So I'm running a campaign with a PC who's mother is a warlock under the influence of an evil, manipulative patron. The PC has managed to free her from the patron's influence and I'm entering the next stage of this arc.
On the one side, the NPC is leaving an emotionally abusive relationship with their patron. It's a very delicate RP situation but one that I have a handle on.
On the other side, my NPC has also been stripped of the magic they've relied on to survive for nearly two decades. I'm approaching this as a form of addiction and having her go through the arcane equivalent of withdrawal/detox. I'm a little more concerned about this stage of the arc and am looking for any advice as to how to do it "right". I've done research on breaking addiction but I'm still a little troubled about a few things.
1) What does withdrawal from a magic addiction look like? Is it purely a psychological addiction or is there an element of physical addiction as well?
2) How do I present withdrawal in a realistic way and still ensure that we're staying respectful to the real-world issue of addiction? Should I drop this element of the story arc entirely?
3) Can a patron withdraw a warlock's powers but still retain a connection? If so, the patron has a vendetta against the PC and would have no problem increasing the NPC's suffering as a form of revenge.
Thanks in advance for any help, I know this is a delicate topic which is why I want to make sure that it's handled in an appropriate way. My apologies to anyone I've offended through ignorance.
1) I'd say withdrawal from loosing your magic could be both psychological and physical symtoms, in the sense that your body essence has lost connection to the Weave from which spellcasters channel their magic, and psychologically may affect the NPC from sheer power reduction, feeling de-powered and powerless both in soul body and mind.
2) I don't think you should drop it if it was an integral part of your plot or storyline. It's also very unique and particular so it has merits i think. You could present withdrawal in a realistic way by having the person show distinctives signs or behaviors such has fever, shake desinterest, obsession etc...
3) A DM can do anything! The magic bestowed on a warlock by its Patron could be cut off, loosing access to the Spellcasting or Eldritch Invocations features of a Warlock for exemple. The connection between them could still remain and even have their pact restore it after the completion of a specific task or result.
So I'm running a campaign with a PC who's mother is a warlock under the influence of an evil, manipulative patron. The PC has managed to free her from the patron's influence and I'm entering the next stage of this arc.
On the one side, the NPC is leaving an emotionally abusive relationship with their patron. It's a very delicate RP situation but one that I have a handle on.
On the other side, my NPC has also been stripped of the magic they've relied on to survive for nearly two decades. I'm approaching this as a form of addiction and having her go through the arcane equivalent of withdrawal/detox. I'm a little more concerned about this stage of the arc and am looking for any advice as to how to do it "right". I've done research on breaking addiction but I'm still a little troubled about a few things.
1) What does withdrawal from a magic addiction look like? Is it purely a psychological addiction or is there an element of physical addiction as well?
2) How do I present withdrawal in a realistic way and still ensure that we're staying respectful to the real-world issue of addiction? Should I drop this element of the story arc entirely?
3) Can a patron withdraw a warlock's powers but still retain a connection? If so, the patron has a vendetta against the PC and would have no problem increasing the NPC's suffering as a form of revenge.
Thanks in advance for any help, I know this is a delicate topic which is why I want to make sure that it's handled in an appropriate way. My apologies to anyone I've offended through ignorance.
As written, patrons cannot withdraw powers already given. It's not a subscription service. This is mostly written in reference to question three. You're into home brew territory, so that's going to work however you want it to. The addiction parts of the question i have no input that is grounded in anything beyond speculation.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I think a lot of DMs view it as you do, and bad DMs use that as unfair leverage over their players. That's clearly not what you're trying to do particularly as an NPC, but I have seen many threads over the years about DMs trying to use their pact to remove player agency from their players. DM's word is law though. For the sake of your story, perhaps the mother's pact WAS some flavor of subscription service, and now she's cut the cord and trying to figure out how to live life without her shows. That's the thing of a pact and a contract...terms are terms. They assume that the terms are a straight bargain for power. Do this for me, and you gain this power.
Nothing to say that it'CAN'T be a yearly fee
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I do agree that it would be unfair to use it as leverage against a player, at least any more than any powerful NPC would try to railroad the PCs (again, a DM choice and not a particularly good one).
In this case I'm viewing it less like a subscription service and more like a contract with a termination clause. I decided to go with the idea that "opting out" terminates the benefits of the pact for both the Warlock and the Patron (essentially, for story purposes, the NPC Warlock is their Patron's equivalent to a Familiar), at least in this campaign.
Moving forward, and especially with PC Warlocks, I'll stick with RAI!
Thanks for everyone's feedback! Thought I'd post a follow up now that the arc is resolved.
1) I decided to approach it predominantly as psychological addiction, but there was initially a brief period of intense symptoms of physical withdrawal as the remaining magic drained from her body(more on that later).
2) Obviously, that means that I kept the arc in, though I scaled it down from my original vision. This was significantly easier thanks to some clever and effective role-playing on the part of the player (more on that below as well).
3) I decided to go with the idea that the severing the connection was complete but, since the Patron is a consummate deceiver, he claimed that the physical withdrawal symptoms were in fact pain that he was inflicting as punishment for the PC defying him. So I was able to keep the intended story beat of using her pain to try and leverage the PC.
In the end, the PC tricked the patron (a CE demigod attempting to ascend to full godhood) into revealing that he needs the player to help him unravel "the Tapestry of Fate" so that he can reweave fate to achieve his goals (think of it as a free will butterfly effect). The PC took this information, plus some hints from seemingly unrelated plot threads that were ment to merge later in the campaign, and petitioned the God of Fate to help him (while spending a level advancement and doing the necessary RP to become a cleric of said deity). So now Mom is safely under the care and protection of the PC's deity and the patron is pursuing his agenda through a different route (which the PCs will eventually have to discover and thwart).
All in all, it ended up being a good way to help establish the patron as a dangerous secondary BBEG (one that's pursuing the same overall goals as the PCs but for much darker purposes).
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Hello all!
So I'm running a campaign with a PC who's mother is a warlock under the influence of an evil, manipulative patron. The PC has managed to free her from the patron's influence and I'm entering the next stage of this arc.
On the one side, the NPC is leaving an emotionally abusive relationship with their patron. It's a very delicate RP situation but one that I have a handle on.
On the other side, my NPC has also been stripped of the magic they've relied on to survive for nearly two decades. I'm approaching this as a form of addiction and having her go through the arcane equivalent of withdrawal/detox. I'm a little more concerned about this stage of the arc and am looking for any advice as to how to do it "right". I've done research on breaking addiction but I'm still a little troubled about a few things.
1) What does withdrawal from a magic addiction look like? Is it purely a psychological addiction or is there an element of physical addiction as well?
2) How do I present withdrawal in a realistic way and still ensure that we're staying respectful to the real-world issue of addiction? Should I drop this element of the story arc entirely?
3) Can a patron withdraw a warlock's powers but still retain a connection? If so, the patron has a vendetta against the PC and would have no problem increasing the NPC's suffering as a form of revenge.
Thanks in advance for any help, I know this is a delicate topic which is why I want to make sure that it's handled in an appropriate way. My apologies to anyone I've offended through ignorance.
1) I'd say withdrawal from loosing your magic could be both psychological and physical symtoms, in the sense that your body essence has lost connection to the Weave from which spellcasters channel their magic, and psychologically may affect the NPC from sheer power reduction, feeling de-powered and powerless both in soul body and mind.
2) I don't think you should drop it if it was an integral part of your plot or storyline. It's also very unique and particular so it has merits i think. You could present withdrawal in a realistic way by having the person show distinctives signs or behaviors such has fever, shake desinterest, obsession etc...
3) A DM can do anything! The magic bestowed on a warlock by its Patron could be cut off, loosing access to the Spellcasting or Eldritch Invocations features of a Warlock for exemple. The connection between them could still remain and even have their pact restore it after the completion of a specific task or result.
As written, patrons cannot withdraw powers already given. It's not a subscription service. This is mostly written in reference to question three. You're into home brew territory, so that's going to work however you want it to. The addiction parts of the question i have no input that is grounded in anything beyond speculation.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Thanks! Out of curiosity, what's the reference material for the Warlock/Patron information that you used?
designers tweet on it.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1221978854119460866
video with the old senior designer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiS5mkIff_8
The video explicitly states that the patron cannot take the power away. Specifically, around 2:15 in the video.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Thank you for sharing! Completely changes how I've always viewed the warlock/patron relationship.
I think a lot of DMs view it as you do, and bad DMs use that as unfair leverage over their players. That's clearly not what you're trying to do particularly as an NPC, but I have seen many threads over the years about DMs trying to use their pact to remove player agency from their players. DM's word is law though. For the sake of your story, perhaps the mother's pact WAS some flavor of subscription service, and now she's cut the cord and trying to figure out how to live life without her shows. That's the thing of a pact and a contract...terms are terms. They assume that the terms are a straight bargain for power. Do this for me, and you gain this power.
Nothing to say that it'CAN'T be a yearly fee
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I do agree that it would be unfair to use it as leverage against a player, at least any more than any powerful NPC would try to railroad the PCs (again, a DM choice and not a particularly good one).
In this case I'm viewing it less like a subscription service and more like a contract with a termination clause. I decided to go with the idea that "opting out" terminates the benefits of the pact for both the Warlock and the Patron (essentially, for story purposes, the NPC Warlock is their Patron's equivalent to a Familiar), at least in this campaign.
Moving forward, and especially with PC Warlocks, I'll stick with RAI!
Thanks for everyone's feedback! Thought I'd post a follow up now that the arc is resolved.
1) I decided to approach it predominantly as psychological addiction, but there was initially a brief period of intense symptoms of physical withdrawal as the remaining magic drained from her body(more on that later).
2) Obviously, that means that I kept the arc in, though I scaled it down from my original vision. This was significantly easier thanks to some clever and effective role-playing on the part of the player (more on that below as well).
3) I decided to go with the idea that the severing the connection was complete but, since the Patron is a consummate deceiver, he claimed that the physical withdrawal symptoms were in fact pain that he was inflicting as punishment for the PC defying him. So I was able to keep the intended story beat of using her pain to try and leverage the PC.
In the end, the PC tricked the patron (a CE demigod attempting to ascend to full godhood) into revealing that he needs the player to help him unravel "the Tapestry of Fate" so that he can reweave fate to achieve his goals (think of it as a free will butterfly effect). The PC took this information, plus some hints from seemingly unrelated plot threads that were ment to merge later in the campaign, and petitioned the God of Fate to help him (while spending a level advancement and doing the necessary RP to become a cleric of said deity). So now Mom is safely under the care and protection of the PC's deity and the patron is pursuing his agenda through a different route (which the PCs will eventually have to discover and thwart).
All in all, it ended up being a good way to help establish the patron as a dangerous secondary BBEG (one that's pursuing the same overall goals as the PCs but for much darker purposes).