Quote from Dracopolis >>

Also:  Every faction openly recruits, and wants anyone who wants to join?  None of them are the least bit secretive, or exclusive?

 That has been so in the past, too. The Revolutionary League and the Xaositects did it in secret, and also these two barely had any organization to speak of (same for the Indeps, who are basically people without a Faction). For the others, membership is a thing of pride, not secretive. I assume the Hands of Havoc are still secretive since they are the probably merger of these three chaotic Factions, plus they have no known leadership.

Quote from InShambles >>

Quote from Twitchswitch >>

The posters look okay, they get to the point and show what each faction is about briefly.

But they're all a bit too.... cookie cutter?

Would have been nice if each reflected the style of their faction, as if the poster was made by the faction.

Right?  I was going to make a joke about them using the same corporate template.  The mottos are bland too.

 Well, these are just artwork of Faction members from the book (we have seen some of these before) with a blurb written by WotC for advertisment purposes. It's not like these are real posters from Sigil, they are promotion material for us.

the lady of pain is a neutral being as sigil is in the middle of the multiverse. As long as nobody tries to replace her the factions can have there little terf wars (as long as they know whos in charge)

Quote from BBShockwave >>

Quote from TWForgeCleric >>

I am honestly surprised that the Lady of Pain would allow any factions to exist within her domain.   Particularly those dedicated to disorder.   How do they avoid her gaze, and how do their actions not draw her ire?

 Why wouldn't she? She is not concerned with whatever they want to do outside of Sigil, as long as they run the town well. They major Factions all have a role to play - Guvners catalog the laws and act as lawyers, Harmonium are city police, Bleakers run the asylum, Dustmen run the morgue, Sensates the festhall, etc. They all follow the laws set up by the Lady, though. Nobody wants to make a move against her, they know she is more powerful than all of them together. Besides, why would they want to? They are more interested in promoting their ideals over the planes or plotting against other Factions.

There used to be more than 50 Factions in the distant past, and a lot of conflict between them, and the Lady decreed (via Dabus) that they should cut down to 15 max. So most of those merged into these current Factions or disbanded.

Oh, that is interesting.  I had always assumed she would be very against any kind of Factions, in the way she is against cults or religions etc.  It is interesting that she is using them to keep Sigil a working, running city.  She allows them to exist, and in return they run what is the cities essential services.   I knew she did not care what people did outside of Sigil, but it seems I have overestimated some parts of her character.  

Quote from TWForgeCleric >>

Quote from BBShockwave >>

Quote from TWForgeCleric >>

I am honestly surprised that the Lady of Pain would allow any factions to exist within her domain.   Particularly those dedicated to disorder.   How do they avoid her gaze, and how do their actions not draw her ire?

 Why wouldn't she? She is not concerned with whatever they want to do outside of Sigil, as long as they run the town well. They major Factions all have a role to play - Guvners catalog the laws and act as lawyers, Harmonium are city police, Bleakers run the asylum, Dustmen run the morgue, Sensates the festhall, etc. They all follow the laws set up by the Lady, though. Nobody wants to make a move against her, they know she is more powerful than all of them together. Besides, why would they want to? They are more interested in promoting their ideals over the planes or plotting against other Factions.

There used to be more than 50 Factions in the distant past, and a lot of conflict between them, and the Lady decreed (via Dabus) that they should cut down to 15 max. So most of those merged into these current Factions or disbanded.

 

Oh, that is interesting.  I had always assumed she would be very against any kind of Factions, in the way she is against cults or religions etc.  It is interesting that she is using them to keep Sigil a working, running city.  She allows them to exist, and in return they run what is the cities essential services.   I knew she did not care what people did outside of Sigil, but it seems I have overestimated some parts of her character.  

A good rule of thumb for her is she is not concerned with or hardly even notices anyone (individual or group) unless they threaten Sigil itself (either physical city and/or overall population), then you feel her wrath. But as long as you stay under that radar, she doesn't even acknowledge your existence - with a little quirk that if you try to worship her, you're toast. :)

With the Factions in the Planescape Classic canon, she clearly, directly acknowledged them really only twice, if I recall. Once in the Great Upheaval. This was the event BBShockwave mentioned with going from 50 to 15 Factions that was precipitated by massive fighting between them that finally rose to the level of threatening the overall population. And secondly in the Faction War adventure where, keeping it vague for spoilers, there is again open warfare between Factions but precipitated by a certain Factol carrying out a very old plan to try to seize control of Sigil itself. Other than that it's either rumors of secret influence (like a possible plague that cut down one Faction that was growing way too big) or usually completely ignoring the Factions altogether.

Even religion and temples are ok in Sigil, just gods themselves cannot enter (sorry, FR deities who keep popping up in person everywhere), and, again, as long as the temples stay in their lane and don't try anything that would harm the continuance of Sigil itself, the Lady of Pain doesn't appear to even notice them at all.

Being new for the setting it is gloriously uninteresting and messy just upon a glance towards factions. I don't understand shit  and it feels I won't if I read further.

Skipping that release whatsoever

Nothing says Forgotten Realms immersive like Helvetica ....

Quote from JadeDoe >>

Being new for the setting it is gloriously uninteresting and messy just upon a glance towards factions. I don't understand shit  and it feels I won't if I read further.

Skipping that release whatsoever

 Think you should wait a bit. 

Would be nice if we could download all posters with one click instead of each one individually. Wasting time this way. 

For anyone interested, I isolated the symbols.

Can we all agree that the posters all have such incredible visual designs? Each faction's poster is so distinct and vibrant!

You mean Cant.  Planars use a form of speech called the Cant where they refer to things using slang, euphamism.  If you've ever seen an east-london crime movie you'll understand what I mean.  Planars tend to name things with a sense of gallows humor.  Might as well get a few good'uns in before you get written in the book, right, cutter?  You can't give death the laugh so you might as well laugh at life instead--only a killjoy berk or a Hardhead or a far too serious prime wouldn't.

A 'dustman' is a term for a garbage collector.  The Dustmen named themselves that because of their job--running the mortuary.  They humbly collect the trash--planar and primer corpses (petitioners don't leave corpses, yes there's three types of citizens, always remember your Rule of Threes)--and they accept it as it is.

Dustmen don't tend to be gloomy or broody about things, because they live amongst the dead.  Not in the 'they run a mortuary' sense, but because they literally live in the afterlife.  They're belief isn't 'necrosad' it's 'When we die, we come back as these guys, that petitioner, over there, selling swords and just trying to do his best, so what's to say that petitioner, when they die, don't move on to a different form?  It's all one big journey baybay.'

Dustmen aren't -ominous- and 'Heralds of Dust' makes them sound like the planar equivalent of a Myrkulite cult, rather than a more upbeat version of the Kelemvorite church.

  

Quote from Quickleaf2 >>

There's some really weird continuity stuff happening here ...

The factols listed are all from the Planescape setting pre-Faction War. Notably, the factol of the Fated is still Duke Rowan Darkwood 

 
Things like Rhys not being a tiefling are especially galling.

I feel like there's a long history of the game that's been erased here.  Tieflings are a very popular race, and Rhys being the first time in the entire history of Dungeons and Dragons a player encounters an artistic rendering of a tiefling and to have her just transformed into a dragonborn just because is galling.  Also Pentar was a tiefling, not a heckin drow.

Making Rowan from a Greyhawk human to a tiefling is fine, but then it feels they went 'Well we can't have TWO, never mind THREE tieflings in Planescape' which would be like saying you can't have two dragons in Dragonlance levels of addle-coved barmy berk nonsense... 

Could you imagine if you presented a new Planescape (as opposed to a Manual of the Planes) and you:

1)  Didn't use the Cant
2)  Didn't show a single bauriar or githzerai, you know, core races of the setting, more core than half-orcs and drow
3)  Only had one tiefling depicted, and have it NOT be someone who was originally a tiefling.
4)  Ignored the directive of Planescape's origins and only had the 'big devil horns and red-to-purple skin' style tieflings, rather than the original diverse 'no two tieflings are the same in their fiendishness' mode

It feels very strongly that the people who made this understand Planescape through the lens of 3rd and 4th edition books that reference it, rather than through the lens of the original boxed sets.  It feels like if someone made a Dark Sun setting with paladins but without defiling or elemental priests--it doesn't feel right.

I remember Planescape.  Can you please show me some Planescape, when you try to sell Planescape?  I see ya'll rattlin' yer bone box, but it don't feel legit--it feels like a knight trying to do a bit of cross trade, and I ain't got jink to waste on something from the post.

Quote from TWForgeCleric >>

I am honestly surprised that the Lady of Pain would allow any factions to exist within her domain.   Particularly those dedicated to disorder.   How do they avoid her gaze, and how do their actions not draw her ire?

 
Because she doesn't care about order.  Or disorder.

If it helps to understand Sigil, understand what it is geographically.

In the Outer Planes, there's one plane called the Outlands (by locals) or Concordant Opposition (by outsiders) and these names are significant.  It's both outside the strict philosophical hegemonies that mark each other Outer Plane, but not because of rejection, but because of conflict.  Concordant Opposition means that those philosophies are present and in opposition to each other, and thus, the Outlands remains true neutral.  Not 'neutral' in the sense those philosophies are not allowed, but neutral, in the sense, all those philosophies are permitted and encouraged to conflict.

The Cage is at the center of all that.  Now, the Lady of Pain doesn't care about murder, crime, revolution, arguments, conflict, because she is conflict incarnate.  Disorder is as welcome as order, and in fact, a necessary thing.

Take the Harmonium.  They're corrupt.  They're baddies.  They're the sort that kidnap people and force them into re-education camps 'for the greater good' and in 2e, even had mind control powers--they even caused an entire layer of the lawful neutral Arcadia to slip from Arcadia to the non-good plane of Mechanus because of their camps.

This is a dangerous group to have around.  They're very good at keeping the peace, but they're very good at imposing their own law and taking over, and having their consciences clean as they do it.  So the Lady of Pain invites sedition against them, through groups that reject this view taking over other power structures (the Mercykillers being in charge of prosecution and the Fraternity of Order being judiciary really helps temper their excesses, having the Sinkers in charge of the Armory keeps the tools of oppression out of the Hardheads' hands, having Indeps and Anarchists actively opposing them gives people options to choose not to be with them, etc.) but also because the Lady of Pain understands how the entire game works in the Outer Planes.

Groups that exist to upturn the status quo are necessary for Sigil because if they don't exist, Sigil won't be in the Outlands any more.  The Lady of Pain will abide people arguing and conflict with each other, so long as it doesn't endanger what Sigil is.  But if anyone makes a powerplay for Sigil itself, it's the mazes for them.

The Lady of Pain is the arbiter of Neutrality-as-conflict.  And Sigil exists to cage that conflict, to give a place where demons and devils and angels can conflict philosophically, without the war.  That's why disorder groups are tolerated--because they bring the conflict so that the ordered groups do not take over philosophically, and therefore geographically.

Plus, the factions do a good job running public works and the Lady of Pain can't be bothered with that nonsense.  

Quote from Disgruntler >>

Quote from Quickleaf2 >>

There's some really weird continuity stuff happening here ...

The factols listed are all from the Planescape setting pre-Faction War. Notably, the factol of the Fated is still Duke Rowan Darkwood 

 
Things like Rhys not being a tiefling are especially galling.

I feel like there's a long history of the game that's been erased here.  Tieflings are a very popular race, and Rhys being the first time in the entire history of Dungeons and Dragons a player encounters an artistic rendering of a tiefling and to have her just transformed into a dragonborn just because is galling.  Also Pentar was a tiefling, not a heckin drow.

Making Rowan from a Greyhawk human to a tiefling is fine, but then it feels they went 'Well we can't have TWO, never mind THREE tieflings in Planescape' which would be like saying you can't have two dragons in Dragonlance levels of addle-coved barmy berk nonsense... 

Could you imagine if you presented a new Planescape (as opposed to a Manual of the Planes) and you:

1)  Didn't use the Cant
2)  Didn't show a single bauriar or githzerai, you know, core races of the setting, more core than half-orcs and drow
3)  Only had one tiefling depicted, and have it NOT be someone who was originally a tiefling.
4)  Ignored the directive of Planescape's origins and only had the 'big devil horns and red-to-purple skin' style tieflings, rather than the original diverse 'no two tieflings are the same in their fiendishness' mode

It feels very strongly that the people who made this understand Planescape through the lens of 3rd and 4th edition books that reference it, rather than through the lens of the original boxed sets.  It feels like if someone made a Dark Sun setting with paladins but without defiling or elemental priests--it doesn't feel right.

I remember Planescape.  Can you please show me some Planescape, when you try to sell Planescape?  I see ya'll rattlin' yer bone box, but it don't feel legit--it feels like a knight trying to do a bit of cross trade, and I ain't got jink to waste on something from the post.

Those pictures aren’t the factols.

Quote from Twitchswitch >>

The posters look okay, they get to the point and show what each faction is about briefly.

But they're all a bit too.... cookie cutter?

Would have been nice if each reflected the style of their faction, as if the poster was made by the faction.

Well in that case, the Bleakers would never make a poster;  They discourged casual joiners.

Things like Rhys not being a tiefling are especially galling.

I feel like there's a long history of the game that's been erased here.  Tieflings are a very popular race, and Rhys being the first time in the entire history of Dungeons and Dragons a player encounters an artistic rendering of a tiefling and to have her just transformed into a dragonborn just because is galling.  Also Pentar was a tiefling, not a heckin drow.

Making Rowan from a Greyhawk human to a tiefling is fine, but then it feels they went 'Well we can't have TWO, never mind THREE tieflings in Planescape' which would be like saying you can't have two dragons in Dragonlance levels of addle-coved barmy berk nonsense... 

Could you imagine if you presented a new Planescape (as opposed to a Manual of the Planes) and you:

1)  Didn't use the Cant
2)  Didn't show a single bauriar or githzerai, you know, core races of the setting, more core than half-orcs and drow
3)  Only had one tiefling depicted, and have it NOT be someone who was originally a tiefling.
4)  Ignored the directive of Planescape's origins and only had the 'big devil horns and red-to-purple skin' style tieflings, rather than the original diverse 'no two tieflings are the same in their fiendishness' mode

It feels very strongly that the people who made this understand Planescape through the lens of 3rd and 4th edition books that reference it, rather than through the lens of the original boxed sets.  It feels like if someone made a Dark Sun setting with paladins but without defiling or elemental priests--it doesn't feel right.

I remember Planescape.  Can you please show me some Planescape, when you try to sell Planescape?  I see ya'll rattlin' yer bone box, but it don't feel legit--it feels like a knight trying to do a bit of cross trade, and I ain't got jink to waste on something from the post.

These are just posters, not the actual Factols.

I think that some of the changes in "aligned plane" are interesting. (I'm even wondering "aligned plane" as opposed to "planar headquarters") The Doomguard took the Elemental Chaos, whereas before they had five headquarters on the Negative Quasi-elemental planes of Ash, Dust, Salt, and Vacuum, while now they have the Elemental Chaos, and the Heralds of Dust have Hades, instead of the Negative Elemental Plane. 

 While I loved Planescape when I was playing 2nd Edition, I always felt like there was a bunch of clutter, and 4e really made much more economy of concepts (I can never remember what defines Gehenna, Carceri, and Acheron, and had to double check that the Mercykillers hadn't been in Carceri before) and I don't know why my players would ever go to Bytopia versus Elysium). 5e seems to be struggling bringing in both sometimes.

I totally approve of them getting rid of the positive and negative elemental plane, it was an awkward place that didn't seem to have any real possibility for adventuring. Also the introduction of the Shadowfell and the Feywild introduced two staple genres of fantasy into the planar setup, haunted gothic world, and magic infused wonder world that kind of took their place.

I feel like the Heralds of Dust would have fit very well in the Shadowfell, it seems more neutral than Hades which is very evil aligned. I even see them positing that you're either on the prime material or in the outer planes, and neither is at rest unless it's merged with the Shadowfell, (and could totally have seen the Society of Sensation moved to the Feywild, but Arborea is fine. Arborea and the Feywild also kind of compete for space in my mind) I kind of wished they had kept Limbo and the Elemental Chaos fused. However I HIGHLY approve of tightening up the Factions that competed for conceptual space. Mind's Eye, and Hands of Havoc are very welcome. As well as removing the Free League. A faction for people who don't want to join a faction? Go home Planescape you're doing too much.

Here would be my edited Great Wheel that no one asked for, and is too late to influence anyone at WotC before this book comes out. Some of the iconic planar factions, Devils and Demons take the slot of "ideal" faction. Not really related, just noticed it had a nice symmetry.

Mechanus, Ultimate Order (Fraternity of Order compete with Modrons)

I'm realizing I strongly identify with none of these Which...I suspect was not the intent.

My strongest identification is actually with the Bleakers, followed by the Defiers. Not sure what that says about me, but it's probably nothing positive. Funniest thing is, the Guvners (great epithet, btw) should have been an easy sell to me - but the synopsis just doesn't land. At all.