I've been looking at different builds with multi-classing, feats, archetypes, etc for a wizard to be a tank, granted I'm aware that they only receive a 1d6 for hit die. But I enjoy the idea of a wizard being more brawny or not afraid to run away just because the mobs got within 30 feet of them. One that I've looked at recently was a Githyanki wizard with the heavily armored feat.
I was wondering what other peoples thoughts on this were and what were some of your builds you found fun?
Hobgoblin + Moderately Armored is better than Githyanki + Heavily Armored with the new stat rules from Tasha's. Heavily armored doesn't give proficiency with shields while moderately armored does. +1 dex is also much more useful than +1 strength. Dwarf is really nice because it doesn't cost a feat, but they also lack shield proficiency.
Honestly Tasha's made this pretty easy thanks to those optional stat changes. Any race with natural AC is a solid choice, with Tortle probably being the best.
If you're open to dips then 1 level of Cleric (or 2 depending on domain) is a tried and true method for wizards to pick up armor and shields while also diversifying their spell suite into the divine.
Abjuration is the closest to a "tank" school. For abjuration wizards it is now very easy to pick up a "ward battery" by taking Eldritch Adept for the Mage Armor Invocation (can't remember the name). Free to cast, you can use it to charge up your ward to full HP between battles without using spell slots. It also solves the mage armor tax for non armored wizards. Find a way to get Armor of Agathys and you have a very punishing melee caster capable of dealing good passive damage while it absorbs hits.
This has got me thinking about making a conquest paladin/ abjuration wizard build work. A play on the sorcadin that looks to execute the Ward + AoA combo.
The “Mark of Warding” Dwarf gets a bonus to intelligence; as well as access to the “Armor of Agathys” spell (VERY good for a Wizard...particularly an Abjuration Wizard).
However, for a more traditional build...the Mountain Dwarf race goes well with Wizard for their proficiency with light & medium armor (and optional Intelligence boost, with “Tasha’s Cauldron”).
Hill Dwarves also get a bonus to their hit points every levels (not to be ignored)...but as such, dwarves are not to be ignored for a “sturdy” Wizard build.
Likewise, consider the half-orc race...their ability to shrug off life-threatening wounds once per rest is not to be underestimated for a “tank” Wizard build...and people like orcish wizards.
Let me tell you how excited I was when I first found that combo. Plus, svirfneblin. I don't need a reason to get excited about that.
Mechanically I think vhuman has it beat now though. You can start with your ward battery at level 1 (and start with decent armor). It will never match the majesty of the mighty svirf, but mechanics are callous things.
Bladesinger with Warcaster and Booming Blade is where my money is. Bladesingers get great AC by default, and Warcaster lets you punish people for trying to ignore you.
Of course, I'm also biased that I want someone called a tank to be able to actually act like a tank, and not just add AC.
Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer is the best tank Wizard you can get. And you don’t even need to go through Eldritch Adept or multiclass. You can conjure and later replenish your Arcane Ward by carefully estimating damage taken and casting your Abjuration spells.
At level 5, get your Armor of Agathys upcasted and go melee. Take some hits, kill some mooks and then simply refresh your Ward with Shield or something. Then just drop a killer control spell (I love Slow) and save the day.
vHuman Bladesinger with Tough feat dumping INT can be quite tanky as well.
I’ve made a conjuration wizard whose main stat is constitution. Trying to decide between hill dwarf for mor hp or mountain dwarf for armor. But once I reach level 10, I can be a punching bag while my summoned critters do the heavy lifting.
Bladesinger with Warcaster and Booming Blade is where my money is. Bladesingers get great AC by default, and Warcaster lets you punish people for trying to ignore you.
Of course, I'm also biased that I want someone called a tank to be able to actually act like a tank, and not just add AC.
Any wizard can warcaster-booming blade. Not a bladesinger exclusive.
But really, you don't need to build a mechanic into a wizard to punish people for ignoring you. You're a wizard. People are punished when they ignore you by default because that means you're concentrating on encounter-bending spells unfettered. Those sorts of punisher mechanics are necessary on melee tanks that cannot control enemies from range.
Bladesinger with Warcaster and Booming Blade is where my money is. Bladesingers get great AC by default, and Warcaster lets you punish people for trying to ignore you.
Of course, I'm also biased that I want someone called a tank to be able to actually act like a tank, and not just add AC.
Any wizard can warcaster-booming blade. Not a bladesinger exclusive.
But really, you don't need to build a mechanic into a wizard to punish people for ignoring you. You're a wizard. People are punished when they ignore you by default because that means you're concentrating on encounter-bending spells unfettered. Those sorts of punisher mechanics are necessary on melee tanks that cannot control enemies from range.
With the reprinting in Tasha's, Bladesingers can now replace one of their two attacks from the Attack Action (Extra Attack) with a casting of a cantrip.
That isn't what Mephista was referring to. They specifically called out warcaster + booming blade.
And again, I'll reiterate: wizards don't need punisher mechanics. They have hold person/hypnotic pattern/etc. Any number of options to shut enemies down and punish those still fighting for not forcing concentration saves.
The best tank wizard is the War Mage, with Tenser’s. I prefer Hobgoblin myself. Then just punch for Heavily Armored, Warcaster and Polearm Master. You don’t even need intelligence. You’ll do 90+ damage each and every round without fail and have so many resistances and high AC you won’t worry about getting attacked. You can melt almost anything in a few rounds at most.
I played this one in Adventures League (which I’m not a fan of for this reason tbh), and you can do most of any campaign as a speed run.
That isn't what Mephista was referring to. They specifically called out warcaster + booming blade.
And again, I'll reiterate: wizards don't need punisher mechanics. They have hold person/hypnotic pattern/etc. Any number of options to shut enemies down and punish those still fighting for not forcing concentration saves.
That was by no means the primary point, but have another quick read and you’ll see that the first word in that post is “Bladesinger”, so they’re referring specifically to a Bladesinger with Warcaster & melee cantrips.
You will find then it’s highly relevant to point out this particular choice to take melee cantrips with a Bladesinger, beyond warcaster & opportunity attacks, has a unique benefit beyond what “any wizard” can do.
Bladesinger with Warcaster and Booming Blade is where my money is. Bladesingers get great AC by default, and Warcaster lets you punish people for trying to ignore you.
Of course, I'm also biased that I want someone called a tank to be able to actually act like a tank, and not just add AC.
Bolded for relevance. This is what I was responding to originally. I pointed out that any spellcaster could make use of warcaster in this way. That is all. I never claimed it wasn't relevant that a bladesinger has cantrip extra attack, but that was not part of Mephista's post, and was not what I was responding to.
I never made a claim that the bladesinger doesn't have any unique qualities to bring to the tanking game. All I said was that any spellcaster can use warcaster in the same way.
Maybe you need to reread the posts because you are inferring things that were never said. I don't know why you're so intent on picking this apart but at least understand what you're reading first.
Brewsky did you go moderately armored and then heavily armored? My instinct would have been to stop at medium but that's cool. What level would you pick that up?
Bladesinger with Warcaster and Booming Blade is where my money is. Bladesingers get great AC by default, and Warcaster lets you punish people for trying to ignore you.
Of course, I'm also biased that I want someone called a tank to be able to actually act like a tank, and not just add AC.
Any wizard can warcaster-booming blade. Not a bladesinger exclusive.
But really, you don't need to build a mechanic into a wizard to punish people for ignoring you. You're a wizard. People are punished when they ignore you by default because that means you're concentrating on encounter-bending spells unfettered. Those sorts of punisher mechanics are necessary on melee tanks that cannot control enemies from range.
With the reprinting in Tasha's, Bladesingers can now replace one of their two attacks from the Attack Action (Extra Attack) with a casting of a cantrip.
That isn't what Mephista was referring to. They specifically called out warcaster + booming blade.
And again, I'll reiterate: wizards don't need punisher mechanics. They have hold person/hypnotic pattern/etc. Any number of options to shut enemies down and punish those still fighting for not forcing concentration saves.
Bladesinger with Warcaster and Booming Blade is where my money is. Bladesingers get great AC by default, and Warcaster lets you punish people for trying to ignore you.
Of course, I'm also biased that I want someone called a tank to be able to actually act like a tank, and not just add AC.
Bolded for relevance. This is what I was responding to originally. I pointed out that any spellcaster could make use of warcaster in this way. That is all. I never claimed it wasn't relevant that a bladesinger has cantrip extra attack, but that was not part of Mephista's post, and was not what I was responding to.
I never made a claim that the bladesinger doesn't have any unique qualities to bring to the tanking game. All I said was that any spellcaster can use warcaster in the same way.
Maybe you need to reread the posts because you are inferring things that were never said. I don't know why you're so intent on picking this apart but at least understand what you're reading first.
Brewsky did you go moderately armored and then heavily armored? My instinct would have been to stop at medium but that's cool. What level would you pick that up?
Lol what did I just stumble upon? HZ, your initial response is a misreading of Mephista. They like Bladesinger for the AC; and they like Warcaster for the cantrip reaction _and_ of the melee cantrips they like Booming Blade the best. Your quip about war caster being available to all wizards is moot since it's clear to the reader that the build is Bladesinger (for AC) and Warcaster (for reaction spell and the cult of the booming blade). I think the "ignored" part is more how a combatant will move past a wizard in a turn figuring there's nothing tactically the wizard can do during the pass by. Mongolian_dude's inference that your comment was literally half off was correct, and your inference of Mephista's stated build inference I guess was the result of a quick reading and not properly parsing the sentence structure. The subsequent posts I guess are what happens when you get triggered and don't recognize the mistake being identified. This isn't really picking apart, it's providing clarity.
That said, I think hobgoblin spell casters are cool too.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Your quip about war caster being available to all wizards is moot since it's clear to the reader that the build is Bladesinger (for AC) and Warcaster (for reaction spell and the cult of the booming blade).
Thanks for proving my point though. If it's so clear that Mephista's post is bladesinger is for AC and Warcaster is for reactions with booming blade then how is it moot to bring up every wizard can warcaster-booming blade again?
And I'll repeat. I was not ignoring any part of what the Bladesinger brings to the table. I pointed out that other wizards could use warcaster in the same way, to punish people that want to ignore you. Which is a factually true statement.
Appreciate you trying to jump down my throat, but you undid yourself there.
Generally speaking I am not a fan of wizards trying to "tank". Gish, certainly, but not tank. No matter how high you get your AC with a wizard, you're going to take hits, and your d6 HD will not support that for long. I also generally think that heavy armor is overrated for a wide variety of reasons. There are certainly times when heavy armor is the right armor to reach for, but not on a wizard trying to tank imo.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I feel like a Wizard, when in investing in features that let them “bulk up” (mostly Abjuration, Bladesinger & relevant feats), should only be considered a skirmisher at best, rather than a tank.
I must agree with the above...a gish might be able to tangle inside melee range for a round or two...but after a bit, they should prioritize getting OUT after they smack a fool or two.
Critical hits should be feared; and area-of-effect attacks still may leave such a Wizard vulnerable.
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I've been looking at different builds with multi-classing, feats, archetypes, etc for a wizard to be a tank, granted I'm aware that they only receive a 1d6 for hit die. But I enjoy the idea of a wizard being more brawny or not afraid to run away just because the mobs got within 30 feet of them. One that I've looked at recently was a Githyanki wizard with the heavily armored feat.
I was wondering what other peoples thoughts on this were and what were some of your builds you found fun?
I’d go School of Abjuration for the Arcane Ward and I’d either take a feat or multiclass to get Armor of Agathys.
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there's also the dwarf wizard route, one gives bonus health and the other gives better armor/weapons.
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Hobgoblin + Moderately Armored is better than Githyanki + Heavily Armored with the new stat rules from Tasha's. Heavily armored doesn't give proficiency with shields while moderately armored does. +1 dex is also much more useful than +1 strength. Dwarf is really nice because it doesn't cost a feat, but they also lack shield proficiency.
Honestly Tasha's made this pretty easy thanks to those optional stat changes. Any race with natural AC is a solid choice, with Tortle probably being the best.
If you're open to dips then 1 level of Cleric (or 2 depending on domain) is a tried and true method for wizards to pick up armor and shields while also diversifying their spell suite into the divine.
Abjuration is the closest to a "tank" school. For abjuration wizards it is now very easy to pick up a "ward battery" by taking Eldritch Adept for the Mage Armor Invocation (can't remember the name). Free to cast, you can use it to charge up your ward to full HP between battles without using spell slots. It also solves the mage armor tax for non armored wizards. Find a way to get Armor of Agathys and you have a very punishing melee caster capable of dealing good passive damage while it absorbs hits.
This has got me thinking about making a conquest paladin/ abjuration wizard build work. A play on the sorcadin that looks to execute the Ward + AoA combo.
Aye.
The “Mark of Warding” Dwarf gets a bonus to intelligence; as well as access to the “Armor of Agathys” spell (VERY good for a Wizard...particularly an Abjuration Wizard).
However, for a more traditional build...the Mountain Dwarf race goes well with Wizard for their proficiency with light & medium armor (and optional Intelligence boost, with “Tasha’s Cauldron”).
Hill Dwarves also get a bonus to their hit points every levels (not to be ignored)...but as such, dwarves are not to be ignored for a “sturdy” Wizard build.
Likewise, consider the half-orc race...their ability to shrug off life-threatening wounds once per rest is not to be underestimated for a “tank” Wizard build...and people like orcish wizards.
okay, but lets not forget about the svirfneblin with their racial feat that gives them basically a perm ward as a abjuration wizard.
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To see my more recent homebrew creations, please check out my content on Hombrewery.
ah good ol' svirfneblin.
Let me tell you how excited I was when I first found that combo. Plus, svirfneblin. I don't need a reason to get excited about that.
Mechanically I think vhuman has it beat now though. You can start with your ward battery at level 1 (and start with decent armor). It will never match the majesty of the mighty svirf, but mechanics are callous things.
Bladesinger with Warcaster and Booming Blade is where my money is. Bladesingers get great AC by default, and Warcaster lets you punish people for trying to ignore you.
Of course, I'm also biased that I want someone called a tank to be able to actually act like a tank, and not just add AC.
Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer is the best tank Wizard you can get. And you don’t even need to go through Eldritch Adept or multiclass. You can conjure and later replenish your Arcane Ward by carefully estimating damage taken and casting your Abjuration spells.
At level 5, get your Armor of Agathys upcasted and go melee. Take some hits, kill some mooks and then simply refresh your Ward with Shield or something. Then just drop a killer control spell (I love Slow) and save the day.
vHuman Bladesinger with Tough feat dumping INT can be quite tanky as well.
I’ve made a conjuration wizard whose main stat is constitution. Trying to decide between hill dwarf for mor hp or mountain dwarf for armor. But once I reach level 10, I can be a punching bag while my summoned critters do the heavy lifting.
Any wizard can warcaster-booming blade. Not a bladesinger exclusive.
But really, you don't need to build a mechanic into a wizard to punish people for ignoring you. You're a wizard. People are punished when they ignore you by default because that means you're concentrating on encounter-bending spells unfettered. Those sorts of punisher mechanics are necessary on melee tanks that cannot control enemies from range.
With the reprinting in Tasha's, Bladesingers can now replace one of their two attacks from the Attack Action (Extra Attack) with a casting of a cantrip.
That isn't what Mephista was referring to. They specifically called out warcaster + booming blade.
And again, I'll reiterate: wizards don't need punisher mechanics. They have hold person/hypnotic pattern/etc. Any number of options to shut enemies down and punish those still fighting for not forcing concentration saves.
The best tank wizard is the War Mage, with Tenser’s. I prefer Hobgoblin myself. Then just punch for Heavily Armored, Warcaster and Polearm Master. You don’t even need intelligence. You’ll do 90+ damage each and every round without fail and have so many resistances and high AC you won’t worry about getting attacked. You can melt almost anything in a few rounds at most.
I played this one in Adventures League (which I’m not a fan of for this reason tbh), and you can do most of any campaign as a speed run.
That was by no means the primary point, but have another quick read and you’ll see that the first word in that post is “Bladesinger”, so they’re referring specifically to a Bladesinger with Warcaster & melee cantrips.
You will find then it’s highly relevant to point out this particular choice to take melee cantrips with a Bladesinger, beyond warcaster & opportunity attacks, has a unique benefit beyond what “any wizard” can do.
Bolded for relevance. This is what I was responding to originally. I pointed out that any spellcaster could make use of warcaster in this way. That is all. I never claimed it wasn't relevant that a bladesinger has cantrip extra attack, but that was not part of Mephista's post, and was not what I was responding to.
I never made a claim that the bladesinger doesn't have any unique qualities to bring to the tanking game. All I said was that any spellcaster can use warcaster in the same way.
Maybe you need to reread the posts because you are inferring things that were never said. I don't know why you're so intent on picking this apart but at least understand what you're reading first.
Brewsky did you go moderately armored and then heavily armored? My instinct would have been to stop at medium but that's cool. What level would you pick that up?
Lol what did I just stumble upon? HZ, your initial response is a misreading of Mephista. They like Bladesinger for the AC; and they like Warcaster for the cantrip reaction _and_ of the melee cantrips they like Booming Blade the best. Your quip about war caster being available to all wizards is moot since it's clear to the reader that the build is Bladesinger (for AC) and Warcaster (for reaction spell and the cult of the booming blade). I think the "ignored" part is more how a combatant will move past a wizard in a turn figuring there's nothing tactically the wizard can do during the pass by. Mongolian_dude's inference that your comment was literally half off was correct, and your inference of Mephista's stated build inference I guess was the result of a quick reading and not properly parsing the sentence structure. The subsequent posts I guess are what happens when you get triggered and don't recognize the mistake being identified. This isn't really picking apart, it's providing clarity.
That said, I think hobgoblin spell casters are cool too.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
You must have felt so good typing that out.
Thanks for proving my point though. If it's so clear that Mephista's post is bladesinger is for AC and Warcaster is for reactions with booming blade then how is it moot to bring up every wizard can warcaster-booming blade again?
And I'll repeat. I was not ignoring any part of what the Bladesinger brings to the table. I pointed out that other wizards could use warcaster in the same way, to punish people that want to ignore you. Which is a factually true statement.
Appreciate you trying to jump down my throat, but you undid yourself there.
Generally speaking I am not a fan of wizards trying to "tank". Gish, certainly, but not tank. No matter how high you get your AC with a wizard, you're going to take hits, and your d6 HD will not support that for long. I also generally think that heavy armor is overrated for a wide variety of reasons. There are certainly times when heavy armor is the right armor to reach for, but not on a wizard trying to tank imo.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I feel like a Wizard, when in investing in features that let them “bulk up” (mostly Abjuration, Bladesinger & relevant feats), should only be considered a skirmisher at best, rather than a tank.
I must agree with the above...a gish might be able to tangle inside melee range for a round or two...but after a bit, they should prioritize getting OUT after they smack a fool or two.
Critical hits should be feared; and area-of-effect attacks still may leave such a Wizard vulnerable.