fluff wise i found blood hunter amazing for creating amazing backstories fitting in most of the games, but since im more and less noob, i would like, if possible, to guide me.
I will ask specifically for two of the subclasses, lycan and mutant.
Lycan: I really love the idea to play as a hybrid mostly with my fists. In vtm, playing gangrel was my favorite. So how viable is a build that focusing in Predatory Strikes? if im not mistaken you can go in and out in hybrid form as a bonus action now and thats a plus. Should i go full dex with con and Win for the bloodlust ? My idea was 8/15/15/10/8 (no race) getting two weapon fighting and stick as i said to P.S. Is it viable? What changes can i make?
Mutant: As it may stated already i really see mutant as a Witcher subclass. Before the revised all i see about that subclass was really bad reviews. Did something changed that made this subclass good? And how will you build a witcher theme build?
tnx in advance for every small advice that you might give.
EDID: P.S i want to stick clearly to that class without adding sublcasses
If you do a Dex build based on predatory strikes, I would consider using a rapier and pick the dueling fighting style. Then when you use the attack action, your first attack gets +2 damage and then your second attack will be with your claw (presumably enhanced by a crimson rite) which will allow you to use your bonus action for another claw attack. That seems to be the best of both worlds.
fluff wise i found blood hunter amazing for creating amazing backstories fitting in most of the games, but since im more and less noob, i would like, if possible, to guide me.
I will ask specifically for two of the subclasses, lycan and mutant.
Lycan: I really love the idea to play as a hybrid mostly with my fists. In vtm, playing gangrel was my favorite. So how viable is a build that focusing in Predatory Strikes? if im not mistaken you can go in and out in hybrid form as a bonus action now and thats a plus. Should i go full dex with con and Win for the bloodlust ? My idea was 8/15/15/10/8 (no race) getting two weapon fighting and stick as i said to P.S. Is it viable? What changes can i make?
Mutant: As it may stated already i really see mutant as a Witcher subclass. Before the revised all i see about that subclass was really bad reviews. Did something changed that made this subclass good? And how will you build a witcher theme build?
tnx in advance for every small advice that you might give.
EDID: P.S i want to stick clearly to that class without adding sublcasses
IIRC, the problem with the Mutant was that the negative effects of the various mutagens made them essentially worthless. Now, at level 7, you can use a bonus action to eliminate the side effects for one minute, which essentially means that for the cost of one bonus action, you'll never have to worry about them in combat, and you'll essentially never have to worry about them in a social situation either.
exactly. Lycans want both INT and WIS. But if you can set your position correctly bloodlust is not a problem, and with low WIS you lose Senses more and less.. cant decide too
I wonder if resilient (wis) would be worth a pickup or if that is too expensive for a blood hunter. Even so, I would not use Wis as a dump stat, but you could probably get by with 11 and the feat.
fluff wise i found blood hunter amazing for creating amazing backstories fitting in most of the games, but since im more and less noob, i would like, if possible, to guide me.
I will ask specifically for two of the subclasses, lycan and mutant.
Lycan: I really love the idea to play as a hybrid mostly with my fists. In vtm, playing gangrel was my favorite. So how viable is a build that focusing in Predatory Strikes? if im not mistaken you can go in and out in hybrid form as a bonus action now and thats a plus. Should i go full dex with con and Win for the bloodlust ? My idea was 8/15/15/10/8 (no race) getting two weapon fighting and stick as i said to P.S. Is it viable? What changes can i make?
I would have to say extremely viable! I created an Order of the Lycan this week and posted a video about it. Leveled her up from 1 to 10 so you can see all the changes. It's here if you want to take a look: Order of the Lycan Build. So in my build I went with stat array: STR 8, DEX 14, CON 15, INT 12, WIS 13, and CHA 10. I then picked the Wood Elf to get that Dex up to 16 and Wisdom to 14. INT, in my opinion, is not as important for the Order of the Lycan as it may be for other subclasses. With Wisdom, you get the help on Bloodlust... but there are also Perception checks smell and hearing and fiend, fey detection that are all WIS base. and with Wood Elf, you get Perception as a skill.
I used the Dueling fighting style... that way she could have a Short Sword (Finesse), Studded Leather, and Shield to give me a high AC. When she goes into "beast mode", she only loses one point of AC when she throws down the weapon and shield... and the damage output with 3 attacks at 5th level and Crimson Rite is absolutely nuts!
Also... At level 10, the character I built has +10 Claw attacks, maxed DEX, and a 50' Base Speed!
Anyways... hope this helps with your decision... definitely check out the video. When I was done recording I almost felt that this character was too powerful... but I love it so much! :)
Fantastic! Glad I could help. I really enjoyed creating this character! Order of the Lycan is a combat BEAST for sure! Now... if I could just find a game to play this character in... lol.
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I will note that the new spread of mutagens for the Order of the Mutant are baller as hell, with the right selections. Being able to break 20 on your Strength/Dex/Int score is pretty huge, and a clever player can find ways to game or mitigate the weaknesses of the mutagens she wants to use. It's less straightforward than RAWRGHMAUL Lycan builds, but if you're doing things like a Blood Hunting archer, there's some tricks you can work to get some real baller combos going.
Impermeable, for example, gives resistance to piercing attacks in exchange for vulnerability to slashing damage. That sounds awful...until you realize that virtually all weapon-based distance attacks are piercing, and many common Mook Weapons (shortswords, spears, daggers) are also piercing. A Blunter who fights with bow or crossbow can utilize positioning to protect herself from melee slashing threats like beasts while gaining resistance to any damage that's likely to come from other archers, and at 7th level you can do that while also getting +3 to your Dex score, to a maximum of 23 instead of 20. That's a +6 mod, the equivalent of getting a +1 weapon for free that stacks with whatever other +whatever weapons you have.
Mutant is a lot better than it used to be. I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss it.
The mutagen +3 stat works well with items like headband of intellect of belt of giant strength because it let's you get a +2 modifier instead of just +1.
If you do a Dex build based on predatory strikes, I would consider using a rapier and pick the dueling fighting style. Then when you use the attack action, your first attack gets +2 damage and then your second attack will be with your claw (presumably enhanced by a crimson rite) which will allow you to use your bonus action for another claw attack. That seems to be the best of both worlds.
The rule says......." When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike," I'm sure no DM is going to let you weapon attack and claw claw. Even if they did, you would need to activate the Crimson right twice, once for your weapon and once for your claws if you wanted it for all, making this less effective or at least a bigger hit point drain.
I would consider lining the wisdom up at 10....yes it doesn't help with the Lycan hunter concept and there is a risk of going berzerk (isn't that part of the fun?) but the extra damage from higher intelligence makes up for this---Brand of Castigation damage is based off intelligence, and this is doubled at 13 and applied to EVERY hit, no matter the source.
Dex based Lycan works better as it's simply less MAD. If you go strength based you still need a dex of 14 to get the most from medium armor. While Dex based you can dump strength, and dex is much more useful in general...However I feel it doesn't fit my roleplay idea as well. Maybe you can envision yourself as a Cheetah Lycan type it makes more sense the the more traditional were-creature.
If you do a Dex build based on predatory strikes, I would consider using a rapier and pick the dueling fighting style. Then when you use the attack action, your first attack gets +2 damage and then your second attack will be with your claw (presumably enhanced by a crimson rite) which will allow you to use your bonus action for another claw attack. That seems to be the best of both worlds.
The rule says......." When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike," I'm sure no DM is going to let you weapon attack and claw claw. Even if they did, you would need to activate the Crimson right twice, once for your weapon and once for your claws if you wanted it for all, making this less effective or at least a bigger hit point drain.
Yeah, our BH typically only activates the rite for his claws and not for the sword. But it’s a magic sword so it already has its own stuff going on.
I’m actually pretty surprised you take issue with this strategy. It never even occurred to me that someone might find it runs afoul of the rule. The guy is taking the attack action and attacking with an unarmed strike. He is also attacking with his sword.
Hi there Wally checked your vídeo, its an interesting guide, altought i dont agree on INT 12.
For the lycan mostly everything besides INT checks and Hemocraft save DC says (minimum 1) , which means they will be the same as INT 12.
To really make a diference for those abilities using INT as lycan at least 14 is needed.
DEX is a must MAX.
CON is not a must MAX but it is advisable, even though health not as big an issue as it was, it still packs a punch, besides better CON saves are always welcomed.
INT gives higher saves in STR, DEX and CON, also gives some damage from brands and effects from amplified curses, although there are almost no saves involving INT.
WIS allows you to control your form and gives you nice saves, WIS saves are usually very dangerous to fail. WIS also allows you to multiclass to stuff like cleric which goes way better with lycan in my opinion.
To me the real choise is between 3 options (examples below are point buy and human Variant)
(STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA)
1) 8 / 16 / 16 / 8 / 16 / 8 ( Resilient WIS or CON gets the 16)
- Will allow you to max DEX and CON.
- Have great WIS.
- Take profit of minimum 1 INT.
- Multiclass options
2) 8 / 16 / 16 / 16 / 8 / 8 ( Resilient CON gets the 16)
- Will allow you to max DEX and CON.
- Good INT, +3 STR, DEX and CON saving throws, more brand damage, better DCs for amplified curses.
- Ignore minimum 1 and bad WIS.
- Fighter or wizard multiclass
3) 8 / 16 / 16 / 14 / 10 / 8 ( Resilient is not needed since points are evenly spread)
- Will allow you to max DEX and CON.
- Somewhat good INT, +2 STR, DEX, CON saving throws, more brand damage, better DCs for amplified curses.
- Ignore minimum 1 and better than dump WIS, that is why is advise resilient WIS here.
- Unless we spent an ASI on wisdom multiclass options remain as Fighter and Wizard.
Hmmm... yes, I cannot disagree with you. It does seem that most of the time we would get the +1 modifier even if our INT was lower than 12... I think my original plan was to set up her INT for a +2 bonus at level 8 or 12 if I decided not to max DEX.
I might consider, dropping my INT to 10 and putting CHA at 12 in this case... So I can get the bonus on Intimidation checks.
Looks like you used Point Buy... how would you do a standard Array? Again I went with:
8 / 14 / 15 / 12 / 13 / 10
And Wood Elf to get DEX to 16 and to WIS to 14.
Great conversation... I love this stuff. :)
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It's not easy to find a good one with standart array, this class is just MAD beyond belief.
8 / 14 / 15 / 13 / 12 / 10 high elf I suppose but this leaves CON at 15 which you can invest later but since we are gonna max DEX first, CON remains at 15 until 12.
8 / 15 /14 / 13 / 12 / 10 with human variant(dex, int) and Resilient WIS, this gives you INT 14 DEX 16 and 13 WIS for the multiclass requirements.
If i was using standart array i'd probably take the second one, but i don't like playing Elf and that affects my choise a lot too.
The thing i love the most in the blood hunter is the fact that you can be the saving throw king, STR has advantage because lycan, STR, DEX, CON get dark augmentation to either +2 or +3, Relient WIS gets or WIS up there, only CHA gets left out.
Was my complaint about the change from Wisdom to Int for the Lycan to begin with. Probably should make this it's own class. strength based Bear or Wolf type...?
Here is my Werebear Beorn at 4th...strength based and straight Human...Could also drop Wisdom and raise Con or Int...would give an odd score in that stat but more freedom for a feat or ASI later.
It's not easy to find a good one with standart array, this class is just MAD beyond belief.
8 / 14 / 15 / 13 / 12 / 10 high elf I suppose but this leaves CON at 15 which you can invest later but since we are gonna max DEX first, CON remains at 15 until 12.
8 / 15 /14 / 13 / 12 / 10 with human variant(dex, int) and Resilient WIS, this gives you INT 14 DEX 16 and 13 WIS for the multiclass requirements.
If i was using standart array i'd probably take the second one, but i don't like playing Elf and that affects my choise a lot too.
The thing i love the most in the blood hunter is the fact that you can be the saving throw king, STR has advantage because lycan, STR, DEX, CON get dark augmentation to either +2 or +3, Relient WIS gets or WIS up there, only CHA gets left out.
Hello there,
fluff wise i found blood hunter amazing for creating amazing backstories fitting in most of the games, but since im more and less noob, i would like, if possible, to guide me.
I will ask specifically for two of the subclasses, lycan and mutant.
Lycan: I really love the idea to play as a hybrid mostly with my fists. In vtm, playing gangrel was my favorite. So how viable is a build that focusing in Predatory Strikes? if im not mistaken you can go in and out in hybrid form as a bonus action now and thats a plus. Should i go full dex with con and Win for the bloodlust ? My idea was 8/15/15/10/8 (no race) getting two weapon fighting and stick as i said to P.S. Is it viable? What changes can i make?
Mutant: As it may stated already i really see mutant as a Witcher subclass. Before the revised all i see about that subclass was really bad reviews. Did something changed that made this subclass good? And how will you build a witcher theme build?
tnx in advance for every small advice that you might give.
EDID: P.S i want to stick clearly to that class without adding sublcasses
If you do a Dex build based on predatory strikes, I would consider using a rapier and pick the dueling fighting style. Then when you use the attack action, your first attack gets +2 damage and then your second attack will be with your claw (presumably enhanced by a crimson rite) which will allow you to use your bonus action for another claw attack. That seems to be the best of both worlds.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
IIRC, the problem with the Mutant was that the negative effects of the various mutagens made them essentially worthless. Now, at level 7, you can use a bonus action to eliminate the side effects for one minute, which essentially means that for the cost of one bonus action, you'll never have to worry about them in combat, and you'll essentially never have to worry about them in a social situation either.
I'm also working on a Blood Hunter lycan Build
I can't seem to decide how ill spread my AS.
The caracther now takes advantge of INT so i though 8/15/15/15/8/8 with Human variant for reslient WIS and point in DEX and INT.
With INT you get Damage on Brand of castigation which once per rest on one enemy is not that big of a deal even if doubled.
But at level 10 the +3 on STR, DEX, CON saving throws is kinda huge, but of course this means i wont be maxing out CON, which is not good either.
Cant seem to decide, i want INT, but WIS is so huge on Lycan too..
Any1 with an awesome AS spread on Blood Hunter Lycan?
exactly. Lycans want both INT and WIS. But if you can set your position correctly bloodlust is not a problem, and with low WIS you lose Senses more and less.. cant decide too
I wonder if resilient (wis) would be worth a pickup or if that is too expensive for a blood hunter. Even so, I would not use Wis as a dump stat, but you could probably get by with 11 and the feat.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I would have to say extremely viable! I created an Order of the Lycan this week and posted a video about it. Leveled her up from 1 to 10 so you can see all the changes. It's here if you want to take a look: Order of the Lycan Build. So in my build I went with stat array: STR 8, DEX 14, CON 15, INT 12, WIS 13, and CHA 10. I then picked the Wood Elf to get that Dex up to 16 and Wisdom to 14. INT, in my opinion, is not as important for the Order of the Lycan as it may be for other subclasses. With Wisdom, you get the help on Bloodlust... but there are also Perception checks smell and hearing and fiend, fey detection that are all WIS base. and with Wood Elf, you get Perception as a skill.
I used the Dueling fighting style... that way she could have a Short Sword (Finesse), Studded Leather, and Shield to give me a high AC. When she goes into "beast mode", she only loses one point of AC when she throws down the weapon and shield... and the damage output with 3 attacks at 5th level and Crimson Rite is absolutely nuts!
Also... At level 10, the character I built has +10 Claw attacks, maxed DEX, and a 50' Base Speed!
Anyways... hope this helps with your decision... definitely check out the video. When I was done recording I almost felt that this character was too powerful... but I love it so much! :)
I have a YouTube channel with 5th Edition D&D Puzzles, Character Creations, DM Tips and Quests ideas. Check it out!
Wally DM on YouTube
tnx for your time writing this. i have already opened your channel to watch the video. you just increased my hype to sky now...
Fantastic! Glad I could help. I really enjoyed creating this character! Order of the Lycan is a combat BEAST for sure! Now... if I could just find a game to play this character in... lol.
I have a YouTube channel with 5th Edition D&D Puzzles, Character Creations, DM Tips and Quests ideas. Check it out!
Wally DM on YouTube
I will note that the new spread of mutagens for the Order of the Mutant are baller as hell, with the right selections. Being able to break 20 on your Strength/Dex/Int score is pretty huge, and a clever player can find ways to game or mitigate the weaknesses of the mutagens she wants to use. It's less straightforward than RAWRGHMAUL Lycan builds, but if you're doing things like a Blood Hunting archer, there's some tricks you can work to get some real baller combos going.
Impermeable, for example, gives resistance to piercing attacks in exchange for vulnerability to slashing damage. That sounds awful...until you realize that virtually all weapon-based distance attacks are piercing, and many common Mook Weapons (shortswords, spears, daggers) are also piercing. A Blunter who fights with bow or crossbow can utilize positioning to protect herself from melee slashing threats like beasts while gaining resistance to any damage that's likely to come from other archers, and at 7th level you can do that while also getting +3 to your Dex score, to a maximum of 23 instead of 20. That's a +6 mod, the equivalent of getting a +1 weapon for free that stacks with whatever other +whatever weapons you have.
Mutant is a lot better than it used to be. I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss it.
Please do not contact or message me.
The mutagen +3 stat works well with items like headband of intellect of belt of giant strength because it let's you get a +2 modifier instead of just +1.
The rule says......." When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike," I'm sure no DM is going to let you weapon attack and claw claw. Even if they did, you would need to activate the Crimson right twice, once for your weapon and once for your claws if you wanted it for all, making this less effective or at least a bigger hit point drain.
I would consider lining the wisdom up at 10....yes it doesn't help with the Lycan hunter concept and there is a risk of going berzerk (isn't that part of the fun?) but the extra damage from higher intelligence makes up for this---Brand of Castigation damage is based off intelligence, and this is doubled at 13 and applied to EVERY hit, no matter the source.
Dex based Lycan works better as it's simply less MAD. If you go strength based you still need a dex of 14 to get the most from medium armor. While Dex based you can dump strength, and dex is much more useful in general...However I feel it doesn't fit my roleplay idea as well. Maybe you can envision yourself as a Cheetah Lycan type it makes more sense the the more traditional were-creature.
well you are quite right about the role-play...
Yeah, our BH typically only activates the rite for his claws and not for the sword. But it’s a magic sword so it already has its own stuff going on.
I’m actually pretty surprised you take issue with this strategy. It never even occurred to me that someone might find it runs afoul of the rule. The guy is taking the attack action and attacking with an unarmed strike. He is also attacking with his sword.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Hi there Wally checked your vídeo, its an interesting guide, altought i dont agree on INT 12.
For the lycan mostly everything besides INT checks and Hemocraft save DC says (minimum 1) , which means they will be the same as INT 12.
To really make a diference for those abilities using INT as lycan at least 14 is needed.
DEX is a must MAX.
CON is not a must MAX but it is advisable, even though health not as big an issue as it was, it still packs a punch, besides better CON saves are always welcomed.
INT gives higher saves in STR, DEX and CON, also gives some damage from brands and effects from amplified curses, although there are almost no saves involving INT.
WIS allows you to control your form and gives you nice saves, WIS saves are usually very dangerous to fail. WIS also allows you to multiclass to stuff like cleric which goes way better with lycan in my opinion.
To me the real choise is between 3 options (examples below are point buy and human Variant)
(STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA)
1) 8 / 16 / 16 / 8 / 16 / 8 ( Resilient WIS or CON gets the 16)
- Will allow you to max DEX and CON.
- Have great WIS.
- Take profit of minimum 1 INT.
- Multiclass options
2) 8 / 16 / 16 / 16 / 8 / 8 ( Resilient CON gets the 16)
- Will allow you to max DEX and CON.
- Good INT, +3 STR, DEX and CON saving throws, more brand damage, better DCs for amplified curses.
- Ignore minimum 1 and bad WIS.
- Fighter or wizard multiclass
3) 8 / 16 / 16 / 14 / 10 / 8 ( Resilient is not needed since points are evenly spread)
- Will allow you to max DEX and CON.
- Somewhat good INT, +2 STR, DEX, CON saving throws, more brand damage, better DCs for amplified curses.
- Ignore minimum 1 and better than dump WIS, that is why is advise resilient WIS here.
- Unless we spent an ASI on wisdom multiclass options remain as Fighter and Wizard.
Hmmm... yes, I cannot disagree with you. It does seem that most of the time we would get the +1 modifier even if our INT was lower than 12... I think my original plan was to set up her INT for a +2 bonus at level 8 or 12 if I decided not to max DEX.
I might consider, dropping my INT to 10 and putting CHA at 12 in this case... So I can get the bonus on Intimidation checks.
Looks like you used Point Buy... how would you do a standard Array? Again I went with:
8 / 14 / 15 / 12 / 13 / 10
And Wood Elf to get DEX to 16 and to WIS to 14.
Great conversation... I love this stuff. :)
I have a YouTube channel with 5th Edition D&D Puzzles, Character Creations, DM Tips and Quests ideas. Check it out!
Wally DM on YouTube
It's not easy to find a good one with standart array, this class is just MAD beyond belief.
8 / 14 / 15 / 13 / 12 / 10 high elf I suppose but this leaves CON at 15 which you can invest later but since we are gonna max DEX first, CON remains at 15 until 12.
8 / 15 /14 / 13 / 12 / 10 with human variant(dex, int) and Resilient WIS, this gives you INT 14 DEX 16 and 13 WIS for the multiclass requirements.
If i was using standart array i'd probably take the second one, but i don't like playing Elf and that affects my choise a lot too.
The thing i love the most in the blood hunter is the fact that you can be the saving throw king, STR has advantage because lycan, STR, DEX, CON get dark augmentation to either +2 or +3, Relient WIS gets or WIS up there, only CHA gets left out.
Was my complaint about the change from Wisdom to Int for the Lycan to begin with. Probably should make this it's own class. strength based Bear or Wolf type...?
Here is my Werebear Beorn at 4th...strength based and straight Human...Could also drop Wisdom and raise Con or Int...would give an odd score in that stat but more freedom for a feat or ASI later.
https://ddb.ac/characters/24167939/1Aukky
This class really dosen't agree with STR based builds anymore, too MAD for that, specially because heavy armor is not really worth for it.
This class is more into DEX, i am thinking of it as a more fasty dexterous werewolf than a strength bulky one.