Today I thought about what limited use intelligence has in 5e Mechanically, and the weird nature of the one class named after wisdom using it as their main modifier. 

So what if intelligence is dropped from the game and swapped out with wisdom? Would there be that much lost or unbalanced? 

You've made a cleric, basically. And the whole studying spellcraft / scribing spells / spellbook thing would have to go (as such things fall under realm of intelligence not wisdom). 

Seems utterly pointless.

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

You've made a cleric, basically. And the whole studying spellcraft / scribing spells / spellbook thing would have to go (as such things fall under realm of intelligence not wisdom). 

Seems utterly pointless.

 If wisdom replaces intelligence, Wizards would just use wisdom to determine spellcraft, scribing spells, spells known, etc. It can use Wisdom as its stat without the mechanic changing.

And it would just be different kinds of wisdom (practical knowledge vs book learning) the same way there are different kinds of Charisma (a charming/magnetic personality vs clever deceitfulness)

Quote from Kronzypantz >>

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

You've made a cleric, basically. And the whole studying spellcraft / scribing spells / spellbook thing would have to go (as such things fall under realm of intelligence not wisdom). 

Seems utterly pointless.

 If wisdom replaces intelligence, Wizards would just use wisdom to determine spellcraft, scribing spells, spells known, etc. It can use Wisdom as its stat without the mechanic changing.

And it would just be different kinds of wisdom (practical knowledge vs book learning) the same way there are different kinds of Charisma (a charming/magnetic personality vs clever deceitfulness)

The game opts to split "book learning" into INT and experiential and/or intuitive no-how into WIS.  Your way makes WIS a superstat getting close to DEX (I'm not in the DEX hating camp but a lot of folks do complain about that stats broader in play implications than other stats).  INT stats would be more interesting, and are more interesting, if you deviate from the RAW success/fail binary of skill checks and allow for degrees of success sort of like the way more investigative games like CoC do.  

Now if you moved a Sorcerer over to Wisdom, where the Sorcery is channeled through the PC's understanding of their innate powers and not the CHA based "force of will" I'd actually be more on board with that.  

I think sure, a more sophisticated or at least "dense" game might take Cleric spellcasting out of WIS and create a sort of "Piety/spiritual" stat (PIE OR SPI?) for magic, split CHA into both "nice dudeness" and WILL with the Sorcerer being dumped into the latter.  This would also likely unbind skills from particular stats since there would be many more wobblers.  But despite all that, or even such a system I still see Wizards being bound to INT as opposed to what WIS presently represents.  

My thinking is that Int is such a dump stat that it wouldn't be such a massive addition to Wisdom to toss all its proficiencies and spellcasting classes under it. 

I get it, and there are stripped down games of D&D (I think either or both the Black Hack and White Hack books do this) just combine them into something like "brains"; but the game is invested in making a distinction between "(academically) studied" knowledge and more organic/holistic forms of knowledge.  INT is a dump stat if history/lore/religion and the deciphering of ancient texts and what not don't matter to your game.  I think D&D in comparison to other games doesn't do a lot of service to "investigation and research", but a DM could with what's on hand. 

Wizards have the big ol' list of spells, I got no problem keeping that big ol' list locked under a "dump stat" for the privilege of effective access to said list.  

Quote from Kronzypantz >>

My thinking is that Int is such a dump stat that it wouldn't be such a massive addition to Wisdom to toss all its proficiencies and spellcasting classes under it. 

 The way I see it, int is only considered "such a dump stat" because wizard has been the only one that really uses it for such a long time. Wisdom and charisma are used as secondary/tertiary stats for a few classes like monk and rogue. In terms of skills, those stats have skills that relate directly to social interaction. Intelligence skills are essentially all about recalling information, and likely won't come up unless you specifically ask for them. I imagine people find the int skills less important because if a piece of information is vital to the game, the DM may just give that to the players in one way or another.

However, as it's been mentioned, int still has its role in the game. Lumping it into another stat would just make that stat overloaded.

 Lumping it into another stat would just make that stat overloaded.

Would it though? Int doesn't have some secondary utility outside of skills, like effecting passive perception or AC.

The only benefit to Wisdom would be a few extra skills being buffed. And we already have a game where every stat effects a different number of skills (strength only effects athletics, con effects nothing, dex 3, and the mental stats each get 4). 

That doesn't seem broken when expertise and jack of all trades exist, but maybe some skills could go to Charisma to balance out. 

That is really the only balance issue, if its an issue at all. 

Quote from Kronzypantz >>

 Lumping it into another stat would just make that stat overloaded.

Would it though? Int doesn't have some secondary utility outside of skills, like effecting passive perception or AC.

The only benefit to Wisdom would be a few extra skills being buffed. And we already have a game where every stat effects a different number of skills (strength only effects athletics, con effects nothing, dex 3, and the mental stats each get 4). 

That doesn't seem broken when expertise and jack of all trades exist, but maybe some skills could go to Charisma to balance out. 

That is really the only balance issue, if its an issue at all. 

 Wisdom is already strong, since it holds perception, which is one of the most rolled skills in the game. Also, intelligence does affect passive investigation.
Only charisma has 4 skills. Wisdom and intelligence each have 5. If you lumped together intelligence and wisdom, wisdom would then have 10 skills. That's a pretty overloaded skill set for one stat. None of the existing intelligence skills would make sense to add to anything but Wis either. Maybe you could give investigation to dex but either way, wisdom would then own at least half of the skills in the game. There are 18 skills, and wisdom would then have 9, or 10 and all three passive skills depending on where investigation goes.

In addition, think about multiclassing with blade song. If a monk took two levels of wizard for bladesinger, they would then be adding their wisdom to their AC twice. Unarmoured defense and blade song are separate features, so they would stack. Since Clerics and Druids generally want to max their Wisdom ASAP, they'd be able to add 5 to both their AC and their concentration checks.
To be honest, way less people would play full wizard. The spellbook mechanics are one of the biggest aspects of a wizard. Now the other wisdom classes can just take that for only one level, though they'd probably take two for blade song. I know that any class could multiclass for blade song, but if that blade song scales with your primary attribute, it'd just make too much sense to not take it. Even just one level for the spellbook would add so much scaling utility to a wisdom spellcaster.

Also, intelligence does affect passive investigation.

Sure, but its already so commonly just forgotten in favor of just always using passive perception that its still not much of a concern. 

There are 18 skills, and wisdom would then have 9, or 10 and all three passive skills depending on where investigation goes.

I already pointed out that they can be divided with the other stats

In addition, think about multiclassing with blade song.

A single potential multiclass combo that could be broken begs the question of errata for that one subclass. 

Not that it would be especially strong anyway. The monk would be putting off dear ASI's and ki points to only use one bullet out of a feature and be a relatively poor spell caster. The only advantage would be relatively hard to hit, but the incentive to throw their ASI's into Wis for double AC gains means they would be a terribly lack luster damage dealer. 

It wouldn't even be broken. Interesting to roleplay and extremely good at one niche thing, but not broken. 

I already pointed out that they can be divided with the other stats

Except none of the other stats except wisdom make any sense for the int skills. Wisdom would still have half the skills in the game.

A single potential multiclass combo that could be broken begs the question of errata for that one subclass. 

You're focused too much on the monk, and you still don't need to sacrifice ASIs for that combo to work. And if you did pump all your ASIs into wisdom, you'd just become the party's tank and can leave damage to someone else. The main point is that having a wisdom wizard would still add way too much utility to druid and/or cleric. There's also the fact that Artificer would also become a wisdom class.

Honestly, if you want to combine any two stats it would be strength and constitution. They're the closest stats, both mechanically and thematically, and wouldn't result in an overloaded stat.

Except none of the other stats except wisdom make any sense for the int skills. Wisdom would still have half the skills in the game.

Some skills can be moved in in-exact manner. Survival become Con, Insight becomes Charisma (already kind of in that vein of effecting people), History could be Charisma too to balance out. 

Or Wis could have a few extra skills. That represents the power of knowledge, both from book learning and experience. Not all stats are created equal anyways. 

You're focused too much on the monk, and you still don't need to sacrifice ASIs for that combo to work.

Im just responding to the one multiclass example you flagged as problematic, and putting off ASIs by 2 levels is a sacrifice. Especially when most games peter out at higher levels, when the full benefit of the combo would come on line. 

The main point is that having a wisdom wizard would still add way too much utility to druid and/or cleric. There's also the fact that Artificer would also become a wisdom class.

I just don't buy it. Multiclassing comes with built in downsides such as slowing slowing progression of higher level spells known, postponing other class/subclass features and ASIs.

For example, no one looks at the way greater synergy possible between all the Charisma based muticlass builds and complains that is game breaking. In fact, its a major point of fun character crafting for a lot of players, mixing and matching those classes. 

Honestly, if you want to combine any two stats it would be strength and constitution. They're the closest stats, both mechanically and thematically, and wouldn't result in an overloaded stat.

That feels like a sensible idea, but letting Barbarians, Paladins, and Fighters max out Strength and Con by level 8 (or even level 6 for the fighter) is potentially game breaking. It would at least leave those martial classes way stronger in general than they already are at lower levels, and be a more general issue than one stat having a few extra skills associated with it.