I am considering using shillelagh with a bladelock. But I can't find a good way to get shillelagh to be a Charisma spell. Best way I can think of is a Bard 6, but that's a substantial investment in Bard. I thought maybe Favored Soul (Nature Domain) could do it, but they only get the spells from the Nature Domain, not the Nature ability that includes the shillelagh cantrip. Of course I could pick it up pretty easy with Wisdom, by choosing Druid 1 or Cleric (Nature) 1 or the Feat. Which might be worth it. But, that comes with some MAD issues, maintaining both Charisma and Wisdom. I am hoping for a way to focus on primarily Charisma with this.
Anyone have any ideas? Is there maybe a UA or a tidbit in a book that I've missed?
The best answer I can give you is: STOP. Please allow me to elaborate
Shillelagh doesn't become available to the warlock until level 3 where you have a choice between Blade, Chain, or Tome. Choose Tome and you can get the cantrip, but you're no longer a Bladelock by definition. Let's make this even simpler - you shouldn't need to use shillelagh, like, ever. Your pact weapon is made of magic and can be any weapon, and you're automatically proficient with it so why pick something you would need to cast shillelagh on? I mean, you could pick a great axe for 1d12 or a great sword for 2d6 which far surpasses the 1d8 limit set by the spell. Didn't make strength your strong suit? Use a dex based weapon like a rapier! That will keep you at 1d8 for damage, but you could still be useful in a melee skirmish.
I'm curious as to your thought process, but as of now I'm assuming you want to pump up the charisma stat for Eldritch Blast and still be effective as a close range combatant. Forget Eldritch blast for now - you're a Bladelock, close quarter combat is what you do! For the early levels, pick Devil's Sight invocation and Darkness as a second level spell and pump up your attack stat. Pick the Lifedrinker invocation at level 12 and you get to add your str/dex stat AND your charisma to the damage roll. By the time you get here you should have a 20 str (or dex) and a 18 cha (bump this up next!) for a grand total of 9 damage per hit as your bonus!. At this point, you have an idea of where you fit into the battlefield, and if you pumped dex - a pretty decent AC! At level 16, max out cha and it's +10/hit.
Or do whatever it is YOU have planned, but it's gonna cost you a 1 level dip to multiclass Druid. You'd get the cantrip, but you'd have to spread your resources pretty thin to get good enough numbers in that many attributes.
Also, in the wording of the Shillelagh spell, specifically "the wood of the club/quarterstaff"... your pact weapon is made of magic, not wood. Ask your DM for a ruling, but to me that says it wouldn't work on your pact blade.
I'm currently having a lot fun playing a Bladelock, I hope this helps YOU have fun too!
Blyster, thanks for your reply. To answer your questions:
1) Shillelagh can become available at level 1, if I take a feat or class at level 1 that has it. My intent is to get it through a second class because there is no way to get it as a charisma-based spell while also remaining a single-classed Blade Pact Warlock that I know of;
2) Shillelagh is a great spell because it ADDS YOUR SPELLCASTING STAT to the damage done with the weapon, and also uses your spellcasting stat to determine your attack bonus with it. And it is cast on any existing club or quarterstaff, even one which is also your pact weapon (your pact weapon takes the form of any normal existing weapon on the normal weapon list, like a club or quarterstaff, and you can also make any magic weapon your pact weapon), and also makes that club or quarterstaff into a d8 weapon like a longsword, so you can use a shield in the other hand just like a longsword;
3) Lifedrinker adds your Charisma score as a bonus necromantic damage, which is IN ADDITION TO the charisma damage added already from Shillelagh (because Lifedrinker isn't actually adding your Charisma score as bonus damage directly, it's just using it to calculate the amount of a different kind of additional damage - neccromantic). This means with Shillelagh and Lifedrinker, you effectively add your Charisma score twice to each hit with the Shillelagh. So a 20 Charisma would be 1d8 +5 (Chr) +5 (necromantic) each hit, without having to worry about any other stat. Of course, with Thristing Blade, this means you're attacking twice each time you use the attack action (so now, if you hit both times using your Charisma modifier for the attack bonus, you do 2d8+10 (chr) +10 (necromantic)). And possibly three times with your bonus action, with things like Polearm Master (which includes a quarterstaff), though that second end damage will use a d4+10 instead of a d8+10 (according to Jeremy Crawford). Which could mean, if the attacks all hit, you can do 2d8+1d4+15 (chr) + 15 (necromantic) in a round (average 41.5 damage) all without focusing on any stat other than Charisma, and without using any limited resources to do it (as a cantrip and always-on things like a feat and invocations).
Anyway, the bottom line is I am trying to find a way to get Shillelagh as a charisma-powered spell, and right now I can only find one way to do that - Bard 6. All the other methods make it a Wisdom-powered spell (such as the feat, or Druid 1, or Cleric 1 (Nature)), which is not what I am looking for as, if I were going to go for a second stat to power this, I could instead just use Strength or Dexterity with any appropriate weapon as you mentioned and forgo Shillelagh entirely.
It may not be worth it, as you say. But, first I'd like to find out if there is a way to do it with fewer levels than 6 bard levels, and then I can figure out if it's worth it or not.
My view was that Shillelagh was the Tomelocks answer to the Bladelock, as when it is taken at the 3rd Warlock level as one of the cantrips in your warlocks book of shadows. The Tomelock uses charisma, whereas if a Bladelock took Magic Initiate Druid to gain Shillelagh as a cantrip, they would have to use Wisdom for their Druid spells.
Seriously a Bladelock should only consider this if they are prepared to accept that they need to advance Wis as well as Str/Dex and Cha. Which is a vital attribute anyway, perception checks, survival and the routine wisdom saves. I would check out the new invocations which may be up your street or even look at creating a homebrew one like the one below, which I just put together.
Branch of Relkath of the Infinite Branches (Prerequisite 3rd Level and Archfey Pact)
You can cast Shillelagh at Will, without expending a spell slot and the only material component you need is a wooden staff or club. (The staff or club is not consumed by the spell and Shillelagh uses Charisma as its spellcasting stat.
(I had contemplated having the prerequisite as 5th level) Relkath is an Archfey Treant, I might work at creating an Invocation for Tree Stride).
Go read shillelagh again. Read as written, and I quote, "you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls". One more time, that reads instead of, not in addition to. If your DM is allowing you to use BOTH your strength AND your spellcasting ability (the spell doesn't specify which ability, BTW) you are playing with an extremely lenient DM, and you're definitely not in league play.
And where do you get adding the full ability score (I'm assuming that's where you're getting your 15 in your reply) versus adding the modifier (for 15 would be a +2) as laid out in the PHB and elsewhere? Even with a maxed out cha and str OR (not and, that's not how it works) dex, with Lifedrinker you'd only add a max of 10!
The way the spell is worded, allowing you to add BOTH is pretty sketchy and I wouldn't let that fly as a DM. If yours does (more power to you), the spell doesn't require your spellcasting stat be wisdom in the first place! Abuse it!
Go read shillelagh again. Read as written, and I quote, "you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls". One more time, that reads instead of, not in addition to. If your DM is allowing you to use BOTH your strength AND your spellcasting ability (the spell doesn't specify which ability, BTW) you are playing with an extremely lenient DM, and you're definitely not in league play.
And where do you get adding the full ability score (I'm assuming that's where you're getting your 15 in your reply) versus adding the modifier (for 15 would be a +2) as laid out in the PHB and elsewhere? Even with a maxed out cha and str OR (not and, that's not how it works) dex, with Lifedrinker you'd only add a max of 10!
The way the spell is worded, allowing you to add BOTH is pretty sketchy and I wouldn't let that fly as a DM. If yours does (more power to you), the spell doesn't require your spellcasting stat be wisdom in the first place! Abuse it!
We're not on the same page here at all, which is probably my fault for not spelling it out clearer. Here, I will walk you through the build:
For this example let's say you start with a Half-Elf Bard. You start with a 16 Charisma, and the +2 from Half-Elf brings that up to an 18 Charisma.
You use a quarterstaff as your weapon, in addition to some other weapons.
Note for Bard, it says, "Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your bard spells."
At 3rd level you choose Lore College for your Bardic College.
At 4th level you take the Ability Score Improvement to Charisma, so your Charisma is now 20.
At 6th level you get the "Additional Magical Secrets" ability from Lore Bard, which says:
"At 6th level, you learn two spells of your choice from any class. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip. The chosen spells count as bard spells for you but don't count against the number of bard spells you know." With this ability you choose the cantrip Shillelagh.
Shillelagh says:
"The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature’s power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon, and the weapon's damage die becomes a d8. The weapon also becomes magical, if it isn’t already. The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go of the weapon."
So this bard with the quarterstaff casts Shillelagh on it. It's now a d8 quarterstaff, which uses your spellcasting ability instead of strength for the attack and damage rolls. Since you're a bard, and it's a bard spell for you, that means it uses your Charisma for the attack and damage rolls instead of strength.
So with you 20 Charisma, this bard has a +5 attack bonus to attack with the Shillelagh (because of their Charisma bonus), and it does 1d8 damage, +5 (because of their Charisma bonus). That's it. You don't add strength or anything else, it's just +5 to attack, 1d8+5 damage.
Clear so far?
OK, now our 6th level bard decides to switch to Warlock from here on out. Charisma is also the spellcasting ability for Warlock spells and abilities. So 7th level is the first Warlock level. He picks up the usual Eldritch Blast for one of his cantrips.
At 2nd Warlock level (8th level for this character) he gets two invocations. He chooses Agonizing Blast and Devil's Sight (or whatever - it will change later). He also chooses a feat, and takes Polearm Master. That feat says,
"When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, or quarterstaff, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. This attack is uses the same ability modifer as the primary weapon. The weapon’s damage die for this attack is a d4, and the attack deals bludgeoning damage. [Errata states: The bonus attack uses the same ability modifier as the main attack.] While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter the reach you have with that weapon."
So now our Bard 6/Warlock 2 attacks with his Shillelagh Quarterstaff same as before, which is +5 to attack, and 1d8+5 damage, but then he also gets a second attack as a bonus action which again attacks at a +5 attack and does 1d4+5 damage (and if you need clarity on why that works, see the link I posted above Crawford where he ruled this works fine).
At 3rd Warlock level (which is 9th level for this character) he chooses Pact of the Blade. That ability says,
"You can use your action to create a pact weapon in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it. You are proficient with it while you wield it. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. Your pact weapon disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature again, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or if you die. You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way. The weapon ceases being your pact weapon if you die, if you perform the 1-hour ritual on a different weapon, or if you use a 1-hour ritual to break your bond to it. The weapon appears at your feet if it is in the extradimensional space when the bond breaks."
The form you choose is a quarterstaff. Or, if you prefer, you can perform the ritual on a magical quarterstaff. Either way, you will be casting Shillelagh on it.
In addition, at this same level, he decides to switch one of his invocations. He can do this because the Warlock class says, "Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level." So he switches one of his invocations, Devil's Sight, to be Thirsting Blade instead.
Thirsting Blade says:
"Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature. You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
OK, so now our Bard 6/Warlock 3 can attack once with his Shillelagh Quarterstaff same as before, which is +5 to attack, and 1d8+5 damage, gets a second attack from Thirsting Blade which is again +5 to attack and 1d8+5 damage, and then he gets a third attack as a bonus action from Polearm Master which again attacks at a +5 attack and does 1d4+5 damage.
At Warlock 5 (character level 11) the character gets another new Invocation. He chooses Devil's Sight again (or whatever, it doesn't matter as he will be switching it again soon).
At Warlock 6 (character level 12 - so he gets a feat or ability score increase too) he switches that Devil's Sign innovation again, this time to LifeDrinker. That invocation says,
"Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of the Blade feature When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)."
OK, so now our Bard 6/Warlock 6 can attack once with his Shillelagh Quarterstaff same as before, which is +5 to attack, and 1d8+5 damage, but now he also does necrotic damage equal to his Charisma modifier, which in this case is +5. So it now is +5 Attack, 1d8+5+5, or a total of 1d8+10 (half of that +10 is necrotic).
He now gets a second attack from Thirsting Blade which is again +5 to attack and 1d8+5 damage and +5 necrotic, or a total of 1d8+10 (half of that +10 is necrotic).
And finally, he gets a third attack as a bonus action from Polearm Master which again attacks at a +5 attack and does 1d4+5 damage and +5 necrotic, or a total of 1d4+10 (half of that +10 is necrotic).
So assuming all three attacks are against one creature and they all hit (but are not criticals), we can express it as 2d8+20 (the first two attacks) +1d4+10 (the bonus action attack).
We can assign averages to this. 2d8 averages 9 damage, and 1d4 averages 2.5 damage, so we can say it's an average of 9+20+2.5+10 = 41.5 average damage, if all three attacks hit and none of them are critical hits.
So there you have it, that's how I got to those numbers. It's not ever using Strength or any other ability other than Charisma, and it's only ever using your Charisma modifier not your total Charisma ability score. I feel confident, given discussions on other message boards over the last two years and rulings from Wizards of the Coast, that this works fine.
Now we reach my initial question and reason for starting this thread. Is there a way to get that Shillelagh cantrip, using Charisma as the casting stat for Shillelagh, earlier than Bard 6? Is there some Unearthed Arcana article or some class or feat or magic item or anything in any of the articles or adventures or other books that I have missed that would allow a character to get Shillelagh with a Charisma casting ability any time earlier than Bard 6?
Its easy to get it as a Druid 1, or a Cleric (Nature) 1, or with the Magic Initiate (Druid) feat. But all of those assign Wisdom as the spellcasting ability for the cantrip, and that's no good because the entire goal here is to keep it all Charisma-based so you don't need to focus on two ability scores. The only way I know of, right now, to get Shillelagh using Charisma as the casting stat is Bard 6.
The only way for a Warlock to cast Shillelagh using Charisma as their spellcasting ability is either have Pact of the Tome choosing Shillelagh as one of the three cantrips (Warlock 3rd level) or have 6 Bardic levels or use a Homebrew Eldritch Invocation or DM home ruling.
So if you want to be a Warlock with a pact blade, who wants access to Shillelagh then the options you have:
Use Wisdom
Take Magic Initiate (Druid) Feat, or one level in Druid or Cleric (Nature)
Use Charisma
Take 6 levels in Bard for Magic Secrets, or retcon your character and lose Blade Pact and gain Tome Pact, or use a Homebrew Feat or Invocation (DM home rule)
Ultimately this is a game, the rules are there for balance and to ensure the fun of everyone at the table. Another thing I would suggest is for the DM to just go with it, allow you to try either Magic Initiate Feat (Variant Human or an Ability Score Improvement) or taking a level of Cleric (Nature) or Druid and that the spells you gain use Charisma instead of Wisdom. Let the DM and the party try this, if its broken the party and the DM will obviously let you know. NB other Cleric/Druid features will still use Wisdom, because otherwise we could easily be creating supermunckins with min/max who dip into many classes quite simply to powergame. But if a player wants something for his story that is cool then its definitely possible to work with it.
With further reflection, your character is a warlock and has taken the Pact of the Blade, what does it cost you? What does your Patron want you to sacrifice? Maybe you are not permitted to use Eldritch Blast (warlocks ranged bread and butter) as your Patron prefers you to be up close and personal. To grant you the ability to use Cleric or Druid spells as Warlock ones which use charisma, then its only fair for you to lose something in exchange. Remember there is always a price for power. Often the cost appears cheap, but its in the details that the true cost is revealed.
So my take for the Blade Pact Warlock who wants to cast shillelagh with Charisma instead of Wisdom, its going to cost you something in return. Perhaps its a long term thing such as you either can't cast Eldritch Blast, or you lose an Ability Score Improvement or you cannot take any further Feats (but you get all future Ability Score Improvements). If I was your DM, then I would also offer you a homebrew invocation or feat or magic item as options.
At 3rd Warlock level (which is 9th level for this character) (...) Thirsting Blade says:
"Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature. You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
(...)
At Warlock 6 (character level 12 - so he gets a feat or ability score increase too) he switches that Devil's Sign innovation again, this time to LifeDrinker. That invocation says,
"Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of the Blade feature When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)."
At 3rd Warlock level (which is 9th level for this character) (...) Thirsting Blade says:
"Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature. You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
(...)
At Warlock 6 (character level 12 - so he gets a feat or ability score increase too) he switches that Devil's Sign innovation again, this time to LifeDrinker. That invocation says,
"Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of the Blade feature When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)."
This doesn't make your build impossible, but you'll have to hold off until level 18 (bard 6 / warlock 12) before you get the full effects listed.
Oh boy, that makes finding a way to get Shillelagh for fewer than 6 levels of bard even more important. Thanks for pointing that out I had not seen that.
if you're looking in UA, why not use hexblade? they use Cha to attack at level 1, you don't even need a multiclass.
Honestly, probably the best option. Grab a Quarterstaff and wield it two-handed anyway (the only restriction on Hexblade's free "Cha as attack/damage" is that it can't have the Two-handed property, and QStaff is Versatile, or wield it 1-handed with shield because PAM). Then just follow the rest of the Bladelock plan. You get it much, much sooner than multiclassing and the same(?) damage.
That's a great idea I will check it out, thanks guys. [Edit - It does appear to be perfect, with no multiclassing or feats, allowing for the full build to activate at 12th level]
Go three levels into fighter (you need a decent dex anyways), eldtritch knight. Tomelock gets a cha Shillelagh, a summonable weapon from EK, and action surge. Maybe 5 for extra attack or take polearm mastery after the 3 level dip. Reflavor as needed.
Or go Hexblade like Ghotistyx said if your table allows UA and reflavor however you want.
In your study of occult lore, you have unearthed eldritch invocations, fragments of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability.
At 2nd level, you gain two eldritch invocations of your choice. Your invocation options are detailed at the end of the class description. When you gain certain warlock levels, you gain additional invocations of your choice, as shown in the Invocations Known column of the Warlock table.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level.
If an eldritch invocation has prerequisites, you must meet them to learn it. You can learn the invocation at the same time that you meet its prerequisites. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.
Seeing that this thread has been dug up yet again. Let me give everybody a simple answer. Your Answer is Hexblade Warlock. It gets you essentially the same effect at level 1 as this person was trying to get in 12 to 14 levels. You use your Charisma for level 1 and you it's pre-ready to build Pact of the Blade on top of it along with all of it's invocations. On top of Life Drinker at level 12 and Thirsting Blade at level 5 in your class. You can also add Improved Pact Weapon to further expand shenanigans. Such as all of the above on a ranged weapon to combine with things like Sharpshooter.
I am considering using shillelagh with a bladelock. But I can't find a good way to get shillelagh to be a Charisma spell. Best way I can think of is a Bard 6, but that's a substantial investment in Bard. I thought maybe Favored Soul (Nature Domain) could do it, but they only get the spells from the Nature Domain, not the Nature ability that includes the shillelagh cantrip. Of course I could pick it up pretty easy with Wisdom, by choosing Druid 1 or Cleric (Nature) 1 or the Feat. Which might be worth it. But, that comes with some MAD issues, maintaining both Charisma and Wisdom. I am hoping for a way to focus on primarily Charisma with this.
Anyone have any ideas? Is there maybe a UA or a tidbit in a book that I've missed?
The best answer I can give you is: STOP. Please allow me to elaborate
Shillelagh doesn't become available to the warlock until level 3 where you have a choice between Blade, Chain, or Tome. Choose Tome and you can get the cantrip, but you're no longer a Bladelock by definition. Let's make this even simpler - you shouldn't need to use shillelagh, like, ever. Your pact weapon is made of magic and can be any weapon, and you're automatically proficient with it so why pick something you would need to cast shillelagh on? I mean, you could pick a great axe for 1d12 or a great sword for 2d6 which far surpasses the 1d8 limit set by the spell. Didn't make strength your strong suit? Use a dex based weapon like a rapier! That will keep you at 1d8 for damage, but you could still be useful in a melee skirmish.
I'm curious as to your thought process, but as of now I'm assuming you want to pump up the charisma stat for Eldritch Blast and still be effective as a close range combatant. Forget Eldritch blast for now - you're a Bladelock, close quarter combat is what you do! For the early levels, pick Devil's Sight invocation and Darkness as a second level spell and pump up your attack stat. Pick the Lifedrinker invocation at level 12 and you get to add your str/dex stat AND your charisma to the damage roll. By the time you get here you should have a 20 str (or dex) and a 18 cha (bump this up next!) for a grand total of 9 damage per hit as your bonus!. At this point, you have an idea of where you fit into the battlefield, and if you pumped dex - a pretty decent AC! At level 16, max out cha and it's +10/hit.
Or do whatever it is YOU have planned, but it's gonna cost you a 1 level dip to multiclass Druid. You'd get the cantrip, but you'd have to spread your resources pretty thin to get good enough numbers in that many attributes.
Also, in the wording of the Shillelagh spell, specifically "the wood of the club/quarterstaff"... your pact weapon is made of magic, not wood. Ask your DM for a ruling, but to me that says it wouldn't work on your pact blade.
I'm currently having a lot fun playing a Bladelock, I hope this helps YOU have fun too!
Blyster, thanks for your reply. To answer your questions:
1) Shillelagh can become available at level 1, if I take a feat or class at level 1 that has it. My intent is to get it through a second class because there is no way to get it as a charisma-based spell while also remaining a single-classed Blade Pact Warlock that I know of;
2) Shillelagh is a great spell because it ADDS YOUR SPELLCASTING STAT to the damage done with the weapon, and also uses your spellcasting stat to determine your attack bonus with it. And it is cast on any existing club or quarterstaff, even one which is also your pact weapon (your pact weapon takes the form of any normal existing weapon on the normal weapon list, like a club or quarterstaff, and you can also make any magic weapon your pact weapon), and also makes that club or quarterstaff into a d8 weapon like a longsword, so you can use a shield in the other hand just like a longsword;
3) Lifedrinker adds your Charisma score as a bonus necromantic damage, which is IN ADDITION TO the charisma damage added already from Shillelagh (because Lifedrinker isn't actually adding your Charisma score as bonus damage directly, it's just using it to calculate the amount of a different kind of additional damage - neccromantic). This means with Shillelagh and Lifedrinker, you effectively add your Charisma score twice to each hit with the Shillelagh. So a 20 Charisma would be 1d8 +5 (Chr) +5 (necromantic) each hit, without having to worry about any other stat. Of course, with Thristing Blade, this means you're attacking twice each time you use the attack action (so now, if you hit both times using your Charisma modifier for the attack bonus, you do 2d8+10 (chr) +10 (necromantic)). And possibly three times with your bonus action, with things like Polearm Master (which includes a quarterstaff), though that second end damage will use a d4+10 instead of a d8+10 (according to Jeremy Crawford). Which could mean, if the attacks all hit, you can do 2d8+1d4+15 (chr) + 15 (necromantic) in a round (average 41.5 damage) all without focusing on any stat other than Charisma, and without using any limited resources to do it (as a cantrip and always-on things like a feat and invocations).
Anyway, the bottom line is I am trying to find a way to get Shillelagh as a charisma-powered spell, and right now I can only find one way to do that - Bard 6. All the other methods make it a Wisdom-powered spell (such as the feat, or Druid 1, or Cleric 1 (Nature)), which is not what I am looking for as, if I were going to go for a second stat to power this, I could instead just use Strength or Dexterity with any appropriate weapon as you mentioned and forgo Shillelagh entirely.
It may not be worth it, as you say. But, first I'd like to find out if there is a way to do it with fewer levels than 6 bard levels, and then I can figure out if it's worth it or not.
My view was that Shillelagh was the Tomelocks answer to the Bladelock, as when it is taken at the 3rd Warlock level as one of the cantrips in your warlocks book of shadows. The Tomelock uses charisma, whereas if a Bladelock took Magic Initiate Druid to gain Shillelagh as a cantrip, they would have to use Wisdom for their Druid spells.
Seriously a Bladelock should only consider this if they are prepared to accept that they need to advance Wis as well as Str/Dex and Cha. Which is a vital attribute anyway, perception checks, survival and the routine wisdom saves. I would check out the new invocations which may be up your street or even look at creating a homebrew one like the one below, which I just put together.
Branch of Relkath of the Infinite Branches (Prerequisite 3rd Level and Archfey Pact)
You can cast Shillelagh at Will, without expending a spell slot and the only material component you need is a wooden staff or club. (The staff or club is not consumed by the spell and Shillelagh uses Charisma as its spellcasting stat.
(I had contemplated having the prerequisite as 5th level) Relkath is an Archfey Treant, I might work at creating an Invocation for Tree Stride).
Go read shillelagh again. Read as written, and I quote, "you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls". One more time, that reads instead of, not in addition to. If your DM is allowing you to use BOTH your strength AND your spellcasting ability (the spell doesn't specify which ability, BTW) you are playing with an extremely lenient DM, and you're definitely not in league play.
And where do you get adding the full ability score (I'm assuming that's where you're getting your 15 in your reply) versus adding the modifier (for 15 would be a +2) as laid out in the PHB and elsewhere? Even with a maxed out cha and str OR (not and, that's not how it works) dex, with Lifedrinker you'd only add a max of 10!
The way the spell is worded, allowing you to add BOTH is pretty sketchy and I wouldn't let that fly as a DM. If yours does (more power to you), the spell doesn't require your spellcasting stat be wisdom in the first place! Abuse it!
"At 6th level, you learn two spells of your choice from any class. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip. The chosen spells count as bard spells for you but don't count against the number of bard spells you know." With this ability you choose the cantrip Shillelagh.
Shillelagh says:
"The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature’s power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon, and the weapon's damage die becomes a d8. The weapon also becomes magical, if it isn’t already. The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go of the weapon."
So this bard with the quarterstaff casts Shillelagh on it. It's now a d8 quarterstaff, which uses your spellcasting ability instead of strength for the attack and damage rolls. Since you're a bard, and it's a bard spell for you, that means it uses your Charisma for the attack and damage rolls instead of strength.
So with you 20 Charisma, this bard has a +5 attack bonus to attack with the Shillelagh (because of their Charisma bonus), and it does 1d8 damage, +5 (because of their Charisma bonus). That's it. You don't add strength or anything else, it's just +5 to attack, 1d8+5 damage.
Clear so far?
OK, now our 6th level bard decides to switch to Warlock from here on out. Charisma is also the spellcasting ability for Warlock spells and abilities. So 7th level is the first Warlock level. He picks up the usual Eldritch Blast for one of his cantrips.
At 2nd Warlock level (8th level for this character) he gets two invocations. He chooses Agonizing Blast and Devil's Sight (or whatever - it will change later). He also chooses a feat, and takes Polearm Master. That feat says,
"When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, or quarterstaff, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. This attack is uses the same ability modifer as the primary weapon. The weapon’s damage die for this attack is a d4, and the attack deals bludgeoning damage. [Errata states: The bonus attack uses the same ability modifier as the main attack.] While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter the reach you have with that weapon."
So now our Bard 6/Warlock 2 attacks with his Shillelagh Quarterstaff same as before, which is +5 to attack, and 1d8+5 damage, but then he also gets a second attack as a bonus action which again attacks at a +5 attack and does 1d4+5 damage (and if you need clarity on why that works, see the link I posted above Crawford where he ruled this works fine).
At 3rd Warlock level (which is 9th level for this character) he chooses Pact of the Blade. That ability says,
"You can use your action to create a pact weapon in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it. You are proficient with it while you wield it. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. Your pact weapon disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature again, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or if you die. You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way. The weapon ceases being your pact weapon if you die, if you perform the 1-hour ritual on a different weapon, or if you use a 1-hour ritual to break your bond to it. The weapon appears at your feet if it is in the extradimensional space when the bond breaks."
The form you choose is a quarterstaff. Or, if you prefer, you can perform the ritual on a magical quarterstaff. Either way, you will be casting Shillelagh on it.
In addition, at this same level, he decides to switch one of his invocations. He can do this because the Warlock class says, "Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level." So he switches one of his invocations, Devil's Sight, to be Thirsting Blade instead.
Thirsting Blade says:
"Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature. You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
OK, so now our Bard 6/Warlock 3 can attack once with his Shillelagh Quarterstaff same as before, which is +5 to attack, and 1d8+5 damage, gets a second attack from Thirsting Blade which is again +5 to attack and 1d8+5 damage, and then he gets a third attack as a bonus action from Polearm Master which again attacks at a +5 attack and does 1d4+5 damage.
At Warlock 5 (character level 11) the character gets another new Invocation. He chooses Devil's Sight again (or whatever, it doesn't matter as he will be switching it again soon).
At Warlock 6 (character level 12 - so he gets a feat or ability score increase too) he switches that Devil's Sign innovation again, this time to LifeDrinker. That invocation says,
"Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of the Blade feature When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)."
OK, so now our Bard 6/Warlock 6 can attack once with his Shillelagh Quarterstaff same as before, which is +5 to attack, and 1d8+5 damage, but now he also does necrotic damage equal to his Charisma modifier, which in this case is +5. So it now is +5 Attack, 1d8+5+5, or a total of 1d8+10 (half of that +10 is necrotic).
He now gets a second attack from Thirsting Blade which is again +5 to attack and 1d8+5 damage and +5 necrotic, or a total of 1d8+10 (half of that +10 is necrotic).
And finally, he gets a third attack as a bonus action from Polearm Master which again attacks at a +5 attack and does 1d4+5 damage and +5 necrotic, or a total of 1d4+10 (half of that +10 is necrotic).
So assuming all three attacks are against one creature and they all hit (but are not criticals), we can express it as 2d8+20 (the first two attacks) +1d4+10 (the bonus action attack).
We can assign averages to this. 2d8 averages 9 damage, and 1d4 averages 2.5 damage, so we can say it's an average of 9+20+2.5+10 = 41.5 average damage, if all three attacks hit and none of them are critical hits.
So there you have it, that's how I got to those numbers. It's not ever using Strength or any other ability other than Charisma, and it's only ever using your Charisma modifier not your total Charisma ability score. I feel confident, given discussions on other message boards over the last two years and rulings from Wizards of the Coast, that this works fine.
Now we reach my initial question and reason for starting this thread. Is there a way to get that Shillelagh cantrip, using Charisma as the casting stat for Shillelagh, earlier than Bard 6? Is there some Unearthed Arcana article or some class or feat or magic item or anything in any of the articles or adventures or other books that I have missed that would allow a character to get Shillelagh with a Charisma casting ability any time earlier than Bard 6?
Its easy to get it as a Druid 1, or a Cleric (Nature) 1, or with the Magic Initiate (Druid) feat. But all of those assign Wisdom as the spellcasting ability for the cantrip, and that's no good because the entire goal here is to keep it all Charisma-based so you don't need to focus on two ability scores. The only way I know of, right now, to get Shillelagh using Charisma as the casting stat is Bard 6.
This clearer now? Any questions?
The only way for a Warlock to cast Shillelagh using Charisma as their spellcasting ability is either have Pact of the Tome choosing Shillelagh as one of the three cantrips (Warlock 3rd level) or have 6 Bardic levels or use a Homebrew Eldritch Invocation or DM home ruling.
So if you want to be a Warlock with a pact blade, who wants access to Shillelagh then the options you have:
Use Wisdom
Take Magic Initiate (Druid) Feat, or one level in Druid or Cleric (Nature)
Use Charisma
Take 6 levels in Bard for Magic Secrets, or retcon your character and lose Blade Pact and gain Tome Pact, or use a Homebrew Feat or Invocation (DM home rule)
Ultimately this is a game, the rules are there for balance and to ensure the fun of everyone at the table. Another thing I would suggest is for the DM to just go with it, allow you to try either Magic Initiate Feat (Variant Human or an Ability Score Improvement) or taking a level of Cleric (Nature) or Druid and that the spells you gain use Charisma instead of Wisdom. Let the DM and the party try this, if its broken the party and the DM will obviously let you know. NB other Cleric/Druid features will still use Wisdom, because otherwise we could easily be creating supermunckins with min/max who dip into many classes quite simply to powergame. But if a player wants something for his story that is cool then its definitely possible to work with it.
With further reflection, your character is a warlock and has taken the Pact of the Blade, what does it cost you? What does your Patron want you to sacrifice? Maybe you are not permitted to use Eldritch Blast (warlocks ranged bread and butter) as your Patron prefers you to be up close and personal. To grant you the ability to use Cleric or Druid spells as Warlock ones which use charisma, then its only fair for you to lose something in exchange. Remember there is always a price for power. Often the cost appears cheap, but its in the details that the true cost is revealed.
So my take for the Blade Pact Warlock who wants to cast shillelagh with Charisma instead of Wisdom, its going to cost you something in return. Perhaps its a long term thing such as you either can't cast Eldritch Blast, or you lose an Ability Score Improvement or you cannot take any further Feats (but you get all future Ability Score Improvements). If I was your DM, then I would also offer you a homebrew invocation or feat or magic item as options.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/764151048185352192
This doesn't make your build impossible, but you'll have to hold off until level 18 (bard 6 / warlock 12) before you get the full effects listed.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
if you're looking in UA, why not use hexblade? they use Cha to attack at level 1, you don't even need a multiclass.
That's a great idea I will check it out, thanks guys. [Edit - It does appear to be perfect, with no multiclassing or feats, allowing for the full build to activate at 12th level]
Go three levels into fighter (you need a decent dex anyways), eldtritch knight. Tomelock gets a cha Shillelagh, a summonable weapon from EK, and action surge. Maybe 5 for extra attack or take polearm mastery after the 3 level dip. Reflavor as needed.
Or go Hexblade like Ghotistyx said if your table allows UA and reflavor however you want.
Sorry to resurrect an old thread...
1 Level Sorcerer with Giant Soul (UA) Hill Giant Origin. (Gives you your cantrip with Charisma Based Casting.)
Then switch your career to Warlock and you can take Pact of the Blade to buff up your Quarterstaff.
pact of the tombe, have ya heard of it?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
People, this thread is 2 years old, I don't think the guy is still seeking help for his build.
Relux, my reply was mainly for others seeking the same answer. I found that thread because I was google searching the topic.
Yes, I have read a thing or two about pact of the tomb ArtificeMeal. The Con saving throw for Sorcerer would also make the 1 lvl dip a good option.
The above option is if you still want to go pact of blade and get the cantrip as a Charisma based casting.
Eldritch Invocations
In your study of occult lore, you have unearthed eldritch invocations, fragments of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability.
At 2nd level, you gain two eldritch invocations of your choice. Your invocation options are detailed at the end of the class description. When you gain certain warlock levels, you gain additional invocations of your choice, as shown in the Invocations Known column of the Warlock table.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level.
If an eldritch invocation has prerequisites, you must meet them to learn it. You can learn the invocation at the same time that you meet its prerequisites. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.
Seeing that this thread has been dug up yet again. Let me give everybody a simple answer. Your Answer is Hexblade Warlock. It gets you essentially the same effect at level 1 as this person was trying to get in 12 to 14 levels. You use your Charisma for level 1 and you it's pre-ready to build Pact of the Blade on top of it along with all of it's invocations. On top of Life Drinker at level 12 and Thirsting Blade at level 5 in your class. You can also add Improved Pact Weapon to further expand shenanigans. Such as all of the above on a ranged weapon to combine with things like Sharpshooter.
Considdering the reweork to Warlock in 2024 its REALY EASY now and will be used by my next char.