The title says it all - I'm guessing they needed to make space for Jack of All Trades, but it leaves Arcane Bards with no healing. I'd lean toward giving bards a choice between Jack and Restoration.

True, but Magical Secrets doesn't kick in until 10th level. I do like the variety of choosing the spell lists, but I think there should be an option for for a bit of healing at low levels for Arcane Bards, and it would still be useful by freeing those prepared slots for Divine and Primal bards.

Yeah, I don't like that Bards have to essentially choose between healing and illusions for their first 9 levels. I also think getting unfettered access to any of the three lists robs them of any identity. Bards are supposed to be tricksters and controllers, not running around fireballing everything like sorcerers (except for Lore.)

I am fine with this choice as it makes the choice of Arcane, Divine or Primal a much more impactful decision. I think magical secrets kinda undoes it too much in fact, I would rather the access to other lists still be some what restricted, say to two spells from each of the other two lists.

I like the choice of lists, but I agree that magical secrets should have been the old style.  That, or new style but half-caster.  New style magical secrets + full caster is too much, IMO.

OR: if they want to stay full casters: magical secrets grants 1 more list (so it’s like a divine soul sorcerer: gets two total lists, not all three).

Giving them access to all three lists at Level 10 does seem bonkers. Honestly, letting Bards choose their spell list at Level 1 seems a bit nuts. I'm not sure I'm sold on the story of Primal or Divine Bards. As for Bards not having healing spells in early levels, let's also remember another part of the tradeoff. Bards now have access to the FULL spell list, not just certain schools. While I'm not sure I like it thematically(I thought the idea of restricting spells by school for certain classes was intriguing), from a pure power perspective giving Arcane Bards access to Evocation, Abjuration, Necromancy and Conjuration seems like a reasonable tradeoff. 

I don't like the full spell list access.   Bards have d8 hit die, armor, and expertise plus jack of all trades.  They're just turning into superior versions of wizards now.  Full casters are supposed to give something up on the skill/survivability side to get all of that power.  

Quote from pdegan2814 >>

I'm not sure I'm sold on the story of Primal or Divine Bards.  

Primal Bards are the classic Fey tricksters, your Satyr / Pixie types, I'd go with Glamour as your subclass so you've got: Charm Person, Entangle, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Animal Friendship, Heat Metal, Enhance Ability, Silence, Plant Growth, Conjure Animals. You could be the Pied-piper, or a Disney Princess-type singing to your animal friends. In one sentence: "Come along, follow me!"

Divine Bards are the classic cowardly/support Bards, your normal guy who doesn't know how to fight and hides while shouting inspiration at their warrior buddy and runs over to heal them when they fall or who shouts at an approaching enemy to stop and is shocked when they do. I'd go Lore or Dancer as your subclass, and prepare: Command, Cure Wounds, Heroism, Sanctuary, Aid, Calm Emotions, Zone of Truth, Mass Healing Word, Dispel Magic. You could be Dandelion from the Witcher, Jeff from Chuck, Alfred from Batman, or any other support-focused character. In one sentence: "Snap out of it man!"

TBH I have more trouble imagining the pure-Arcana Bard as a Bard rather than just a singing Wizard. 

I think someone suggested that Bards should get a mix of schools from the Arcane and Primal lists, if I recall correctly basically getting everything except evocation and abjuration from Arcane, and getting evocation and abjuration from Primal. They wouldn't get the big damage spells from Arcane, but they'd get some from Primal, and some healing as well. Writers could then decide if Bards could access those spells by the school they make them.

If going for the most bard-y bard thematically, what I'd do is give them: Abjuration & Enchantment from Divine, Illusion & Enchantment from Arcane, and Transmutation + Conjuration from Primal.

But in all honesty, I really want to play a Divine Bard now.

I understand people like Bards being versatile and all, but I don't find someone farting into a horn and a fireball coming out the other side being particularly versatile. It's just an upgraded Wizard that uses Charisma, so now there's little merit to playing either Sorcerer or Wizard (except for very high levelled Wizards with enough money to Create Spell a lot). I liked the previous version better, though I do see the charm in allowing spell list selection for a different playstyle.

They just need to keep the restriction of spell schools, maybe vary it between the lists. Arcane should remain Illusion/Enchantment, Divine will be Divination/Enchantment and Primal will be Transmutation/Conjuration. Then also give them back the Song of Restoration so they could heal for all three options, each flavoured in an appropriate way. And Magical Secrets could allow them to take a second option of the three, so any Bard will only have 2 out of the three options. And Idk about the Lore bards. Give them a free selection for those 2 single spells, I suppose. I don't like it but I know others will. I'm not sure it's all perfectly balanced, but I think it's better than what we currently have.

Quote from pdegan2814 >>

Giving them access to all three lists at Level 10 does seem bonkers. Honestly, letting Bards choose their spell list at Level 1 seems a bit nuts. I'm not sure I'm sold on the story of Primal or Divine Bards. As for Bards not having healing spells in early levels, let's also remember another part of the tradeoff. Bards now have access to the FULL spell list, not just certain schools. While I'm not sure I like it thematically(I thought the idea of restricting spells by school for certain classes was intriguing), from a pure power perspective giving Arcane Bards access to Evocation, Abjuration, Necromancy and Conjuration seems like a reasonable tradeoff. 

 It just makes them sorcerers that inspire allies instead of using metamagic. That's not distinct enough as an identity, they may as well be a subclass at that point.

I would let them have access to all three lists from the get-go, but only Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, Transmutation and Abjuration. That lets you mix and match all the controlly bard stuff with all the healing and protection, but not have them running around with Fireball + Spirit Guardians + Black Tentacles + Animate Dead + Conjure Animals etc. Then they get back Magical Secrets to pick up select spells from the other schools.

• You want a nature-y bard who sings to animals and coaxes plants to entangle their enemies? You can do that.
• You want a traditional illusionist bard who beguiles and jinxes their enemies from the backline? You can do that.
• You want a divine orator who bolsters and heals her allies while hardening their weapons? You can do that.
• You want to mix and match spells from across all three to represent a totally unique tradition? You can do that too!

Quote from pdegan2814 >>

 I'm not sure I'm sold on the story of Primal or Divine Bards. 

 For the divine bard What comes to my mind is Gospel Singer.

I really hated seeing Bards go back to the old way of preparing spells. Even doing the "switch one spell on a long rest" would have been better. But I also don't think that plays particularly well with opening up their spell lists so wide at 10th.

I wasn't necessarily *happy* about the school restrictions when they came out, but I did agree that it made the Bard not just another artillery caster and helped shoehorn them in as a support/utility caster. I felt that was a perfectly viable role.

Now, while they have all sorts of possibilities...at least past 10th level...they are one of the least versatile casters in the game. When you need a particular spell, you need it soon, not next level. And especially if it's a niche spell that really is only useful in certain cases it's awful to make a level-long change. (i.e. You're playing a desert adventure campaign, but you have one session where you need Water Breathing to navigate an underground river.)

Super unhappy with this version of things. You can make your Bard whatever you want them to be...eventually...but you're really only good at that build. You're not actually a jack of all trades.

I was really enjoying the trend towards versatility and prepared spells from prior releases.

Get I get amen, brothers and sisters, I said can I get am AMEN!!

I really like it.

The choice of spell list is very meaningful in the type of bard being played.  Divine spells tend towards buffs, healing, and protection.  Primal spells are classic and tend to fit in between divine and arcane applications for more of that jack of all trades feel.  Arcane spells give us access to that common enchanter / illusionist bard trope as well as some of the less typical tropes.

I feel like there's a significant level of customization again by choosing the spell list and then choosing the spells within that list.  Daily spell preparation isn't something that I find to be that important on a class that also focuses on skills.

I would rather have the variety in build styles than half of a single spell list that I could swap daily.  The first UA bard magical secrets with daily preparation focused more on magic because of the level of daily prep access it gave as an alternative to relying on a mix of skills and spells.

The first UA bards all looked the same and now they don't.  It's easy to expand on versatility with a background feat at 1st level too.  If I want to add healing to an arcane bard, for example, cure wounds is available via magic initiate and the healer feat works.

I like it much better than the first UA bard.

Am I the only one who's confused by the idea that the most iconic jack-of-all-trades class is actually an ace in magic? I always thought bards were supposed to be half-casters, half-experts, half-warriors, capable of leaning into either direction with subclass choice.

I think the big problem for Bards is that they were one of the few classes in 5e that justified having an entirely unique spell list.

A better solution might be instead of making them choose a spell list, let them choose three schools of magic with some exclusions (evocation?). So your classic Bard mix would be something like abjuration, enchantment and illusion, but you'd be free to go for some more unusual mixtures if you prefer.

Quote from kamchatmonk >>

Am I the only one who's confused by the idea that the most iconic jack-of-all-trades class is actually an ace in magic? I always thought bards were supposed to be half-casters, half-experts, half-warriors, capable of leaning into either direction with subclass choice.

You're not alone; I'd personally be fine with them being a half caster (or a pseudo two-thirds caster via magical secrets?) but with a stronger version of Bardic Inspiration, e.g- put Bardic Inspiration back to a reaction (as in the expert playtest) but with a slightly smaller dice and no limited uses, so you can use it every round to tweak rolls, then a limited use feature to boost it further (add another dice, or roll advantage)?

To make Bard a half-caster they'd need a significant boost to their other combat options, or it will end up like the Artificer - Alchemist.