Hello fellow adventurers, I come seeking some combat clarification so as to avoid becoming that guy at our table/online session.
As a Lovecraft lover, the lore and flavor behind the Hunger of Hadar just puts a big ole Cheshire grin on my maniacal mug, and as soon as it was available for my warlock, I made sure she learned it.
However, in studying its effective applications and accompanying rules and rolls, I gleamed through various message boards and posts and I found a hefty consensus feeling that it pretty much leaves most martial classes in your party twiddling their thumbs. Since they don't want to run into a freezing, acid filled void that imposes the blinded condition on them, while any sort of ranged attackers would be attacking with disadvantage since they'd be shooting into a 10' to 20' sphere of blackness, depending on its placement.
So, to hopefully try and not shut the rest of my party out of combat, I began looking at the Devil's Sight Invocation and the Flock of Familiars spell.
Devil's Sight allowing my character to see through all darkness while the Flock of Familiars would give me four flying familiars (cast at 3rd level) I could direct on my turn while maintaining concentration on the hunger.
So, I was wondering, does the DS invocation allow me pierce the tentacly veil? I know Jeremy Crawford has, in the past, ruled that it doesn't but I've just come to learn that his views are no longer considered official or binding, and am wondering if any other official ruling has been made regarding this combo?
Because if it can allow my warlock to see into the void, the plan would be to have her direct her four familiars to flitter about above where she sees the enemies she caught in the Hunger to give other characters an idea of where they were standing, laying, and/or getting dissolved by tentacles, and hopefully cancel out their disadvantage when they start shooting arrows and hurling spears or spells.
Devil's Sight allowing my character to see through all darkness while the Flock of Familiars would give me four flying familiars (cast at 3rd level) I could direct on my turn while maintaining concentration on the hunger.
So, I was wondering, does the DS invocation allow me pierce the tentacly veil? I know Jeremy Crawford has, in the past, ruled that it doesn't but I've just come to learn that his views are no longer considered official or binding, and am wondering if any other official ruling has been made regarding this combo?
The only official ruling was Jeremy's tweet, from back when he still considered his tweets to be official rulings. That said, I agree with him; the spell is careful to avoid calling the void an area of darkness. Either way, this whole thing is a non-starter since:
Showing your friends where the creatures are isn't going to negate the disadvantage of not being able to see them. It just means they won't waste their action targeting the wrong space.
You're probably better off looking for other ways to employ Hunger of Hadar. In my opinion this kind of spell is easier to use in encounters with multiple enemies where you can use it to keep some of them out of the picture while your pals clean up the rest; that way you can divide and conquer and your friends aren't left sitting around looking for something to do. If any enemies make their way out of the void, you can always push them back in with Repelling Blast (or a regular shove.)
Alternatively, if you want a reliable way to take advantage of Devil's Sight, you can always find an unoccupied corner of the battlefield and cast Darkness around yourself. Enemies can't see you, but you can see them, so you're free to snipe at them with Eldritch Blast. Just make sure you're doing it a safe distance away from any Light cantrips the rest of your party might be relying on.
Could you possibly link me to where it says flock of familiars is a concentration spell? Every source I go to online says-
Duration: 1 hour
with no mention of it being concentration like say... heh Hunger of Hadar-
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
I've seen posts on this site, reddit, and rpg stack exchange that mention its concentration but I've never been able to find an official source that mentions concentration.
Thanks again for taking the time to try and set me straight and I hope I can finally get some clarification on the Flock!
Oh, and I just realized you linked those spells in your answer, but I haven't bought the digital packs associated with those spells so I can't see them.
In the campaign I'm DMing, the warlock has Hunger of Hadar. What they've done a few times is the two martial classes line up on the edge of the spell, outside the spell radius, and try to keep enemies contained within the AOE. They don't go in so as not to get blinded, but they fight those that get out and sometimes shove them back.
I suggest using information found only in the physical book, digital copy, or official errata. Googling Flock of Familiar leads to some inaccurate wiki pages.
Could you possibly link me to where it says flock of familiars is a concentration spell? Every source I go to online says-
Duration: 1 hour
with no mention of it being concentration like say... heh Hunger of Hadar-
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
I've seen posts on this site, reddit, and rpg stack exchange that mention its concentration but I've never been able to find an official source that mentions concentration.
Thanks again for taking the time to try and set me straight and I hope I can finally get some clarification on the Flock!
:)
I used the link for Flock of Familiars and can attest that it's a concentration spell.
There would be no disadvantage for ranged attackers, as being unseen to the target means advantage, but they cancel each other out.
That's a fair point, depending on the DMs interpretation of whether you can see the creatures or not. If you can't see them, then the unseen attacker rules make attacks against then be with disadvantage instead of granting advantage. It doesn't specifically say that is the case, but I could see why a DM would rule that way. It doesn't help the melee martials out, unless they've got thrown weapons. I'd probably have more intelligent creatures move towards the attacks since that would be the only orientation that they could rely upon since the attacks reveal your location (though I'd only rule the direction not the exact location).
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Hello fellow adventurers, I come seeking some combat clarification so as to avoid becoming that guy at our table/online session.
As a Lovecraft lover, the lore and flavor behind the Hunger of Hadar just puts a big ole Cheshire grin on my maniacal mug, and as soon as it was available for my warlock, I made sure she learned it.
However, in studying its effective applications and accompanying rules and rolls, I gleamed through various message boards and posts and I found a hefty consensus feeling that it pretty much leaves most martial classes in your party twiddling their thumbs. Since they don't want to run into a freezing, acid filled void that imposes the blinded condition on them, while any sort of ranged attackers would be attacking with disadvantage since they'd be shooting into a 10' to 20' sphere of blackness, depending on its placement.
So, to hopefully try and not shut the rest of my party out of combat, I began looking at the Devil's Sight Invocation and the Flock of Familiars spell.
Devil's Sight allowing my character to see through all darkness while the Flock of Familiars would give me four flying familiars (cast at 3rd level) I could direct on my turn while maintaining concentration on the hunger.
So, I was wondering, does the DS invocation allow me pierce the tentacly veil? I know Jeremy Crawford has, in the past, ruled that it doesn't but I've just come to learn that his views are no longer considered official or binding, and am wondering if any other official ruling has been made regarding this combo?
Because if it can allow my warlock to see into the void, the plan would be to have her direct her four familiars to flitter about above where she sees the enemies she caught in the Hunger to give other characters an idea of where they were standing, laying, and/or getting dissolved by tentacles, and hopefully cancel out their disadvantage when they start shooting arrows and hurling spears or spells.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input!
Flock of Familiars is a concentration spell so you can't have it and Hunger of Hadar at the same time.
The only official ruling was Jeremy's tweet, from back when he still considered his tweets to be official rulings. That said, I agree with him; the spell is careful to avoid calling the void an area of darkness. Either way, this whole thing is a non-starter since:
You're probably better off looking for other ways to employ Hunger of Hadar. In my opinion this kind of spell is easier to use in encounters with multiple enemies where you can use it to keep some of them out of the picture while your pals clean up the rest; that way you can divide and conquer and your friends aren't left sitting around looking for something to do. If any enemies make their way out of the void, you can always push them back in with Repelling Blast (or a regular shove.)
Alternatively, if you want a reliable way to take advantage of Devil's Sight, you can always find an unoccupied corner of the battlefield and cast Darkness around yourself. Enemies can't see you, but you can see them, so you're free to snipe at them with Eldritch Blast. Just make sure you're doing it a safe distance away from any Light cantrips the rest of your party might be relying on.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Thanks for taking the time to comment!
Could you possibly link me to where it says flock of familiars is a concentration spell? Every source I go to online says-
Duration: 1 hour
with no mention of it being concentration like say... heh Hunger of Hadar-
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
I've seen posts on this site, reddit, and rpg stack exchange that mention its concentration but I've never been able to find an official source that mentions concentration.
Thanks again for taking the time to try and set me straight and I hope I can finally get some clarification on the Flock!
:)
Oh, and I just realized you linked those spells in your answer, but I haven't bought the digital packs associated with those spells so I can't see them.
-sorry
Find Familiar does not require concentration. Flock of Familiars does.
In the campaign I'm DMing, the warlock has Hunger of Hadar. What they've done a few times is the two martial classes line up on the edge of the spell, outside the spell radius, and try to keep enemies contained within the AOE. They don't go in so as not to get blinded, but they fight those that get out and sometimes shove them back.
I suggest using information found only in the physical book, digital copy, or official errata. Googling Flock of Familiar leads to some inaccurate wiki pages.
I used the link for Flock of Familiars and can attest that it's a concentration spell.
There would be no disadvantage for ranged attackers, as being unseen to the target means advantage, but they cancel each other out.
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That's a fair point, depending on the DMs interpretation of whether you can see the creatures or not. If you can't see them, then the unseen attacker rules make attacks against then be with disadvantage instead of granting advantage. It doesn't specifically say that is the case, but I could see why a DM would rule that way. It doesn't help the melee martials out, unless they've got thrown weapons. I'd probably have more intelligent creatures move towards the attacks since that would be the only orientation that they could rely upon since the attacks reveal your location (though I'd only rule the direction not the exact location).