A lot of people have issues with the existing encounter generation rules, or just don't understand them, so I thought I'd ask: what would a good encounter generation system look like?
I really do not think a "core adventuring day" should be more than 2-3 encounters. Any more than that is the epic march at the villain's strongholdin the finale of an arc.
I would also like to add that any section discussing encounter generation also ought to include a wide range of scene types, where not every encounter needs to be hostile. The challenge could be about the best use of party resources to help a group of NPCs with their immediate troubles, how to navigate a dangerous environmental hazard/obstacle, or other such things. I'm a firm believer that not everything with a challenge rating warrants an initiative roll, and that the game should reward exploration and exchanges, in addition to extermination.
If the adventuring day consists of six different combat encounters, you're either hip-deep in a dread dungeon, or coming to realise that Old Gnarley Forest is in fact a hellscape.
Train your group from the start that EXP comes from overcoming or surviving any type of challenge; whether with wits, weapons, or wonder.
The system should be flexible enough to accomodate most of these options. Encounter generation rules need to be as versatile as the rest of the system.
That said? It would be interesting to see a system that broke down by day rather than by individual encounter, with a subset of rules for designing individual encounters/Slow Days. The whole 'Daily XP Budget' thing is explained incredibly poorly, and if more DMs were given better tools for designing multiple encounter days people might have more multiple-encounter days. Since everyone seems to oh-so-despise the whole 'one fight per day' mentality a lot of games assume, in part because the books only ever teach DMs how to build single, individual fights with no real regard paid to the idea of a 'Daily XP budget'. Given the existence and preponderance of Milestone leveling, using XP as the budgeting mechanism is itself weird and could do with a refresh.
I had the same thought, Yureibeans. It'd be a fresh take on pacing and encounter design if there were some helpful tips for the DM about taking a step back and take a look at the bigger picture. How certain encounters string together to form a mini-story. Using multiple encounters to paint a theme, so to speak. Things like that.
And, yes, also budgeting for the day, rather than the scene. That'd be just ducky as well :)
I would also like to add that any section discussing encounter generation also ought to include a wide range of scene types, where not every encounter needs to be hostile.
While this is true and I should probably have specified 'combat encounters', most non-combat encounters do not result in substantial resource cost (other than time) so the number of them you have per day doesn't make much difference.
The system should be flexible enough to accomodate most of these options. Encounter generation rules need to be as versatile as the rest of the system.
You need to have some default assumptions or the complexity rapidly explodes into something entirely unmanageable.
The basic problem with daily budgets, other than being horribly explained, is that having a daily budget requires adding complexity to how you score encounters. The whole "add up the xp of the monsters, then modify for the number of monsters" is only necessary because daily budgets exist, and two monsters at the same time are more dangerous than the same two monsters in separate encounters. Otherwise, you could just use a simple "Here's your budget, add monsters until their total point value matches the budget". You'd want different point values for monsters than their current xp, but it's totally doable. It's just that doing this means you can no longer use those point values for a daily budget.
I would also like to add that any section discussing encounter generation also ought to include a wide range of scene types, where not every encounter needs to be hostile. The challenge could be about the best use of party resources to help a group of NPCs with their immediate troubles, how to navigate a dangerous environmental hazard/obstacle, or other such things. I'm a firm believer that not everything with a challenge rating warrants an initiative roll, and that the game should reward exploration and exchanges, in addition to extermination.. . .
EDIT: Also! Welcome to the forums, Bozy!
Heey! Nice to be here.
I agree with the sentiment of "not every encounter is a combat one", and with that in mind, then sure, the # of encounters in a day should increase, ubt... well, in non-combat encounters, the only resources being spent on any regular rate are caster spell slots. Not sure how to factor that into a model...
Hmms. There are also resources in the form of consumables or other gear used, such as the rogue eating a Beef Jerky of Spider Climb to reach the guillotine trap in the ceiling? Or the warlock gleefully pouring oil and lemon-coated caltrops down a stairwell. And other non-spell features like a druid using wildshape to infiltrate the hobgoblin camp in the form of a quokka? Barbarian working themselves into a frothing fury to push a tree down over a river so the party can cross it. Fighter using the *excellent* new Tactical Mind feature to win an impromptu bake-off contest against the warchef of the local Kua-Toa tribe?
Sure, you're right that spells are the go-to indicator of how much battery is left in the characters, but there are plenty of opportunities to spend your non-magical tricks outside of turning beasties into EXP.
I'm not disagreeing with you, though - just expanding on what you're saying :)
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A lot of people have issues with the existing encounter generation rules, or just don't understand them, so I thought I'd ask: what would a good encounter generation system look like?
Moderately/moderately/defeat/individual/2-3
I really do not think a "core adventuring day" should be more than 2-3 encounters. Any more than that is the epic march at the villain's strongholdin the finale of an arc.
I would also like to add that any section discussing encounter generation also ought to include a wide range of scene types, where not every encounter needs to be hostile. The challenge could be about the best use of party resources to help a group of NPCs with their immediate troubles, how to navigate a dangerous environmental hazard/obstacle, or other such things. I'm a firm believer that not everything with a challenge rating warrants an initiative roll, and that the game should reward exploration and exchanges, in addition to extermination.
If the adventuring day consists of six different combat encounters, you're either hip-deep in a dread dungeon, or coming to realise that Old Gnarley Forest is in fact a hellscape.
Train your group from the start that EXP comes from overcoming or surviving any type of challenge; whether with wits, weapons, or wonder.
EDIT: Also! Welcome to the forums, Bozy!
The system should be flexible enough to accomodate most of these options. Encounter generation rules need to be as versatile as the rest of the system.
That said? It would be interesting to see a system that broke down by day rather than by individual encounter, with a subset of rules for designing individual encounters/Slow Days. The whole 'Daily XP Budget' thing is explained incredibly poorly, and if more DMs were given better tools for designing multiple encounter days people might have more multiple-encounter days. Since everyone seems to oh-so-despise the whole 'one fight per day' mentality a lot of games assume, in part because the books only ever teach DMs how to build single, individual fights with no real regard paid to the idea of a 'Daily XP budget'. Given the existence and preponderance of Milestone leveling, using XP as the budgeting mechanism is itself weird and could do with a refresh.
Please do not contact or message me.
I had the same thought, Yureibeans. It'd be a fresh take on pacing and encounter design if there were some helpful tips for the DM about taking a step back and take a look at the bigger picture. How certain encounters string together to form a mini-story. Using multiple encounters to paint a theme, so to speak. Things like that.
And, yes, also budgeting for the day, rather than the scene. That'd be just ducky as well :)
While this is true and I should probably have specified 'combat encounters', most non-combat encounters do not result in substantial resource cost (other than time) so the number of them you have per day doesn't make much difference.
You need to have some default assumptions or the complexity rapidly explodes into something entirely unmanageable.
The basic problem with daily budgets, other than being horribly explained, is that having a daily budget requires adding complexity to how you score encounters. The whole "add up the xp of the monsters, then modify for the number of monsters" is only necessary because daily budgets exist, and two monsters at the same time are more dangerous than the same two monsters in separate encounters. Otherwise, you could just use a simple "Here's your budget, add monsters until their total point value matches the budget". You'd want different point values for monsters than their current xp, but it's totally doable. It's just that doing this means you can no longer use those point values for a daily budget.
Heey! Nice to be here.
I agree with the sentiment of "not every encounter is a combat one", and with that in mind, then sure, the # of encounters in a day should increase, ubt... well, in non-combat encounters, the only resources being spent on any regular rate are caster spell slots. Not sure how to factor that into a model...
Hmms. There are also resources in the form of consumables or other gear used, such as the rogue eating a Beef Jerky of Spider Climb to reach the guillotine trap in the ceiling? Or the warlock gleefully pouring oil and lemon-coated caltrops down a stairwell. And other non-spell features like a druid using wildshape to infiltrate the hobgoblin camp in the form of a quokka? Barbarian working themselves into a frothing fury to push a tree down over a river so the party can cross it. Fighter using the *excellent* new Tactical Mind feature to win an impromptu bake-off contest against the warchef of the local Kua-Toa tribe?
Sure, you're right that spells are the go-to indicator of how much battery is left in the characters, but there are plenty of opportunities to spend your non-magical tricks outside of turning beasties into EXP.
I'm not disagreeing with you, though - just expanding on what you're saying :)