I have a two-handed build I am happy with. What I don’t have to compare it to is a proper two weapon one. So I guess moving forward I want to focus on experimenting with that. It sounds like several feats and maybe a certain fighting style might be necessary. If so, I’m not sure I’m interested, but it would just he nice to know for sure the most optimal way to play a two weapon fighter/warlock, so any advice would be welcome!
For two-weapon fighting you really benefit from both the Two-Weapon Fighting Fighting Style and the Dual Wielder feat. IMO Heavy weapons are more flexible because they are less reliant on a fighting style, they still get a huge benefit from GWM but that's really all you need.
The only thing with the two weapon fighting style is that it focuses on using your strength or dexterity bonus rather than your charisma. At 14 my dexterity is only a +2. I guess i could switch my dexterity and constitution to max it out to 20 along with war caster and +2 charisms, but then i won’t have room for Dual Wielder and Defensive Duelist. All that for five extra damage?
If i do use two weapons as a Fighter/Warlock in might just be without the bells and whistles. If I was building a straight fighter perhaps i could make a dexterity battlemaster with those feats, a dex feat and +2 dex, but i don’t think i have room in my fighter/warlock to do that and max out my charisma like i need to.
Shortsword is a way you can go that makes a lot of sense. Something that may be worth considering is going tome pact and picking up shillelagh and rolling with a club. You cast shillelagh on the club to turn it into a d8 weapon that works with your scimitar. You'd be giving up your advantage shenanigans though.
Shillelagh doesn't do much over Pact of the Blade. You are restricted to clubs and quarterstaves. It does potentially increase the damage to d8 or higher at higher levels and can change the weapon damage to force. Pact of the Blade can change it to Necrotic, Radiant, or Psychic.
Both will let you use your Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls, letting you ignore the need for Finesse weapons.
Pact of the Blade has the added flexibility of being able to summon any weapon (really nice at first level when you can't afford expensive weapons). Giving the user proficiency in the weapon is cool, but generally not needed with Fighter levels. I doubt it's intentional, but I think technically, it allows you to bond with magical ranged weapons even though you can only summon melee weapons. Talk to your GM before trying magic ranged weapon shenanigans.
Over a light weapon, you are probably looking at +1 damage from Shillelagh at first level up to +3.5 damage as a level 17 Warlock.
The only thing with the two weapon fighting style is that it focuses on using your strength or dexterity bonus rather than your charisma. At 14 my dexterity is only a +2. I guess i could switch my dexterity and constitution to max it out to 20 along with war caster and +2 charisms, but then i won’t have room for Dual Wielder and Defensive Duelist. All that for five extra damage?
If i do use two weapons as a Fighter/Warlock in might just be without the bells and whistles. If I was building a straight fighter perhaps i could make a dexterity battlemaster with those feats, a dex feat and +2 dex, but i don’t think i have room in my fighter/warlock to do that and max out my charisma like i need to.
I think I am missing why strength or dexterity is greatly important. Yes, you will be using strength or dexterity to attack, but not to damage. Your Pact Weapon will be using Charisma for both attack and damage and this will also be what you use for your spells. My recommendation is focus on Charisma, make as many attacks as possible with your Pact Weapon, realize that your secondary attacks will suffer from a lower bonus.
Also not that you don't have to use your bonus action for attacks. If you are using a Nick weapon, for example, you could make an attack with two different Light weapons, one being your Pact Weapon. Before or after your attack you could cast a Bonus Action spell. Hex is a staple bonus action Warlock spell and, if cast before your attack action, would mean each hit deals an extra 1d6 Necrotic Damage (+3.5 damage). It's a level 1 spell, but as long as you don't lose concentration, it lasts for an hour. By the time you are a level 9 Warlock, it lasts all day.
In fact, Hex is the equivalent of every hit causing an automatic short sword bonus hit (minus the weapon mastery properties).
Dual wielding is cool and can add up to a lot of damage, but
don't neglect your Warlock abilities
remember that you can change your masteries with a long rest
remember you can summon any simple or martial melee weapon as your Pact Weapon or bond with any magic weapon; you can use Vex and Nick as your staples and switch it up to Sap, Push, or Slow depending on your need.
Very well. I’ll make a note of it for if I want to try something different, but for now I won’t go Pact of the Tome. I honestly prefer pact of the chain anyway, especially since I have an imp miniature. It seems useful than visions over distant realms since the imp is an invisible scout just like you get with that eldritch invocation.
As far everything else goes, I’m excited in a way. What you said goes exactly with the feat/asi build I am hoping for! If anything, I am a little cautious that I am still missing something.
If so, feel free to comment, but for now I’ll just focus in making it my current build!
…there is one thing I still do not understand though: what’s the point of the two weapon fighting style if it’s only going to add my low strength or dexterity modifier to my nick weapon attack? Would I not be better off choosing something like defense?
Very well. I’ll make a note of it for if I want to try something different, but for now I won’t go Pact of the Tome. I honestly prefer pact of the chain anyway, especially since I have an imp miniature.
I'm confused. I thought you were wanting to go Pact of the Blade? If you don't, you will need to rely on your Strength and Dexterity for weapon attacks unless you use Shillelagh or True Strike. In addition, you won't get extra attacks unless you level up in Fighter enough (level 5?).
You can have multiple pacts if you have multiple invocations.
Ah right I forgot you want to max out your CON for this build, which is not optimal but whatever. Two-weapon Fighting more or less doubles the damage you deal with Nick and BA (from Dual Wielder) attacks, which is very good, by comparison Great Weapon Fighting does almost nothing anymore. Defence Fighting Style is extremely meh especially compared to Defensive Dualist which basically gives you unlimited Shield as a martial now, it's what you take if you don't have anything better to do. Dueling is good, Two-Weapon Fighting is good, Blind Fighting can also be good if you want to do the Darkness+Devil's Sight combo without having to spend and invocation on Devil's Sight (you could instead spend it on Lesson's of the First Ones to pick up Tough, Alert, or Musician).
My first Eldritch Invocation is Pact of the Blade. At level 2 of warlock I can get pact of the chain also.
I’m willing to skip on constitution for the sake of trying something new, especially if it is more optimal. Perhaps it’s an excuse to try something new subclass wise.
Anyway, I guess I can go back to the two weapon fighting style for this special build. Now I’m kind of curious which fighting style you would recommend for the two handed greatsword.
Regardless, what asi/feats would you recommend for two weapon fighting (and when)? Dual Wielder and Defensive Duelist? It doesn’t take priority over maxing my Charisma, right? So far I have War Caster at level 4 to cast spells while dual wielding and +2 Charisma at level 8.
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The current build I am working on is a fighter/warlock. . While I plan to run a rapier/scimitar build, I wanted him to be as strong as possible until he gets the extra attack at level 6; thus his stats are 13, 12, 15+1, 8, 8 and 15+2 so he can also wield a greatsword as a pact weapon at levels 2-6.
(Does this make sense? Should I go for a more dexterity-oriented build of 8, 14, 15+1, 8, 10, and 15+2, or should I go ahead and pump more into strength to unlock everything possible with 15, 8, 15+1, 8, 8, 15+2?)
Because of this spread, I am actually strong enough not only to use heavy weapons, but also to use certain heavy armors without hindering my movement speed. That leaves me with two armor choices: Chain mail and splint.
Chain mail is 16 armor and costs 75 gold, leaving room for plenty of other things to buy if taking the gold. If possible, I would buy the scimitar as my starting weapon so I can make my pact weapon a rapier later for more +5’s.
Splint is 17 armor and costs 200 gold. While this seems as out of reach as most of the other advanced default armor, it is not only the most affordable of them, but as a fighter charlatan you can start with more than enough gold to buy it! However, that leaves you with only 5 gold.
My current blueprint for my level 1 fighter splint build is to buy it, a quarterstaff, 3 rations, a waterskin, a bedroll and a backpack, leaving me with a grand total of one silver. I will still eventually want the scimitar, but will have access to the greatsword pact weapon between levels 2 and 6 anyway. While I hate wasting money on a weapon I will only use at level 1, it’s only .2 gold and still does decent damage. I do realize my campaign may not start at level 1, but I would rather be prepared. If it starts at level 2 or later, I’ll just skip the quarterstaff and have 3 silver to my name.
So I guess my question is whether or not the extra +1 from splint is worth the extra 125 gold I might need for rations as well as the charlatan skills I picked up (disguise kit, navigator’s kit, and thieves tools as well as the default forgery kit). If not, is it even worth having 13 strength when I can get that much with medium armor on a dexterity build?
First planning which weapon and mastery property you want to use should help decide ability score and armor selection.
I gain three weapon masteries for being a level 1 fighter. The plan is to eventually dual wield with a nick and vex weapon to gain an “extra attack” roll that benefits from hex. The best vex and nick weapons I know of are the rapier and scimitar respectfully.
The only problem with this strategy is it doesn’t function until level 6 when i unlock the extra attack via thirsting blade required to use the nick property (correct?) Therefore i need to utilize one more weapon mastery. The strongest weapons are d12’s (right?), but need a strength score of 13 to wield. Therefore my third weapon would be a greatsword and my stat spread to best accommodate would be 13, 12, 15+1, 8, 8, and 15+2. Does that make sense, or is changing my stats for the whole game based on the first few levels a bad idea?
Not correct. You don't need extra attack to use nick. What you need is two different light weapons.
You attack with one, which gives you the Light property bonus attack with a different light weapon. Nick lets you use that as part of your attack action instead.*
For your purposes, rapier is not the best vex weapon, because it is not light. You won't be able to use nick dual-wielding rapier and scimitar. You won't be able to make the Light bonus action attack at all.**
* Ask your DM which attack needs to be with the Nick weapon, as they managed to leave it undefined in the rulebook. (Ignore anyone who says it must be one way or the other.)
** Yes, there are shenanigans with the weapon interaction rules that let you pull it off.
Edit: also, optimizing your initial loadout for a setup you don't expect to be able to use for another five levels is counterproductive. Play the level you're playing now.
Level 1-2 is primarily determined by the luck of the dice, your best option is to reduce that luck-component as much as possible by getting yourself a second attack with your bonus action (usually by using two-weapon fighting). Because when your enemies have 10 hit points, consistently dealing 5 damage per turn is better than half the time dealing 15 damage or otherwise dealing 0 damage.
In 2024 rules, you can use a Graze weapon in place of two-weapon fighting for some nice reliable damage.
If you are planning to main Warlock something you need to keep in mind is that you can only have one weapon as your Pact weapon under 2024 rules. Which means if you plan to do Nick+Vex one of those two weapons must be based on your STR/DEX. So your first plan of 13/12 for your STR/DEX is a poor option for two-weapon fighting with a Warlock, you'd be better off sticking with a heavy weapon with those stats.
The other thing to consider is the ASIs associated with the feats you intend to take for your build. Most weapon feats only give boosts to your STR/DEX which means your CHA will lag behind the rest of your party. similar to the point above dealing an extra 3.5 damage on a hit doesn't mean anything if you are 10% less likely to hit.
Wow. Ok, so I guess I don’t need the ability to use heavy weapons since I can use nick as soon as I have two weapons.
If I can’t use the rapier, I guess I should go with the shortsword? I would still start off with the scimitar at level 1 since I will be doing more hits with the shortsword and thus it should be my pact weapon (right?)
As far as my weapon masteries, I guess the main two would be scimitar and shortsword. What would you all recommend for the third? I was thinking shortbow on the off-chance I run i to anti-magic fields or something.
If I can use two weapon fighting as soon as level 2, I no longer need to worry about using a greatsword, so I can dump my strength. Thus, I guess I will be going with medium armor.
As far as asi/feats are concerned I was focusing on charisma and constitution. Celestial Warlocks have the ability to come back to life essentially with half their hit points, so I’m utilizing a high constitution with Lessons of the Fist Ones: Tough and Boon of Fortitude. Before that I’m using Warcaster for spells while dual wielding and then boosting my charisma. Is that the wrong strategy for this build?
As far as being less likely to hit, my idea was to pick up Pact of the Chain for a familiar to gain advantage on the first attack. Since I would be attacking with a vex weapon first, as long as it hits I have advantage on the next attack with nick. …right?
Thanks for bearing with me. This gets pretty confusing, but I know it’s better to multi class with the warlock by starting as a fighter and I want to make the most of it with the right masteries.
Shortsword is a way you can go that makes a lot of sense. Something that may be worth considering is going tome pact and picking up shillelagh and rolling with a club. You cast shillelagh on the club to turn it into a d8 weapon that works with your scimitar. You'd be giving up your advantage shenanigans though.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
You're not taking Dual Wielder or Defensive Duelist?
Consider the following:
At Level 8
Attack 1: Shortsword (Vex) - Pact Weapon = +8th 1d6+5+1d6(Hex) = 7.8 / 10.4 with Adv
Attack 2: Shortsword (Vex) - Pact Weapon = +8th 1d6+5+1d6(Hex) = 7.8 / 10.4 with Adv
Attack Nick: Scimitar (Nick) = +6th 1d6+3+1d6(Hex) = 5.5 / 8 with Adv
Total = 21 / 29
vs: Greatsword
Attack 1: +8th 2d6+5+1d6 (Hex) = 11.8 / 14.1 with Adv
Attack 2: +8th 2d6+5+1d6 (Hex) = 11.8
Total = 24 / 26
Interesting! I’m thinking Guidance, Shillelagh and Shape Water. I’m wanting to use a familiar anyway for advantage on the first hit. While I do loose advantage on the other attacks, but I get the push feature from the club!
Also, I REALLY appreciate you doing the math out for me. I have tried with no success. I don’t really understand the need or appeal though of those feats. I’ll look into them, but I’m already crammed for room.
I hate to say it, but the two equation results work out to the same average of damage. Maybe if I’m not doing it right anyway perhaps I should just go with the greatsword. If I do, I think I’ll get rid of War Caster since i can cast spells and hold the greatsword.and go back to fey touch so i don’t need to learn hex and learn charm person, plus misty step. What do you all think?
Based on the equations, is it worth even using two weapons? Or is there something else that I’m missing. Is it the feats? Where should I even out them?
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One of the things they seem to have managed in this revision is to keep the weapon styles roughly even with each other in terms of the damage. So one way usually doesn’t completely outclass another. It’s kind of liberating as it makes everything viable.
The answer I’m about to give may be unsatisfying, but you should use whichever one you think will be more fun. Yes, there’s a point where D&D is basically: Probability, The Game. But we don’t play because math simulation is fun. We play because pretending to be a badass swordsman facing danger is fun. So, when you picture this character, do you see them slugging it out, swinging a greatsword and mowing through their enemies, or do you see them darting in an out quickly poking lots of little holes in the bad guys? Pick which one is going to be fun for you to play, and do that (then make choices that help you be good at that version). Don’t worry about what the math tells you to do.
Yeah, I’ve seen this one. I actually have a build saved centered around it! However, it’s not really the same thing as what I’m going for. Apples and Oranges if you will.
For starters, it doesn’t start fighter, which is a huge boost. Even Colby himself admits it. Without that, the video doesn’t get into weapon masteries, which are huge for determining my style of fighting. Also, I’m using a 2014 race and background in Verdan and Celebrity Adventurer’s Scion simply because I identify with them.
In addition, he goes with a GOOlock whereas I really want to go with Celestial due to taste and abilities that contribute to my max hp style build, setting my asi/feats pretty much in stone. Maybe it’s not ideal, but it’s ranked about the same as the other warlock pacts (except archfey surprisingly), and again I identify with it more. Not that you have to especially if you are going for the most powerful build, but I just find it easier to act more like myself.
So, yeah… I still question whether or not to go with two-handed or two weapon, which will determine my strength and thus my armor. The math seems to show the average as about the same, but two-handed at this point seems much simpler.
I understand, and I appreciate your feedback (as well as everyone else’s). Part of why I’m really trying hard to decide on this is I’m hoping to order another heroforge figure. I have to redo my dual wield design since it has a rapier and that’s not dual wieldable, but also i really liked the idea of flames around them.
From a gameplay standpoint, if I start at level 2 or later it really doesn’t matter since i can summon a weapon. If at level one though, I either need to start with one of my dual weird weapons or a quarterstaff since it’s the cheapest.
i’m open to anymore thoughts on this logic, but… well…
I have a two-handed build I am happy with. What I don’t have to compare it to is a proper two weapon one. So I guess moving forward I want to focus on experimenting with that. It sounds like several feats and maybe a certain fighting style might be necessary. If so, I’m not sure I’m interested, but it would just he nice to know for sure the most optimal way to play a two weapon fighter/warlock, so any advice would be welcome!
For two-weapon fighting you really benefit from both the Two-Weapon Fighting Fighting Style and the Dual Wielder feat. IMO Heavy weapons are more flexible because they are less reliant on a fighting style, they still get a huge benefit from GWM but that's really all you need.
The only thing with the two weapon fighting style is that it focuses on using your strength or dexterity bonus rather than your charisma. At 14 my dexterity is only a +2. I guess i could switch my dexterity and constitution to max it out to 20 along with war caster and +2 charisms, but then i won’t have room for Dual Wielder and Defensive Duelist. All that for five extra damage?
If i do use two weapons as a Fighter/Warlock in might just be without the bells and whistles. If I was building a straight fighter perhaps i could make a dexterity battlemaster with those feats, a dex feat and +2 dex, but i don’t think i have room in my fighter/warlock to do that and max out my charisma like i need to.
Shillelagh doesn't do much over Pact of the Blade. You are restricted to clubs and quarterstaves. It does potentially increase the damage to d8 or higher at higher levels and can change the weapon damage to force. Pact of the Blade can change it to Necrotic, Radiant, or Psychic.
Both will let you use your Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls, letting you ignore the need for Finesse weapons.
Pact of the Blade has the added flexibility of being able to summon any weapon (really nice at first level when you can't afford expensive weapons). Giving the user proficiency in the weapon is cool, but generally not needed with Fighter levels. I doubt it's intentional, but I think technically, it allows you to bond with magical ranged weapons even though you can only summon melee weapons. Talk to your GM before trying magic ranged weapon shenanigans.
Over a light weapon, you are probably looking at +1 damage from Shillelagh at first level up to +3.5 damage as a level 17 Warlock.
I don't think it's worth it.
I think I am missing why strength or dexterity is greatly important. Yes, you will be using strength or dexterity to attack, but not to damage. Your Pact Weapon will be using Charisma for both attack and damage and this will also be what you use for your spells. My recommendation is focus on Charisma, make as many attacks as possible with your Pact Weapon, realize that your secondary attacks will suffer from a lower bonus.
Also not that you don't have to use your bonus action for attacks. If you are using a Nick weapon, for example, you could make an attack with two different Light weapons, one being your Pact Weapon. Before or after your attack you could cast a Bonus Action spell. Hex is a staple bonus action Warlock spell and, if cast before your attack action, would mean each hit deals an extra 1d6 Necrotic Damage (+3.5 damage). It's a level 1 spell, but as long as you don't lose concentration, it lasts for an hour. By the time you are a level 9 Warlock, it lasts all day.
In fact, Hex is the equivalent of every hit causing an automatic short sword bonus hit (minus the weapon mastery properties).
Dual wielding is cool and can add up to a lot of damage, but
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Very well. I’ll make a note of it for if I want to try something different, but for now I won’t go Pact of the Tome. I honestly prefer pact of the chain anyway, especially since I have an imp miniature. It seems useful than visions over distant realms since the imp is an invisible scout just like you get with that eldritch invocation.
As far everything else goes, I’m excited in a way. What you said goes exactly with the feat/asi build I am hoping for! If anything, I am a little cautious that I am still missing something.
If so, feel free to comment, but for now I’ll just focus in making it my current build!
…there is one thing I still do not understand though: what’s the point of the two weapon fighting style if it’s only going to add my low strength or dexterity modifier to my nick weapon attack? Would I not be better off choosing something like defense?
I'm confused. I thought you were wanting to go Pact of the Blade? If you don't, you will need to rely on your Strength and Dexterity for weapon attacks unless you use Shillelagh or True Strike. In addition, you won't get extra attacks unless you level up in Fighter enough (level 5?).
You can have multiple pacts if you have multiple invocations.
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Ah right I forgot you want to max out your CON for this build, which is not optimal but whatever. Two-weapon Fighting more or less doubles the damage you deal with Nick and BA (from Dual Wielder) attacks, which is very good, by comparison Great Weapon Fighting does almost nothing anymore. Defence Fighting Style is extremely meh especially compared to Defensive Dualist which basically gives you unlimited Shield as a martial now, it's what you take if you don't have anything better to do. Dueling is good, Two-Weapon Fighting is good, Blind Fighting can also be good if you want to do the Darkness+Devil's Sight combo without having to spend and invocation on Devil's Sight (you could instead spend it on Lesson's of the First Ones to pick up Tough, Alert, or Musician).
My first Eldritch Invocation is Pact of the Blade. At level 2 of warlock I can get pact of the chain also.
I’m willing to skip on constitution for the sake of trying something new, especially if it is more optimal. Perhaps it’s an excuse to try something new subclass wise.
Anyway, I guess I can go back to the two weapon fighting style for this special build. Now I’m kind of curious which fighting style you would recommend for the two handed greatsword.
Regardless, what asi/feats would you recommend for two weapon fighting (and when)? Dual Wielder and Defensive Duelist? It doesn’t take priority over maxing my Charisma, right? So far I have War Caster at level 4 to cast spells while dual wielding and +2 Charisma at level 8.