All around say, that transmutation wizard is weak, because developers put so much limitations in his abilities.
Here is one thing they missed (or left there for reason) to bypass value limitation of major transformation option in Master Transmuter:
With minor alchemy You can transmute 5 cubic feets of wood or stone into silver. Price for this rock will be
655 lb/ft3 * 5 ft3 * 5 gp = 16375 gp.
After that you have exactly 10 minutes for major transformation (for witch you don't need concentrate by RAW) to transmute this rock into something you want, easily bypassing value criteria for major transformation
Or, if someone think that for minor alchemy concentration starts after you fully transmute something, you can transmute
655 lb/ft3* 125 ft3 * 5 gp = 409375 gp.
If someone say, that this object is turned into wood/stone after 1 hour, you still can transmute 4 cubic feets and have 10 minutes for things you want.
So the question becomes "is 5-125 square feet of wood or stone that has been turned into silver worth as much as 5-125 square feet of silver?" The devs have answered "no" on a very similar question. Spells and features (especially temporary ones) don't create value as far as the rules are concerned. But of course those same devs could not be bothered to put something so important in the actual rules.
In the end, the only person you have to convince is your DM. Good luck.
So the question becomes "is 5-125 square feet of wood or stone that has been turned into silver worth as much as 5-125 square feet of silver?" The devs have answered "no" on a very similar question. Spells and features (especially temporary ones) don't create value as far as the rules are concerned. But of course those same devs could not be bothered to put something so important in the actual rules.
In the end, the only person you have to convince is your DM. Good luck.
So the question becomes "is 5-125 square feet of wood or stone that has been turned into silver worth as much as 5-125 square feet of silver?" The devs have answered "no" on a very similar question. Spells and features (especially temporary ones) don't create value as far as the rules are concerned. But of course those same devs could not be bothered to put something so important in the actual rules.
In the end, the only person you have to convince is your DM. Good luck.
So the question becomes "is 5-125 square feet of wood or stone that has been turned into silver worth as much as 5-125 square feet of silver?" The devs have answered "no" on a very similar question. Spells and features (especially temporary ones) don't create value as far as the rules are concerned. But of course those same devs could not be bothered to put something so important in the actual rules.
In the end, the only person you have to convince is your DM. Good luck.
If a magical copy of an object has 0 value, a magically transformed object should not gain value.
Well, i can see your point. But what about fabricate transmutation spell? Definitely, you can create plate (if you have Smith tools proficiency ofc) from 65 lb of iron, raw materials will cost you 7 gp, when plate complect 1500 gp
So in this case magically transformed object gaining a value. Why this will not work on transmuted rock of silver?
So the question becomes "is 5-125 square feet of wood or stone that has been turned into silver worth as much as 5-125 square feet of silver?" The devs have answered "no" on a very similar question. Spells and features (especially temporary ones) don't create value as far as the rules are concerned. But of course those same devs could not be bothered to put something so important in the actual rules.
In the end, the only person you have to convince is your DM. Good luck.
If a magical copy of an object has 0 value, a magically transformed object should not gain value.
Well, i can see your point. But what about fabricate transmutation spell? Definitely, you can create plate (if you have Smith tools proficiency ofc) from 65 lb of iron, raw materials will cost you 7 gp, when plate complect 1500 gp
So in this case magically transformed object gaining a value. Why this will not work on transmuted rock of silver?
Well fabricate is not temporary, is not free (costs a slot), is not low level (level 7), and requires tools. Also the material didn't gain value, its shape did, which can happen without magic. Other than that, I don't know, I don't make the rules, I just relay them.
Like I first said, the only person you have to convince in your DM. But creating value from thin air is something you shouldn't expect to get away with.
So the question becomes "is 5-125 square feet of wood or stone that has been turned into silver worth as much as 5-125 square feet of silver?" The devs have answered "no" on a very similar question. Spells and features (especially temporary ones) don't create value as far as the rules are concerned. But of course those same devs could not be bothered to put something so important in the actual rules.
In the end, the only person you have to convince is your DM. Good luck.
If a magical copy of an object has 0 value, a magically transformed object should not gain value.
Well, i can see your point. But what about fabricate transmutation spell? Definitely, you can create plate (if you have Smith tools proficiency ofc) from 65 lb of iron, raw materials will cost you 7 gp, when plate complect 1500 gp
So in this case magically transformed object gaining a value. Why this will not work on transmuted rock of silver?
Well fabricate is not temporary, is not free (costs a slot), is not low level (level 7), and requires tools. Also the material didn't gain value, its shape did, which can happen without magic. Other than that, I don't know, I don't make the rules, I just relay them.
Like I first said, the only person you have to convince in your DM. But creating value from thin air is something you shouldn't expect to get away with.
I could start a discussion here, what a "value" is, or where are these rules you just relay, but i don't want to. At the end, the DM is the last person that i need to convince, huh?
Also "Major transformation" is not temporary or free, too, and requires even higher level. For the 14 lvl ability, that already have so much built-in restrictions, such as mass, size, value, bypass one of this limits isn't a big deal
Also "Major transformation" is not temporary or free, too, and requires even higher level. For the 14 lvl ability, that already have so much built-in restrictions, such as mass, size, value, bypass one of this limits isn't a big deal
Major transformation's ability to turn 125 sqft of wood or stone into something of the same size and value is not the point of contention.
And major transformation is perfectly balanced as is. Being able to turn a decently sized boulder into a pure silver statue worth almost half a million gold once per day starting level 14, just breaks the game completely. You could buy a large city or small kingdom in a few weeks to a month (12000000gp), so it is absolutely a big deal.
Also "Major transformation" is not temporary or free, too, and requires even higher level. For the 14 lvl ability, that already have so much built-in restrictions, such as mass, size, value, bypass one of this limits isn't a big deal
Major transformation's ability to turn 125 sqft of wood or stone into something of the same size and value is not the point of contention.
And major transformation is perfectly balanced as is. Being able to turn a decently sized boulder into a pure silver statue worth almost half a million gold once per day starting level 14, just breaks the game completely. You could buy a large city or small kingdom in a few weeks to a month (12000000gp), so it is absolutely a big deal.
DND is not an economical simulator. You can use this fabricate trick 7 levels earlier, making 1493 gp per day. On 14 lvl you can do this 7 times, effectively making 10451 gp per day. Or, if you will make simulacrum of yourself every day, 17909 gp.
You can't use "minor alchemy" to transform 125 sqft, unless you suppose that concentration on this effect starts after full transformation. And this is even more strong, letting you transmute full citywall into wood, or stone castle into wood or copper one. So i reread "minor alchemy" ability, and suppose, that this is incorrect, because there is this "after 1 hour" criteria, indicating that countdown starts immediately after beginning of the procedure. But others may think differently, so i left this sentence for them.
And i still can't find these rules you are talking about. Only the Crawford's answer about other ability, and Your claimings, that this is the same.
And i still can't find these rules you are talking about. Only the Crawford's answer about other ability, and Your claimings, that this is the same.
They are not in the rules. I also mentioned that in my first comment that the devs didn't bother to print any very important rule about what value is or whether you can create tens of thousands of gold per day of downtime.
Having a lot of money by level 14 isn't game breaking.
By level 14 my group had 2.4 million gold and a floating castle.
We're still player, level 18, and loving it. Sure we like the gold rewards, still, and finding magic items, but we play on because we enjoy playing the game, not just because we get loot.
So using the trick the OP mentioned isn't game-breaking.
And yes, Fabricate alone is useful in creating ****tons of money. My wizard had smithing proficiency and during war just kept using Fabricate multiple times a day to generate several thousand gold per day in the comfort of his home. It's great for downtime gold generation.
Don't forget this trick creates one object, and selling a high value single object isn't always easy, since not many common merchants can afford it. It could take weeks to months to find a buyer. So, technically you'd probably be more successful creating lower value items and selling those - since their lower value makes them easier to sell.
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All around say, that transmutation wizard is weak, because developers put so much limitations in his abilities.
Here is one thing they missed (or left there for reason) to bypass value limitation of major transformation option in Master Transmuter:
With minor alchemy You can transmute 5 cubic feets of wood or stone into silver. Price for this rock will be
655 lb/ft3 * 5 ft3 * 5 gp = 16375 gp.
After that you have exactly 10 minutes for major transformation (for witch you don't need concentrate by RAW) to transmute this rock into something you want, easily bypassing value criteria for major transformation
Or, if someone think that for minor alchemy concentration starts after you fully transmute something, you can transmute
655 lb/ft3* 125 ft3 * 5 gp = 409375 gp.
If someone say, that this object is turned into wood/stone after 1 hour, you still can transmute 4 cubic feets and have 10 minutes for things you want.
655 lb/ft3 * 4 ft3 * 5 gp = 13100 gp.
So the question becomes "is 5-125 square feet of wood or stone that has been turned into silver worth as much as 5-125 square feet of silver?" The devs have answered "no" on a very similar question. Spells and features (especially temporary ones) don't create value as far as the rules are concerned. But of course those same devs could not be bothered to put something so important in the actual rules.
In the end, the only person you have to convince is your DM. Good luck.
Can you please send a link to the Dev's answer?
The DM is always the last judge by default.
It isn't for this feature, but mentions value.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/799395125130498048?s=19
If a magical copy of an object has 0 value, a magically transformed object should not gain value.
Well, i can see your point. But what about fabricate transmutation spell? Definitely, you can create plate (if you have Smith tools proficiency ofc) from 65 lb of iron, raw materials will cost you 7 gp, when plate complect 1500 gp
So in this case magically transformed object gaining a value. Why this will not work on transmuted rock of silver?
Well fabricate is not temporary, is not free (costs a slot), is not low level (level 7), and requires tools. Also the material didn't gain value, its shape did, which can happen without magic. Other than that, I don't know, I don't make the rules, I just relay them.
Like I first said, the only person you have to convince in your DM. But creating value from thin air is something you shouldn't expect to get away with.
I could start a discussion here, what a "value" is, or where are these rules you just relay, but i don't want to. At the end, the DM is the last person that i need to convince, huh?
Also "Major transformation" is not temporary or free, too, and requires even higher level. For the 14 lvl ability, that already have so much built-in restrictions, such as mass, size, value, bypass one of this limits isn't a big deal
Major transformation's ability to turn 125 sqft of wood or stone into something of the same size and value is not the point of contention.
And major transformation is perfectly balanced as is. Being able to turn a decently sized boulder into a pure silver statue worth almost half a million gold once per day starting level 14, just breaks the game completely. You could buy a large city or small kingdom in a few weeks to a month (12000000gp), so it is absolutely a big deal.
DND is not an economical simulator. You can use this fabricate trick 7 levels earlier, making 1493 gp per day. On 14 lvl you can do this 7 times, effectively making 10451 gp per day. Or, if you will make simulacrum of yourself every day, 17909 gp.
You can't use "minor alchemy" to transform 125 sqft, unless you suppose that concentration on this effect starts after full transformation. And this is even more strong, letting you transmute full citywall into wood, or stone castle into wood or copper one. So i reread "minor alchemy" ability, and suppose, that this is incorrect, because there is this "after 1 hour" criteria, indicating that countdown starts immediately after beginning of the procedure. But others may think differently, so i left this sentence for them.
And i still can't find these rules you are talking about. Only the Crawford's answer about other ability, and Your claimings, that this is the same.
They are not in the rules. I also mentioned that in my first comment that the devs didn't bother to print any very important rule about what value is or whether you can create tens of thousands of gold per day of downtime.
Having a lot of money by level 14 isn't game breaking.
By level 14 my group had 2.4 million gold and a floating castle.
We're still player, level 18, and loving it. Sure we like the gold rewards, still, and finding magic items, but we play on because we enjoy playing the game, not just because we get loot.
So using the trick the OP mentioned isn't game-breaking.
And yes, Fabricate alone is useful in creating ****tons of money. My wizard had smithing proficiency and during war just kept using Fabricate multiple times a day to generate several thousand gold per day in the comfort of his home. It's great for downtime gold generation.
Don't forget this trick creates one object, and selling a high value single object isn't always easy, since not many common merchants can afford it. It could take weeks to months to find a buyer. So, technically you'd probably be more successful creating lower value items and selling those - since their lower value makes them easier to sell.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.