How does a Divine Soul sorcerer handle spellcasting ability? Is it Cha all around, does it vary for each spell, does the player pick? 

Quote from ArimusofAmber >>

I'm playing a chaotic good female half elf and have a very specific image for the character concept that im very partial too. My question is for a draconic bloodline do I have to adhere to the scales and eventual wings🙄? Asthetics are a major part of my character creations and the overall storyline that is heavily human based and outsiders are viewed with suspicion and contemp. Should I select my second and less favored option of divine or move on to another character concept? 

Those are class features both the upgrades as well as the aesthetic....so I would say "Yes". If you don't want to have dragon features then don't have dragon blood.

I'm playing a chaotic good female half elf and have a very specific image for the character concept that im very partial too. My question is for a draconic bloodline do I have to adhere to the scales and eventual wings🙄? Asthetics are a major part of my character creations and the overall storyline that is heavily human based and outsiders are viewed with suspicion and contemp. Should I select my second and less favored option of divine or move on to another character concept? 

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from WallineDungeonMaster >>

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

 

I would argue you aren't rolling d8s, you are maximizing the damage but not the roll and those are two different things. Chaos Bolt chaining is not dependent on damage. You can roll two 1s on a d8 doing 2 +1d6 damage, and it still chains. Similarly a maxed Chaos Bolt won't automatically do Thunder damage. 

Edit: For Example, getting an auto-crit from something like a helpless target isn't going to have Vorpal trigger unless you *actually* still roll the Nat 20. This is the same thing, you would do max damage, but you still need to roll to see if it chains, and what kind of damage it deals. 

 I suppose that’s true, though you could argue that reasoning is against the intention of Chaos Bolt in the first place. Crawford tweeted they specifically targeted the spell towards sorcerers because of their connection to chaotic energies. Plus, considering there’s only a 2% chance of rolling that option, and then afterwards there’s supposed to only be a 67% chance you hit with each attack, it seems like an unnecessary one given how unlikely this scenario is to do any major harm. You’re not wrong, I’d just argue that it’s against what it’s meant to be.

 
Crawford also said Magic Missile is one die roll, so every missile is that damage which...makes no sense for how the spell works, and arguably makes it awful because it's way too swingy for a first level spell. Crawford's random interpretation of "RAW for Magic Missile" which doesn't really have a basis due to the wording of the spell's effects. So his interpretations can subjectively be wrong because his basis of "RAW" is using the AoE spell rules which have Fireball and Lightning Bolt as examples of how you don't roll damage for each target hit, which isn't really supported with Magic Missile since it isn't an AoE in that sense.

But a minimum of 22 thunder damage to every enemy until you choose to end Chaos Bolt stopping chaining, because you *choose* if it leaps to a new "target" which would start hitting friends seems far from intended. Of course I am not saying that you can't rule it that if you wild surge chaos bolt and get that result it can't do 22 thunder damage to every enemy, but there is far less support for that in the rules because it specified "damage" while the spell effect is for the most part damage independent. 

 

Edit: A specific edge case for a specific subclass for a specific spell shouldn't be used for intent. 

In my game, I've sort of altered chaos bolt to make it have a bit more of that mutation:

The spell works pretty much the same, but starts at 2d8 and scales 1d8 per level. In addition, the spell loses one damage dice each time it jumps to another target.

This increases the chance of jumping the higher you cast it, and creates the feel that it is losing energy the more it jumps. It also creates more options for choosing a damage type. The spell introduced in Xanathars has a 1/8 chance in jumping constantly, making it a 1/64 chance to jump twice. My rendition of the spell increases the chance for upcasting and decreases when jumping. Cast at 3rd level, the spell would deal 4d8 damage. It has a 3/8 chance of jumping to another target. If it does, the next bolt deals 3d8 damage and has a 1/4 chance of jumping. This would continue until the bolt does 1d8 and can't jump, losing its energy. 

In addition, many sorcerers have an ability that allows them to reroll or add damage dice. The constant influxing and altering of the spell's damage type can be taken advantage of by storm sorcerers and draconic bloodlines. Finally, this isn't even taking into account empowered spell, transmuted spell, twined spell, distant spell, and seeking spell, all of which can increase the range, attack rolls, and damage rolls to improve their odds. 

I don't know if this is overpowered or not. What do you guys think?

 
Honestly that kind of makes it worse in terms of balance and disregards a key feature of how the spell works. Chain Lightning is objectively better. Chaos bolt *needs* the attack roll every time it can jump but it's damage diminishes. It doesn't reward high level casting since, for example Chain Lightning is objectively better. You don't need an attack roll, your opponent is more likely to fail the reflex save vs your attack roll and there are more variables to be added to it (vulnerability to Lightning) and it can hit more targets for more damage more reliably.

At best 9d8 that *needs* matching facings  and an attack roll to chain damage with diminishing returns, vs 10d8 that is a Reflex damage and up to 4 targets are automatically hit at 6th level. And 9d8 is generous, it's possible it's 8d8 which is even *less* damage, and more restrictions

 Also tagging on that ‘losing power’ doesn’t really fit the image of chaos the spell is supposed to give.

Quote from WallineDungeonMaster >>

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

 

I would argue you aren't rolling d8s, you are maximizing the damage but not the roll and those are two different things. Chaos Bolt chaining is not dependent on damage. You can roll two 1s on a d8 doing 2 +1d6 damage, and it still chains. Similarly a maxed Chaos Bolt won't automatically do Thunder damage. 

Edit: For Example, getting an auto-crit from something like a helpless target isn't going to have Vorpal trigger unless you *actually* still roll the Nat 20. This is the same thing, you would do max damage, but you still need to roll to see if it chains, and what kind of damage it deals. 

 I suppose that’s true, though you could argue that reasoning is against the intention of Chaos Bolt in the first place. Crawford tweeted they specifically targeted the spell towards sorcerers because of their connection to chaotic energies. Plus, considering there’s only a 2% chance of rolling that option, and then afterwards there’s supposed to only be a 67% chance you hit with each attack, it seems like an unnecessary one given how unlikely this scenario is to do any major harm. You’re not wrong, I’d just argue that it’s against what it’s meant to be.

 
Crawford also said Magic Missile is one die roll, so every missile is that damage which...makes no sense for how the spell works, and arguably makes it awful because it's way too swingy for a first level spell. Crawford's random interpretation of "RAW for Magic Missile" which doesn't really have a basis due to the wording of the spell's effects. So his interpretations can subjectively be wrong because his basis of "RAW" is using the AoE spell rules which have Fireball and Lightning Bolt as examples of how you don't roll damage for each target hit, which isn't really supported with Magic Missile since it isn't an AoE in that sense.

But a minimum of 22 thunder damage to every enemy until you choose to end Chaos Bolt stopping chaining, because you *choose* if it leaps to a new "target" which would start hitting friends seems far from intended. Of course I am not saying that you can't rule it that if you wild surge chaos bolt and get that result it can't do 22 thunder damage to every enemy, but there is far less support for that in the rules because it specified "damage" while the spell effect is for the most part damage independent. 

 

Edit: A specific edge case for a specific subclass for a specific spell shouldn't be used for intent. 

In my game, I've sort of altered chaos bolt to make it have a bit more of that mutation:

The spell works pretty much the same, but starts at 2d8 and scales 1d8 per level. In addition, the spell loses one damage dice each time it jumps to another target.

This increases the chance of jumping the higher you cast it, and creates the feel that it is losing energy the more it jumps. It also creates more options for choosing a damage type. The spell introduced in Xanathars has a 1/8 chance in jumping constantly, making it a 1/64 chance to jump twice. My rendition of the spell increases the chance for upcasting and decreases when jumping. Cast at 3rd level, the spell would deal 4d8 damage. It has a 3/8 chance of jumping to another target. If it does, the next bolt deals 3d8 damage and has a 1/4 chance of jumping. This would continue until the bolt does 1d8 and can't jump, losing its energy. 

In addition, many sorcerers have an ability that allows them to reroll or add damage dice. The constant influxing and altering of the spell's damage type can be taken advantage of by storm sorcerers and draconic bloodlines. Finally, this isn't even taking into account empowered spell, transmuted spell, twined spell, distant spell, and seeking spell, all of which can increase the range, attack rolls, and damage rolls to improve their odds. 

I don't know if this is overpowered or not. What do you guys think?

 
Honestly that kind of makes it worse in terms of balance and disregards a key feature of how the spell works. Chain Lightning is objectively better. Chaos bolt *needs* the attack roll every time it can jump but it's damage diminishes. It doesn't reward high level casting since, for example Chain Lightning is objectively better. You don't need an attack roll, your opponent is more likely to fail the reflex save vs your attack roll and there are more variables to be added to it (vulnerability to Lightning) and it can hit more targets for more damage more reliably.

At best 8d8 that *needs* matching facings  and an attack roll to chain damage with diminishing returns, vs 10d8 that is a Reflex damage and up to 4 targets are automatically hit at 6th level. 8d8 that will be 7 with an attack roll, then 6 and an attack roll, and then 5 and an attack roll, and each roll you *have to roll matching faces or it stops*  and if you miss at any point the spell ends, will never compete with Chain Lightning.

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

I suppose you're right. I'll stick this under 'DM's interpretation' though, since when this was brought up at our table he agreed that would be what happened.

 Which I think was where I was going. In this case it's entirely DM Ruling. If you want to be strict RAW there is probably less support than even RAI, but you *can* make the decision since it's such an edge case it works to be disgusting *if* it works. However Crawford's opinions are kind of questionable at best in my opinion, and further of my opinion worth less than Sage Advice which a lot of people view as iffy at all.

But Rules as Interpreted/Written with how auto crits work, it doesn't chain until you choose for it to stop. Ultimately in this case it depends on your DM there won't be an answer that makes you happy from an official view. 

I suppose you're right. I'll stick this under 'DM's interpretation' though, since when this was brought up at our table he agreed that would be what happened.

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

 

I would argue you aren't rolling d8s, you are maximizing the damage but not the roll and those are two different things. Chaos Bolt chaining is not dependent on damage. You can roll two 1s on a d8 doing 2 +1d6 damage, and it still chains. Similarly a maxed Chaos Bolt won't automatically do Thunder damage. 

Edit: For Example, getting an auto-crit from something like a helpless target isn't going to have Vorpal trigger unless you *actually* still roll the Nat 20. This is the same thing, you would do max damage, but you still need to roll to see if it chains, and what kind of damage it deals. 

 I suppose that’s true, though you could argue that reasoning is against the intention of Chaos Bolt in the first place. Crawford tweeted they specifically targeted the spell towards sorcerers because of their connection to chaotic energies. Plus, considering there’s only a 2% chance of rolling that option, and then afterwards there’s supposed to only be a 67% chance you hit with each attack, it seems like an unnecessary one given how unlikely this scenario is to do any major harm. You’re not wrong, I’d just argue that it’s against what it’s meant to be.

 
Crawford also said Magic Missile is one die roll, so every missile is that damage which...makes no sense for how the spell works, and arguably makes it awful because it's way too swingy for a first level spell. Crawford's random interpretation of "RAW for Magic Missile" which doesn't really have a basis due to the wording of the spell's effects. So his interpretations can subjectively be wrong because his basis of "RAW" is using the AoE spell rules which have Fireball and Lightning Bolt as examples of how you don't roll damage for each target hit, which isn't really supported with Magic Missile since it isn't an AoE in that sense.

But a minimum of 22 thunder damage to every enemy until you choose to end Chaos Bolt stopping chaining, because you *choose* if it leaps to a new "target" which would start hitting friends seems far from intended. Of course I am not saying that you can't rule it that if you wild surge chaos bolt and get that result it can't do 22 thunder damage to every enemy, but there is far less support for that in the rules because it specified "damage" while the spell effect is for the most part damage independent. 

 

Edit: A specific edge case for a specific subclass for a specific spell shouldn't be used for intent. 

In my game, I've sort of altered chaos bolt to make it have a bit more of that mutation:

The spell works pretty much the same, but starts at 2d8 and scales 1d8 per level. In addition, the spell loses one damage dice each time it jumps to another target.

This increases the chance of jumping the higher you cast it, and creates the feel that it is losing energy the more it jumps. It also creates more options for choosing a damage type. The spell introduced in Xanathars has a 1/8 chance in jumping constantly, making it a 1/64 chance to jump twice. My rendition of the spell increases the chance for upcasting and decreases when jumping. Cast at 3rd level, the spell would deal 4d8 damage. It has a 3/8 chance of jumping to another target. If it does, the next bolt deals 3d8 damage and has a 1/4 chance of jumping. This would continue until the bolt does 1d8 and can't jump, losing its energy. 

In addition, many sorcerers have an ability that allows them to reroll or add damage dice. The constant influxing and altering of the spell's damage type can be taken advantage of by storm sorcerers and draconic bloodlines. Finally, this isn't even taking into account empowered spell, transmuted spell, twined spell, distant spell, and seeking spell, all of which can increase the range, attack rolls, and damage rolls to improve their odds. 

I don't know if this is overpowered or not. What do you guys think?

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

 

I would argue you aren't rolling d8s, you are maximizing the damage but not the roll and those are two different things. Chaos Bolt chaining is not dependent on damage. You can roll two 1s on a d8 doing 2 +1d6 damage, and it still chains. Similarly a maxed Chaos Bolt won't automatically do Thunder damage. 

Edit: For Example, getting an auto-crit from something like a helpless target isn't going to have Vorpal trigger unless you *actually* still roll the Nat 20. This is the same thing, you would do max damage, but you still need to roll to see if it chains, and what kind of damage it deals. 

 I suppose that’s true, though you could argue that reasoning is against the intention of Chaos Bolt in the first place. Crawford tweeted they specifically targeted the spell towards sorcerers because of their connection to chaotic energies. Plus, considering there’s only a 2% chance of rolling that option, and then afterwards there’s supposed to only be a 67% chance you hit with each attack, it seems like an unnecessary one given how unlikely this scenario is to do any major harm. You’re not wrong, I’d just argue that it’s against what it’s meant to be.

 
Crawford also said Magic Missile is one die roll, so every missile is that damage which...makes no sense for how the spell works, and arguably makes it awful because it's way too swingy for a first level spell. Crawford's random interpretation of "RAW for Magic Missile" which doesn't really have a basis due to the wording of the spell's effects. So his interpretations can subjectively be wrong because his basis of "RAW" is using the AoE spell rules which have Fireball and Lightning Bolt as examples of how you don't roll damage for each target hit, which isn't really supported with Magic Missile since it isn't an AoE in that sense.

But a minimum of 22 thunder damage to every enemy until you choose to end Chaos Bolt stopping chaining, because you *choose* if it leaps to a new "target" which would start hitting friends seems far from intended. Of course I am not saying that you can't rule it that if you wild surge chaos bolt and get that result it can't do 22 thunder damage to every enemy, but there is far less support for that in the rules because it specified "damage" while the spell effect is for the most part damage independent. 

Edit: A specific edge case for a specific subclass for a specific spell shouldn't be used for intent. 

Quote from Westonard >>

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

 

I would argue you aren't rolling d8s, you are maximizing the damage but not the roll and those are two different things. Chaos Bolt chaining is not dependent on damage. You can roll two 1s on a d8 doing 2 +1d6 damage, and it still chains. Similarly a maxed Chaos Bolt won't automatically do Thunder damage. 

Edit: For Example, getting an auto-crit from something like a helpless target isn't going to have Vorpal trigger unless you *actually* still roll the Nat 20. This is the same thing, you would do max damage, but you still need to roll to see if it chains, and what kind of damage it deals. 

 I suppose that’s true, though you could argue that reasoning is against the intention of Chaos Bolt in the first place. Crawford tweeted they specifically targeted the spell towards sorcerers because of their connection to chaotic energies. Plus, considering there’s only a 2% chance of rolling that option, and then afterwards there’s supposed to only be a 67% chance you hit with each attack, it seems like an unnecessary one given how unlikely this scenario is to do any major harm. You’re not wrong, I’d just argue that it’s against what it’s meant to be.

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

I would argue you aren't rolling d8s, you are maximizing the damage but not the roll and those are two different things. Chaos Bolt chaining is not dependent on damage. You can roll two 1s on a d8 doing 2 +1d6 damage, and it still chains. Similarly a maxed Chaos Bolt won't automatically do Thunder damage. 

Edit: For Example, getting an auto-crit from something like a helpless target isn't going to have Vorpal trigger unless you *actually* still roll the Nat 20. This is the same thing, you would do max damage, but you still need to roll to see if it chains, and what kind of damage it deals. 

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Can someone help me figure out Storm sorcerer? I want to play one so bad, but the idea of only being able to use so many features while in melee sounds like such a terrible idea for a class with a d6 hit dice. Plus, someone told me that the subclass isn't about melee, it's punishing those who get too close, and that's something I can't really wrap my head around when your best 'punish' feature comes at 14th level.

 It's really bad on it's own unfortunately because as you say, most of the features are melee. It's really best multiclassed with a Tempest Cleric for some much needed defense. Even a Storm Sorc X/Tempest 2 greatly increases survivability so that you can actually use the features. I play a Storm 10/Tempest 6 right now and I mostly stand on the front line crowd controlling by hurling everything away from me with Heart of the Storm (Storm) and Thunderbolt Strike (Tempest). Tempest' maximize damage also works great when combine with transmute metamagic. Overall, though I like the flavor it would be very difficult to play a pure storm sorcerer.

Can someone help me figure out Storm sorcerer? I want to play one so bad, but the idea of only being able to use so many features while in melee sounds like such a terrible idea for a class with a d6 hit dice. Plus, someone told me that the subclass isn't about melee, it's punishing those who get too close, and that's something I can't really wrap my head around when your best 'punish' feature comes at 14th level.

Quote from Valafar_Virtue >>

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

 I hadn't realized that. That's incredible, and it would  Thunder damage, and not much resists thar

Fun fact about Wild Magic sorcerer- Magic Surge #33-34 maximize the damage of your next damaging spell within 1 minute. Chaos Bolt qualifies, so if you cast Chaos Bolt next, all you need is to hit people and you auto-max damage everything you’re fighting, since the spell jumps every time you roll the same number on the d8s and you’re automatically rolling 8 on both of the die.

It seems like a lot of people forget that when Tides of Chaos isn’t available your DM can make you have a wild magic surge without rolling the funny die and if they do this you also get back your use of Tides of Chaos.

So if you and your DM agree to have the wild magic go off immediately after you use it you can use it many times a day and also trigger tons of wild magic surges.

Quote from Paladin_of_Pancakes >>

Am I the only one that thinks that twinned spell is overpowered? It literally doubles the damage of any attack spell, and if you cast shield, you can gain a +10 AC bonus at third level.

Twinned Spell

 When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).

~  Note the target requirements of Twinned Spell.  They prevent doubling a spell's affect on a single given target.  There is also the limitation of only one metamagic being used for a given spell unless that metamagic specifically says otherwise.  Empowered Spell & Seeking Spell meet this caveat. 

                                                                                                 -♪♫-  Ioseph de Guise  -♫♪-

I am playing a Gold Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer in an Eberron campaign currently. I was originally a forever DM, and this has been an exciting experience so far! Clockwork Soul was never too appealing for me, so I just chose DB because it gave me an excuse to have a Dragonmark. I’ve found the Mark of Passage to be the most appealing, because of the useful bonus to DEX, and its also quite cool to have all the teleportation spells. 

No, it's fine. Just wanted to clear it up. Sorcerers are quite possibly my favorite spellcaster, wizards annoy me that you need to learn spells before preparing them, and warlocks I usually use for multiclass builds. I'm glad that someone also plays sorcerer. Out of curiosity, what subclass and or campaign is it?

Nope. It’s just flavor. My DM just handed out at the start that my sorcerer’s ancestor was Metallic, (Part of my backstory) but as far as game mechanics wise they are completely identical in effect. Although certainly some damage types are more optimal than others.