Quote from NERVA >>

If a player is taken below 0 HP with this. Do they start making death saves or are they turned into a zombie like the spell says?

 

 

Beyond 20

 

 

 

 

 

They are turned into a zombie.  Always do what the spell says.

Quote from Jaysburn >>

Quote from NERVA >>

If a player is taken below 0 HP with this. Do they start making death saves or are they turned into a zombie like the spell says?

 They are turned into a zombie.  Always do what the spell says.

 That is incorrect. A creature is not “killed” until it is dead. A PC (or technically any creature) is not dead until it has failed 3 death saving throws. 0 HP is not “dead” just unconscious.

You could create a army of zombies cool

Quote from SergeTroy >>

6th level Spell, Disentegrate: 10d6 + 40 Force

Finger of Death, a 7th level spell: 7d8 + 30 Necrotic (for more common resistance type).  

Hello to house rules for bad game design.

 But zombies

Am i crazy or did this spell used to be "raises as a zombie or skeleton (your choice)" in the past? i clearly remember reading it like that and thinking skeles

It doesn't create a zombie out of anything thing that you kill, just humanoids.

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I think (So I very well may be wrong) that this is supposed to be one the few "save or die" spells in the game. If you are dropped to 0 HP with this spell, you are dead and become a Zombie. 

The wording here is tricky, "A humanoid killed by this spell". But if you are making death saves, what killed you? Was it this spell or the Skeleton that walked up and stabbed your unconscious body for 2 failed death saves? I think that this spell has waaaaaaaay less utility if you are just trying to use it on a 1 HP player to try and do enough damage "negative damage" to instakill them.

On top of that, flip the situation around. If the players used this spell against a high HP NPC, and that drops them to 0, do they not become a zombie because they technically should be making death saves? That sounds too complex for most games, to be rolling death saves for every downed enemy in combat. I just like the idea that this is one of the very few "save or die" spells in the game. I already feel that death is merely of a minor inconvenience in this game, so I think that this spell existing is fine. Plus it is 7th level, that is pretty high so most PCs shouldn't encounter it very often, plus that gives a new chance for story potential, how do we restore our undead friend? If they were just dead, bam 5th level Raise dead. But this undead, it is going to take more than 500 gp and a mid level Cleric to break this.

Or at least that is how I feel.

Quote from novadragon07 >>

I think (So I very well may be wrong) that this is supposed to be one the few "save or die" spells in the game. If you are dropped to 0 HP with this spell, you are dead and become a Zombie.

 The spell deals damage, it's not an instant death effect, so it only kills the target if it is already at 0 HP and has failed 2 death saves, or if the spell causes massive damage ("When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum.") Being reduced to 0 HP by the spell is not the same as being killed by the spell.

Edit: I would agree though that if you are reduced to 0 HP by this spell and then die in subsequent rounds purely due to rolling death saves and failing, that would count as being "killed by this spell". It only gets debatable if the spell reduces you to 0 HP and then some other damage source is what results in the actual death. I would argue that the spiral of semantic insanity brought up by Haravikk in the post below is actually worse if you interpret that as being killed by the spell, though. If a character has 60 HP and Finger of Death does 59 damage to them, and other damage sources then reduce them to 0 HP and then kill them, that should equally count as being killed by the spell under that interpretation—after all, the character wouldn't have died if the spell hadn't been cast, right? Madness indeed.

Quote from novadragon07 >>

Was it this spell or the Skeleton that walked up and stabbed your unconscious body for 2 failed death saves?

 

 

Beyond 20

 

 

 

 

 

I would argue the spell still killed you in this case, as the skeletons wouldn't have been able to finish you off without it being cast first. Any other interpretation leads to a spiral of semantic insanity; e.g- if I push someone off a cliff, is it me that killed them, or the ground at the bottom?

In a way, basically everything that damages you in a fight contributes to your death (if the death saves are failed), so if multiple spells, abilities etc. have on death effects, then your DM will decide which one to apply (probably the latest one to be used).

We decided to house rule it this way.  Additional sentences:  "If the damage from the spell reduces you to 0 hp but does not kill you [i.e. PCs not slain outright via the Massive Damage rule], you must make an additional save at the same DC.  If you fail this save, you die instantly (triggering the rest of the spell).  If you succeed, you are Dying, as normal, but will still be raised by a zombie if you die before returning to a positive hp total."

If a PC gets hit by this spell and drops to 0 HP, technically they aren't instantly killed right?  Since the text says a humanoid killed by this spell and just dropping to 0 HP for a PC isn't being killed yet.  Came up in our game and I'm curious.

Great Spell because there are no costly components.  

Same for my Elf paladin.  Stealing the white hair thing, so thanks for that!

Quote from novadragon07 >>

I think (So I very well may be wrong) that this is supposed to be one the few "save or die" spells in the game. If you are dropped to 0 HP with this spell, you are dead and become a Zombie.

That is incorrect. The normal rules for character death apply here. Confirmed by Jeremy Crawford.

Quote from novadragon07 >>

The wording here is tricky, "A humanoid killed by this spell". But if you are making death saves, what killed you? Was it this spell or the Skeleton that walked up and stabbed your unconscious body for 2 failed death saves? I think that this spell has waaaaaaaay less utility if you are just trying to use it on a 1 HP player to try and do enough damage "negative damage" to instakill them.

If you die after having failed three death saves, you were killed by that failure. As per Crawford's confirmation, you weren't killed by a spell if the spell reduced you to 0 hit points and left you alive. You can kill a player character with this spell if they have already failed two death saves.

Quote from novadragon07 >>

On top of that, flip the situation around. If the players used this spell against a high HP NPC, and that drops them to 0, do they not become a zombie because they technically should be making death saves?

RAW a monster dies when it drops to 0 hit points. A DM can choose to make exceptions for certain monsters by having them follow the rules for PCs.

Quote from Tesseract_ >>

I would agree though that if you are reduced to 0 HP by this spell and then die in subsequent rounds purely due to rolling death saves and failing, that would count as being "killed by this spell".

 As confirmed by Jeremy Crawford, you are not killed by a spell if the spell leaves you both with 0 hit points and alive.

Quote from Haravikk >>

I would argue the spell still killed you in this case, as the skeletons wouldn't have been able to finish you off without it being cast first.

The rules are only interested in what actually killed you. If you failed three death saves, that is what killed you regardless of how you may phrase it in conversation, e.g. "Remember when you were killed by that weak little goblin har har har?"

Quote from Haravikk >>

Any other interpretation leads to a spiral of semantic insanity; e.g- if I push someone off a cliff, is it me that killed them, or the ground at the bottom?

In a way, basically everything that damages you in a fight contributes to your death (if the death saves are failed), so if multiple spells, abilities etc. have on death effects, then your DM will decide which one to apply (probably the latest one to be used).

The rules aren't interested in semantics. The ground is what actually killed them. You only killed them insofar as your push started the chain of events that led to the ground killing them upon impact.

Quote from Haravikk >>

In a way, basically everything that damages you in a fight contributes to your death (if the death saves are failed), so if multiple spells, abilities etc. have on death effects, then your DM will decide which one to apply (probably the latest one to be used).

By that logic, the father of the boy who was kidnapped by the goblins whose dragon boss breathed fire on you also killed you.

The only question you need to ask is "what mechanically happened that directly put you in the state of being dead?" If the damage done by the spell is what did that, then the spell killed you. Otherwise, it didn't.

Quote from Tamakins >>

If a PC gets hit by this spell and drops to 0 HP, technically they aren't instantly killed right?  Since the text says a humanoid killed by this spell and just dropping to 0 HP for a PC isn't being killed yet.  Came up in our game and I'm curious.

 

 

Beyond 20

 

 

 

 

 

 You're correct in your assessment.

i think you forgot that a long rest is 8 hours minimum

Quote from TheAlmightyN >>

Quote from Haravikk >>

I would argue the spell still killed you in this case, as the skeletons wouldn't have been able to finish you off without it being cast first.

The rules are only interested in what actually killed you. If you failed three death saves, that is what killed you regardless of how you may phrase it in conversation, e.g. "Remember when you were killed by that weak little goblin har har har?"

By that logic you are effectively rendering this spell useless; because technically you cannot kill anything with it unless you are forcing the final failed death save, that's one hell of a nerf to a 7th level spell.

If you reduce a creature to 0 hit-points with this spell then the spell is the reason that that creature is dying.

This holds true with medical cause of death; if a person falls and breaks their neck, it's the broken neck that kills them, even if they survive for a few hours before suffering organ failure (due to no signals from the brain).

I'm not sure why you want to nerf a 7th-level spell that's very, very clear in how it's intended to work?