Am I way off, or is the prevailing fantasy of the Druid, at least today, that you can turn into animals?
I mean, in the new movie Honor Among Thieves there's a Druid, and I don't think she casts a spell even once. She Wild Shapes a lot though! It's her primary thing to do in combat. She's nowhere near as limited in her use of it as you would be playing a Druid, either.
This is a little less of a thing in The Legend of Vox Machina, where their Druid does cast spells, but even still, it's a lot of Wild Shape. It's just a more visually unique thing to do, y'know?
The promotional stuff for the Druid update for Baldur's Gate 3? All about Wild Shape.
I understand that making them primarily shifters instead of casters would make many current Druid characters impossible to play under the new rules. But I'm just curious how people feel about it, independent of their existing characters' potential future next year if they switch to the new books.
I think the problem is that Druids shapeshifting is badly hampered. If they're not circle of moon the CR they can shift into is just so limited that their shapeshifting is basically a novelty/utility thing. Even Circle of the Moon has it at 1/3rd their druid level meaning that the vast majority of even CotM druids will likely rely on the Polymorph spell for combat. I do feel like they're casters, but I do wish their shifting was stronger.
From a player perspective, I've never seen Wild Shape as anything more than another tool on the belt. I'm playing one right now, and he actively avoids using it (partially that's an RP thing, since I'm using Circle of the Blighted from the CR Tal'Dorei book and their wild shapes come out... wrong, even if they're slightly more powerful), but I've certainly never felt limited by sticking mainly to spells
The other recent campaign I was in where someone was playing a druid, her go-to move was moonbeam, not wild shape
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Druids are sages with close connection to nature first and foremost, that's how they are in folklore. Shapeshifting has always been an awkward feature. In some games, it turns druid into a pseudo-barbarian with way less skills than the real barbarian. In other games, that makes druid both martial and a caster at the same time. None is quite good. When used for utility, it's fine, gaining access to spider climb, bird's wings, or a mole's ability to burrow, but combat wild shape should be left to Cirsle of the Moon exclusively. Otherwise, either basic wild shape is half-assed and not good for actual combat, or it is so good that there's no point in making a subclass to upgrade it (while also being a great blaster and great healer at the same time).
I mean, in the new movie Honor Among Thieves there's a Druid, and I don't think she casts a spell even once. She Wild Shapes a lot though! It's her primary thing to do in combat. She's nowhere near as limited in her use of it as you would be playing a Druid, either.
I think the movie shouldn't be used too much as a guide; Edgin doesn't cast any magic either because they wanted that to be Simon's whole deal so it didn't feel diminished by everyone and their mum casting spells all the time.
I definitely don't want to see Druids become wildshapers and not much else, it's part of why I was disappointed by the Druid UA when it dropped; in the pre-release interview Crawford talked about wanting more viable options to be a "nature mage", focus on support etc., but in the end all we got was find familiar and the fine at low levels healing blossom, the Druid was pretty much all wildshape features other than that.
I want to see wildshape scaling moved to that feature, with all other channel natures gaining some form of scaling, or class features that allow more to be done with any channel nature (being able to use any two at once would be cool). I'd also like to see another channel nature focused on casting, either some kind of spell-slot recovery (useful but boring) or some kind of temporary boost to casting.
Wildshape should be a tool in the Druid's kit that they can focus on if they want, use only some of the time if they prefer, or ignore entirely in favour of something else, and still be a Druid, because Druids are supposed to be "nature mages" first (wildshape should be 2nd level again IMO).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The lack of feats and magic items to boost Wildshape means that it will never be competitive with dedicated martial characters beyond level 6. And TBH it was never really meant to, it is a bonus unique utility features to Druid that makes them distinct from all other casters, which is how it should be. It can be used for scouting, social encounters, avoiding traps and reaching hard to reach places. There just isn't enough to be done with shapeshifting to make an entire class around it.
So, if I'm getting this right, the prevailing opinion is that they shouldn't be focused on Wild Shape because Wild Shape isn't that good. Not because it's not thematically strong enough, not because spellcasting necessarily fits the fantasy better, but because Wild Shape is unworkably weak. Is that it?
With the exception of Haravikk, who really wants them to be nature mages first and foremost.
All fair opinions! I don't agree with them, but I'm just one person
1) I'm in the "you need both for druids to feel like druids, but they are nature mages more than they are shapeshifters" camp. (As an aside - while Keyleth does indeed do a lot of shapeshifting in LVM, it's definitely her spells that turn the tide of a sideways fight moreso than her claws. She's a mage.)
2) I'm totally fine with wildshape being available at level 1. And at level 1, turning into even a CR 1/4 creature like a wolf or boar, or a level 1 Beast of the Land with Str/Dex = Wis (depending on your preferred varietal), are both solid and useful offensive powers. I personally prefer the latter, but we'll see what they come back with from our surveys.
3) Tiny forms need to be available in Tier 1, if not right at level 1. The movie showed us very clearly how even a non-moon druid could make use of them. Crawford's point about Tiny forms being too good for their size if they follow the UA stat rules makes sense, but I think it's possible to weaken them for utility use without rendering them entirely useless by putting them in Tier 3.
While I think Druids are more defined by magic related to nature, we need to keep in mind that 5e has chipped away at that niche. I mean, Tempest Clerics, Storm Sorcs, Twilight Cleric, etc. And the strongest elemenal damage spells are either Arcane or get boosted by Cleric subclass more than Druid. So I think Wildshape in some form is important to differentiate the Dryid from other spellcasting subclasses. It makes for great utility and can be reasonablely strong in Tier 1 and 2 if boosted enough by the rules. Part of the problem I see is that caster identity is whittled away in general in 5e with so many traditionally nin-casters getting spellcasting as well.
I would love to play a nature mage, the reason I didn't focus on that is because I don't think Druid really fulfills that fantasy very well either currently. They get no class features relating to that, and their spells are a mishmash of things that often don't really fulfill the fantasy either. A few do - Entangle, Spike Growth, Erupting Earth, Plant Growth, Speak to Animals, Conjure Animals - but a whole lot of the time I've seen druids using mainly healing spells making them little more than a cleric with a green thumb. Part of the problem is that as soon as the enemies can fly 90% of the nature-theme spells on the druid list don't work, but also just... most of the high level druid spells are situational, really most of their spell list is TBH, and without extra spell preparations like Cleric, you're kind of stuck with only the small number of good generalizable druid spells prepared.
If you could use Channel Nature either to recover a spell slot, or to a burst of elemental damage similar to Divine Spark, that would feel pretty nature-magey.
So, if I'm getting this right, the prevailing opinion is that they shouldn't be focused on Wild Shape because Wild Shape isn't that good. Not because it's not thematically strong enough, not because spellcasting necessarily fits the fantasy better, but because Wild Shape is unworkably weak. Is that it?
No, I don't think that's the reason, both are important (and optionally having one or more animals as allies could be added, although in 5e this is only part of summons through magic), but I prefer that he specialize according to the subclass, I think wildshape should generally be useful... Combat? not recommended if your subclass does NOT strengthen it in that line (Not only the one on the moon, there could be other subclasses that enhance wildshape even if they do not focus solely on that, or improve it in things other than combat.), but it is an option in cases of emergency, such as being caught sneaking around, or fighting by pretending to be just an animal so as not to alert while your party moves in to infiltrate or ambush them in the rear.
So out of is/those subclasses that buff wildshape, if they would be predominantly nature mages, and highlight unique things to significantly differentiate themselves from others with subclasses something close to nature or elements.
Crawford's point about Tiny forms being too good for their size if they follow the UA stat rules makes sense
Does it make sense though? His argument is basically "because we already ruined wildshape, we had to ruin it even more"; they created a problem to solve a problem caused by another problem that they themselves created. 😂
With the exception of Haravikk, who really wants them to be nature mages first and foremost.
To be clear, I think they should be nature mages that have wildshape available as an option in their toolkit; I don't want to see wildshape go away or be diminished in any way, I just don't think it's crucial to every druid.
If a player goes circle of the moon, and focuses on spells etc. to support that, they should be able to spend a lot of their time wildshaped and still pull their weight, or even function as a resource bound melee fighter or tank in a pinch. Equally, a more mixed player might cast magic a lot of the time, and use wildshape at every opportunity for sneaking, deception etc., should be valuable too.
But I also want to see good support for the druid that doesn't wildshape often (if at all). In 5e we got that to a degree with some sub-classes like Circle of Spores, Circle of Stars and Circle of Wildfire which gained other things to spend their wildshape on. But I'd really like to see a default way to do it, rather than having to go to a sub-class for that (especially as we don't know when we might get one).
This is why I generally support the idea of the change to Channel Nature so we've got a built in resource that isn't specifically for wildshape, but the ways we have to spend it are currently pretty lacklustre (including the UA version of wildshape).
OneD&D provides a good opportunity to reset and re-establish the druid as the dominant nature mage again; other classes can keep their pretenders, but the druid should be the one doing more somehow. I'd love a Channel Nature that enabled a druid to concentrate on two spells at once if they meet certain conditions (e.g- is plant or animal related?), or which enabled them to cast two spells on the same turn to setup combos more easily, something that lets us go more into nature mage if we want to, while wildshapers can continue doing their thing if they want to (and others can mix and match).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
To be clear, I think they should be nature mages that have wildshape available as an option in their toolkit; I don't want to see wildshape go away or be diminished in any way, I just don't think it's crucial to every druid.
If a player goes circle of the moon, and focuses on spells etc. to support that, they should be able to spend a lot of their time wildshaped and still pull their weight, or even function as a resource bound melee fighter or tank in a pinch. Equally, a more mixed player might cast magic most of the time, and use wildshape for sneaking, deception etc., and that should be valuable to.
But I also want to see good support for the druid that doesn't wildshape often (if at all). In 5e we got that to a degree with some sub-classes like Circle of Spores, Circle of Stars and Circle of Wildfire which gained other things to spend their wildshape on. But I'd really like to see a default way to do it, rather than having to go to a sub-class for that (especially as we don't know when we might get one).
This is why I generally support the idea of the change to Channel Nature so we've got a built in resource that isn't specifically for wildshape, but the ways we have to spend it are currently pretty lacklustre (including the UA version of wildshape).
OneD&D provides a good opportunity to reset and re-establish the druid as the dominant nature mage again; other classes can keep their pretenders, but the druid should be the one doing more somehow. I'd love a Channel Nature that enabled a druid to concentrate on two spells at once if they meet certain conditions (e.g- is plant or animal related?), or which enabled them to cast two spells on the same turn to setup combos more easily, something that lets us go more into nature mage if we want to, while wildshapers can continue doing their thing if they want to (and others can mix and match).
I totally agree with you.
-
What if, unlike the druid AU, I don't want a default use of the nature channel to be healing (Except it's purifying and sanitizing soil, water, animals and / or plants style, that makes more sense to me.) . If I accept it for one or several subclasses, but if it is in all, it will feel very close to being a cleric with a subclass of the nature domain.
The core class fantasy of druid is to be the woodland mystic that has a deep bond with nature and safeguards the world's wild places through communion with natural forces and savage beasts. You absolutely need spellcasting to be able to play that role. But just as Radagast the Brown is an iconic depiction of what a druid is, so is Beorn; the giant man who could speak with animals and transform into a huge black bear.
Ideally, druids in DnD should have ready access to both spellcasting and shapeshifting, with the player being able to lean harder in either direction while still finding success.
Crawford's point about Tiny forms being too good for their size if they follow the UA stat rules makes sense
Does it make sense though? His argument is basically "because we already ruined wildshape, we had to ruin it even more"; they created a problem to solve a problem caused by another problem that they themselves created. 😂
This makes so little sense as size has little impact on game mechanics. Specifically stealth doesn't really get easier with Size. Skill proficiency and biological stats and features are what actually determines
This makes so little sense as size has little impact on game mechanics. Specifically stealth doesn't really get easier with Size. Skill proficiency and biological stats and features are what actually determines
It kind of does get easier with smaller size, but in ways that aren't obvious due to how the rules are (a bit poorly) laid out and lacking in good examples.
A Tiny creature can much more easily Hide since objects that wouldn't provide cover to a Small or larger creature can block a Tiny one. Plus a DM is always free to hand out advantage when a player is making things easier for themselves; so a cat behaving like a cat (rather than clearly eavesdropping) might get advantage on Deception to hide in plain sight and so-on. You can do that as larger creatures too, but Tiny ones usually have more places that they can reasonably be (whereas an NPC might wonder why there's a cow in their basement).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Methinks part of the conceptual problem is that "nature" is so ill-defined.
Involving the four elements ( "element" as a Greek concept) is one way to see it. Involving plants and animals is another way. Or one could well say that nature is everything which is external to humanoids which does not originate from humanoids.
If you will forgive me for being philosophical for one minute, that last sentenc is a major sticking point. After all humans are animals. We eat, drink breathe, defecate, fornicate, etc. Just like most animals do. And as science has developed, it's become far more accepted that things we used in the past to distinguish ourselves as human (IOW not an animal) have fallen away somewhat. Tool use has been found among apes, crows, elephants, parrots. The ability to recognize ourselves in the mirror is also seen in a variety of mammals, even occasionally in dogs and cats.
I bring this up because I think there's a case to be made that Deuids should be able to influence non-beast, non-plant creatures as well. For instance, something like Calm Emotions or certain uses of Command could easily be Druid abilities.
Spellcasting is so powerful in 5e and many versions of D&D that the only support it has ever needed was the ability to do it. 5e druids being full casters is all the support they need toward being nature mages.5e base wizard is mostly dead levels. This weird argument that one dnd druids are now more focused on wildshape is a false narrative.
Am I way off, or is the prevailing fantasy of the Druid, at least today, that you can turn into animals?
I mean, in the new movie Honor Among Thieves there's a Druid, and I don't think she casts a spell even once. She Wild Shapes a lot though! It's her primary thing to do in combat. She's nowhere near as limited in her use of it as you would be playing a Druid, either.
This is a little less of a thing in The Legend of Vox Machina, where their Druid does cast spells, but even still, it's a lot of Wild Shape. It's just a more visually unique thing to do, y'know?
The promotional stuff for the Druid update for Baldur's Gate 3? All about Wild Shape.
I understand that making them primarily shifters instead of casters would make many current Druid characters impossible to play under the new rules. But I'm just curious how people feel about it, independent of their existing characters' potential future next year if they switch to the new books.
I think the problem is that Druids shapeshifting is badly hampered. If they're not circle of moon the CR they can shift into is just so limited that their shapeshifting is basically a novelty/utility thing. Even Circle of the Moon has it at 1/3rd their druid level meaning that the vast majority of even CotM druids will likely rely on the Polymorph spell for combat. I do feel like they're casters, but I do wish their shifting was stronger.
From a player perspective, I've never seen Wild Shape as anything more than another tool on the belt. I'm playing one right now, and he actively avoids using it (partially that's an RP thing, since I'm using Circle of the Blighted from the CR Tal'Dorei book and their wild shapes come out... wrong, even if they're slightly more powerful), but I've certainly never felt limited by sticking mainly to spells
The other recent campaign I was in where someone was playing a druid, her go-to move was moonbeam, not wild shape
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Druids are sages with close connection to nature first and foremost, that's how they are in folklore. Shapeshifting has always been an awkward feature. In some games, it turns druid into a pseudo-barbarian with way less skills than the real barbarian. In other games, that makes druid both martial and a caster at the same time. None is quite good. When used for utility, it's fine, gaining access to spider climb, bird's wings, or a mole's ability to burrow, but combat wild shape should be left to Cirsle of the Moon exclusively. Otherwise, either basic wild shape is half-assed and not good for actual combat, or it is so good that there's no point in making a subclass to upgrade it (while also being a great blaster and great healer at the same time).
I think the movie shouldn't be used too much as a guide; Edgin doesn't cast any magic either because they wanted that to be Simon's whole deal so it didn't feel diminished by everyone and their mum casting spells all the time.
I definitely don't want to see Druids become wildshapers and not much else, it's part of why I was disappointed by the Druid UA when it dropped; in the pre-release interview Crawford talked about wanting more viable options to be a "nature mage", focus on support etc., but in the end all we got was find familiar and the fine at low levels healing blossom, the Druid was pretty much all wildshape features other than that.
I want to see wildshape scaling moved to that feature, with all other channel natures gaining some form of scaling, or class features that allow more to be done with any channel nature (being able to use any two at once would be cool). I'd also like to see another channel nature focused on casting, either some kind of spell-slot recovery (useful but boring) or some kind of temporary boost to casting.
Wildshape should be a tool in the Druid's kit that they can focus on if they want, use only some of the time if they prefer, or ignore entirely in favour of something else, and still be a Druid, because Druids are supposed to be "nature mages" first (wildshape should be 2nd level again IMO).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The lack of feats and magic items to boost Wildshape means that it will never be competitive with dedicated martial characters beyond level 6. And TBH it was never really meant to, it is a bonus unique utility features to Druid that makes them distinct from all other casters, which is how it should be. It can be used for scouting, social encounters, avoiding traps and reaching hard to reach places. There just isn't enough to be done with shapeshifting to make an entire class around it.
So, if I'm getting this right, the prevailing opinion is that they shouldn't be focused on Wild Shape because Wild Shape isn't that good. Not because it's not thematically strong enough, not because spellcasting necessarily fits the fantasy better, but because Wild Shape is unworkably weak. Is that it?
With the exception of Haravikk, who really wants them to be nature mages first and foremost.
All fair opinions! I don't agree with them, but I'm just one person
1) I'm in the "you need both for druids to feel like druids, but they are nature mages more than they are shapeshifters" camp. (As an aside - while Keyleth does indeed do a lot of shapeshifting in LVM, it's definitely her spells that turn the tide of a sideways fight moreso than her claws. She's a mage.)
2) I'm totally fine with wildshape being available at level 1. And at level 1, turning into even a CR 1/4 creature like a wolf or boar, or a level 1 Beast of the Land with Str/Dex = Wis (depending on your preferred varietal), are both solid and useful offensive powers. I personally prefer the latter, but we'll see what they come back with from our surveys.
3) Tiny forms need to be available in Tier 1, if not right at level 1. The movie showed us very clearly how even a non-moon druid could make use of them. Crawford's point about Tiny forms being too good for their size if they follow the UA stat rules makes sense, but I think it's possible to weaken them for utility use without rendering them entirely useless by putting them in Tier 3.
While I think Druids are more defined by magic related to nature, we need to keep in mind that 5e has chipped away at that niche. I mean, Tempest Clerics, Storm Sorcs, Twilight Cleric, etc. And the strongest elemenal damage spells are either Arcane or get boosted by Cleric subclass more than Druid. So I think Wildshape in some form is important to differentiate the Dryid from other spellcasting subclasses. It makes for great utility and can be reasonablely strong in Tier 1 and 2 if boosted enough by the rules. Part of the problem I see is that caster identity is whittled away in general in 5e with so many traditionally nin-casters getting spellcasting as well.
I would love to play a nature mage, the reason I didn't focus on that is because I don't think Druid really fulfills that fantasy very well either currently. They get no class features relating to that, and their spells are a mishmash of things that often don't really fulfill the fantasy either. A few do - Entangle, Spike Growth, Erupting Earth, Plant Growth, Speak to Animals, Conjure Animals - but a whole lot of the time I've seen druids using mainly healing spells making them little more than a cleric with a green thumb. Part of the problem is that as soon as the enemies can fly 90% of the nature-theme spells on the druid list don't work, but also just... most of the high level druid spells are situational, really most of their spell list is TBH, and without extra spell preparations like Cleric, you're kind of stuck with only the small number of good generalizable druid spells prepared.
If you could use Channel Nature either to recover a spell slot, or to a burst of elemental damage similar to Divine Spark, that would feel pretty nature-magey.
No, I don't think that's the reason, both are important (and optionally having one or more animals as allies could be added, although in 5e this is only part of summons through magic), but I prefer that he specialize according to the subclass, I think wildshape should generally be useful... Combat? not recommended if your subclass does NOT strengthen it in that line (Not only the one on the moon, there could be other subclasses that enhance wildshape even if they do not focus solely on that, or improve it in things other than combat.), but it is an option in cases of emergency, such as being caught sneaking around, or fighting by pretending to be just an animal so as not to alert while your party moves in to infiltrate or ambush them in the rear.
So out of is/those subclasses that buff wildshape, if they would be predominantly nature mages, and highlight unique things to significantly differentiate themselves from others with subclasses something close to nature or elements.
Does it make sense though? His argument is basically "because we already ruined wildshape, we had to ruin it even more"; they created a problem to solve a problem caused by another problem that they themselves created. 😂
To be clear, I think they should be nature mages that have wildshape available as an option in their toolkit; I don't want to see wildshape go away or be diminished in any way, I just don't think it's crucial to every druid.
If a player goes circle of the moon, and focuses on spells etc. to support that, they should be able to spend a lot of their time wildshaped and still pull their weight, or even function as a resource bound melee fighter or tank in a pinch. Equally, a more mixed player might cast magic a lot of the time, and use wildshape at every opportunity for sneaking, deception etc., should be valuable too.
But I also want to see good support for the druid that doesn't wildshape often (if at all). In 5e we got that to a degree with some sub-classes like Circle of Spores, Circle of Stars and Circle of Wildfire which gained other things to spend their wildshape on. But I'd really like to see a default way to do it, rather than having to go to a sub-class for that (especially as we don't know when we might get one).
This is why I generally support the idea of the change to Channel Nature so we've got a built in resource that isn't specifically for wildshape, but the ways we have to spend it are currently pretty lacklustre (including the UA version of wildshape).
OneD&D provides a good opportunity to reset and re-establish the druid as the dominant nature mage again; other classes can keep their pretenders, but the druid should be the one doing more somehow. I'd love a Channel Nature that enabled a druid to concentrate on two spells at once if they meet certain conditions (e.g- is plant or animal related?), or which enabled them to cast two spells on the same turn to setup combos more easily, something that lets us go more into nature mage if we want to, while wildshapers can continue doing their thing if they want to (and others can mix and match).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I totally agree with you.
-
What if, unlike the druid AU, I don't want a default use of the nature channel to be healing (Except it's purifying and sanitizing soil, water, animals and / or plants style, that makes more sense to me.) . If I accept it for one or several subclasses, but if it is in all, it will feel very close to being a cleric with a subclass of the nature domain.
The core class fantasy of druid is to be the woodland mystic that has a deep bond with nature and safeguards the world's wild places through communion with natural forces and savage beasts. You absolutely need spellcasting to be able to play that role. But just as Radagast the Brown is an iconic depiction of what a druid is, so is Beorn; the giant man who could speak with animals and transform into a huge black bear.
Ideally, druids in DnD should have ready access to both spellcasting and shapeshifting, with the player being able to lean harder in either direction while still finding success.
This makes so little sense as size has little impact on game mechanics. Specifically stealth doesn't really get easier with Size. Skill proficiency and biological stats and features are what actually determines
It kind of does get easier with smaller size, but in ways that aren't obvious due to how the rules are (a bit poorly) laid out and lacking in good examples.
A Tiny creature can much more easily Hide since objects that wouldn't provide cover to a Small or larger creature can block a Tiny one. Plus a DM is always free to hand out advantage when a player is making things easier for themselves; so a cat behaving like a cat (rather than clearly eavesdropping) might get advantage on Deception to hide in plain sight and so-on. You can do that as larger creatures too, but Tiny ones usually have more places that they can reasonably be (whereas an NPC might wonder why there's a cow in their basement).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Methinks part of the conceptual problem is that "nature" is so ill-defined.
Involving the four elements ( "element" as a Greek concept) is one way to see it. Involving plants and animals is another way. Or one could well say that nature is everything which is external to humanoids which does not originate from humanoids.
If you will forgive me for being philosophical for one minute, that last sentenc is a major sticking point. After all humans are animals. We eat, drink breathe, defecate, fornicate, etc. Just like most animals do. And as science has developed, it's become far more accepted that things we used in the past to distinguish ourselves as human (IOW not an animal) have fallen away somewhat. Tool use has been found among apes, crows, elephants, parrots. The ability to recognize ourselves in the mirror is also seen in a variety of mammals, even occasionally in dogs and cats.
I bring this up because I think there's a case to be made that Deuids should be able to influence non-beast, non-plant creatures as well. For instance, something like Calm Emotions or certain uses of Command could easily be Druid abilities.
Influencing people through hypnosis is a classic ability attributed to ancient druids
i brought it up in conversation in a thread I started, trying to trigger a discussion about alternatives to just plain wildshape as channel nature
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/unearthed-arcana/167927-ua-druid-channel-nature
Spellcasting is so powerful in 5e and many versions of D&D that the only support it has ever needed was the ability to do it. 5e druids being full casters is all the support they need toward being nature mages.5e base wizard is mostly dead levels. This weird argument that one dnd druids are now more focused on wildshape is a false narrative.