So during last weeks game I saw someone hit a tank with heat metal and I Realized that spell is a glaring weakness for a tank (guardian build). Then it hit me that no self respecting artificer in game would allow himself to be taken out by a second level spell. So what are some ways as a player can the artificer get around this?
The main way I thought was having a rod of absorption but there has to be more other than relying on racials if the race gives resistance or immunity.
Armorer has Magic Missile as one of their subclass spells. Depending on how your DM runs the spell, that could force three concentration saves for the cost of one 1st level spell. Granted, the DM could also run that as a single concentration save. If you want to read four pages of debate on the topic you can see it here.
Alternately, Absorb Elements grants you a resistance against the triggering damage and empowers your next melee hit with 1d6 fire damage so you could hit back with a fire punch with a damage boost to force the concentration save DC a little bit higher.
Invisibility, or darkness maybe? Heat Metal only works on metal the caster can see.
You could have your armor made of something not metal, or try to disguise it as something that doesn't look like metal so a potential caster doesn't consider it metal and thus wouldn't bother attempting to cast Heat Metal. Both of those would require working with your DM on.
You're an armorer. You can already doff/don arcane armor as an action, thus removing the problem of Heat Metal. Not the best option as you'll be unarmored but they've just used an action, a spell slot and concentration.
Otherwise breaking their concentration is the way to go: magic missile, as Unclevertitle suggests. Or work as a team and have somebody else take them down.
Of course there are other schools of thought. You are the tank, right? Take the hit because every attack at you means one less at the squishy members of the party.
You can also get resistance against fire damage via the "Resistant Armor" infusion. That of course would require you to be prepared beforehand, but at least you're ready for fireballs, too.
Resistance armor is a great idea too especially with how common fire damage is.
its in my goal of making the ultimate tank build which to me the tank is more than hey hit me instead; its laughing off attack attempts so I’m trying to build good counters to all scenarios.
so far (also multi role as tank/back up healer;lv 15 mind you) I have plate with a shield. Personal infusions are: Improved weapons and defense, servant, resistance armor, leaving my helm and boots open for when situations call for. My fifth infusion I gave to wizard for mind sharpening.
attuned items are a +3 all purpose tool, a brooch of shielding and cloak of displacement. I decided I would rather have a lower AC in the 20’s but make them roll at disadvantage than a single roll that harder. The resistance armor took my 4th slot leaving an open 5th for when I need to activate either winged boots or boots of speed (infusions on stand by)
feats I took are: gift of the gem dragon, gift of the metallic dragon and a ASI of +2 for INT to get me to 20 before I had the manual get me to 22. At 16 I’m taking Shield Master to help with AOE damage and last feat will be Sentinel
i want to acquire a rod of absorption for the spells that target that don’t rely on AC saves plus to refuel my own spell slots.
So going over attack types I’m mostly covered with a AC of 22 (27 if I use wings 5 times a long reset) at disadvantage for melee and ranged. Shield master will take care if AOE save damage. Rod of Absorption will block other spells that are not AOE or target AC as long as it targets only me.
pretty much the only glaring weakness is heat metal (half damage is still unnecessary damage for the style tank I made) and rays/AOE till next level.
Ring of Resistance (fire) is also an item you could find. eats attunement but still..artificer. edit: also a few different feats apparently from some newer content i didn't know of
Although less than ideal, armorers can don or doff their Arcane Armor at the cost of an action. So, if breaking concentration on the caster isn't an option and the fire damage is an issue, they can always take if off.
I dont think it ever says that your guardian has to be made of metal. You could jsut say that it's made of some other material and you should be immmune to heat metal.
I dont think it ever says that your guardian has to be made of metal. You could jsut say that it's made of some other material and you should be immmune to heat metal.
If there are any armours that are not magical and not metal.That'd work. Which there are a few.
I don't think armorer has the same "non magical" restriction that Infusions have. (To wit, Infusions cannot be used with adamantine or mithral armours, due to them being classified as common magical item)
You're an Artificer. Take glassblowing or pottery tool's as one of your tool proficiencies. Then make a set of full plate out of glass or ceramic. Put the armor on, and make it your Arcane armor. Since it's magic, it will no longer be breakable by normal means, so it will have the same AC as if it was steel or iron.
It'll also look way cooler, and let's be honest, that's the important part. If you wanted to look lame you could be a fighter.
If you're that scared of Heat Metal then you don't have to wear any of the metal armor types as an Armorer Artificer. Just because you have proficiency with heavy armor doesn't mean you need to use it. Nor does anything within the armorer subclass say that the features only work with metal armor (it's just themed that way). Light Armor with high Dex is only slightly less AC than Heavy armor. This will likely mean you'll have to reduce your CON or some other ability score to have higher DEX, but that's the sacrifice you make if you're deadset on playing around a single spell (though technically things like Shocking Grasp, Lightning Bolt, etc. also have advantages against creatures wearing metal).
As mentioned, Armorer is already significantly better than any other metal-armor-wearing creature at fighting against Heat Metal since they can doff their armor as an action in a pinch. If you know for sure it's something you'll face, Resistant Armor Infusion will reduce the damage.
Artificers have no tools to prevent a spell being cast, like Counterspell or Silence. Armorer does eventually get Greater Invisibility, though by the time you're that level more enemies are more likely to have special senses ... and also if you're invisible you're not really being a "tank" because anything that requires sight will now being going at your party and not you.
As mentioned your best bet is to just break concentration by hitting the caster. Hypnotic Pattern or anything that causes the Incapacitate effect (Paralyze, Stun, etc) will also cause them to lose concentration. It's you get Heat Metal cast on you, call for help. No one is expected to have an answer for everything. This is a team game.
That's the best you can do without trying to fleece your DM by getting them to approve a non-metal set of fullplate, or cherry-picking specific magic items. If you DO get wrecked by Heat Metal in a battle, perhaps you can work with your DM to make it a character motivation to come up with a suitable non-metal replacement for an equivalent set of armor during the campaign.
I do agree that it would be up to the DM to determine if the arcane armor is considered magical, but it's not a stretch. The strongest tank armor in the world is made out of ceramic. Ancient armors where often made of wood or bamboo slats. And in a fantasy setting, there's no limit. Dragon scales, creature hides, etc.
Cast Prestidigitation, namely the "You chill, warm, or flavor up to 1 cubic foot of nonliving material for 1 hour."
It's says 1 cubic foot of... Not within 1 cubic foot.
That 144ft of material that can be chilled.
Or... A cubic foot of steel is 490ibs. Full plate armor including the leather and other bits is only 65ibs.
Idk. This might be too easy.
That's not how Prestidigitation works. A cantrip can never cancel out a leveled spell. Otherwise you could just hold a Prestidigitation to counter a Fireball from flying at your face, because you can make it just like a nice cool breeze.
I think the language missing from Prestidigitation is that you should only be able to chill/warm things that are either room temperature or already chilled/warmed. Otherwise, you could use it to make a stone bridge across a boiling lake of lava using nothing but a cantrip.
To debate, with the fire ball example, it wouldn't work because the damage coming from the fire ball being instant. Prestidigitation is an action not a reaction. Mind you could put out the fires that the fireball started by causing ignitions. The cantrip would not be canceling the Heat Metal spell, it would be fighting against it; a stalemate if you would. (don't forget the damage from HM is not direct, but a result of touching the heated item). (also the damage from Heat metal happens if the caster wants to, sacrificing their bonus action. Is there a way to prevent/consume the casters bonus action? The spell can be on the object, but if they can't use their bonus action to deal damage, it just makes the armor look red.)
To say that the language is missing is also saying that the RAW is wrong. lets avoid that. I do like using real life influenced to RAW, but we are talking magic here. it is not a simply 'if and then' like physics but also a 'this and that'. This spell does this and that spell does that. Heat Metal makes this item red hot, Prestidigitation chills that item.
The Lava lake is an interesting idea, if you could isolate 1 cubic foot of lava from the whole collective. Then again, you now have a foot of cooled lava rock, does it float or sink? break apart due to heat stress? would you have a cubic foot of obsidian (and sell for gold )? Could you chill a 3 x 1 cubic foot of cloth so it might not burn and lay it on the lava? maybe.
It has been commonly established that prestidigitation can be use in survival situations, like walking in cold or hot environments, to heat or chill clothing to fight off exhaustion.
Again, not a fight but a debate. That is one of the things that I love about the game (and RPGs in general) is that the rules are up to understanding and interpretation. Where whatever is decided is up to one person: The DM. The forum is just a good place to formulate a convincing argument.
Regarding the Prestidigitation debate, as a DM I would never allow it on a suit of armor, but I might allow it if the Heat Metal spell is being used on a weapon the target is holding, saying you cool down the hilt enough to where you can still hold onto the weapon without getting scorched...but you'd use your entire action to counter it.
So during last weeks game I saw someone hit a tank with heat metal and I Realized that spell is a glaring weakness for a tank (guardian build). Then it hit me that no self respecting artificer in game would allow himself to be taken out by a second level spell. So what are some ways as a player can the artificer get around this?
The main way I thought was having a rod of absorption but there has to be more other than relying on racials if the race gives resistance or immunity.
Break the caster's concentration.
Armorer has Magic Missile as one of their subclass spells. Depending on how your DM runs the spell, that could force three concentration saves for the cost of one 1st level spell. Granted, the DM could also run that as a single concentration save. If you want to read four pages of debate on the topic you can see it here.
Alternately, Absorb Elements grants you a resistance against the triggering damage and empowers your next melee hit with 1d6 fire damage so you could hit back with a fire punch with a damage boost to force the concentration save DC a little bit higher.
Those are great counters if cast; are there ways to completely shut down the casting?
Invisibility, or darkness maybe? Heat Metal only works on metal the caster can see.
You could have your armor made of something not metal, or try to disguise it as something that doesn't look like metal so a potential caster doesn't consider it metal and thus wouldn't bother attempting to cast Heat Metal. Both of those would require working with your DM on.
You're an armorer. You can already doff/don arcane armor as an action, thus removing the problem of Heat Metal. Not the best option as you'll be unarmored but they've just used an action, a spell slot and concentration.
Otherwise breaking their concentration is the way to go: magic missile, as Unclevertitle suggests. Or work as a team and have somebody else take them down.
Of course there are other schools of thought. You are the tank, right? Take the hit because every attack at you means one less at the squishy members of the party.
You can also get resistance against fire damage via the "Resistant Armor" infusion. That of course would require you to be prepared beforehand, but at least you're ready for fireballs, too.
Resistance armor is a great idea too especially with how common fire damage is.
its in my goal of making the ultimate tank build which to me the tank is more than hey hit me instead; its laughing off attack attempts so I’m trying to build good counters to all scenarios.
so far (also multi role as tank/back up healer;lv 15 mind you) I have plate with a shield. Personal infusions are: Improved weapons and defense, servant, resistance armor, leaving my helm and boots open for when situations call for. My fifth infusion I gave to wizard for mind sharpening.
attuned items are a +3 all purpose tool, a brooch of shielding and cloak of displacement. I decided I would rather have a lower AC in the 20’s but make them roll at disadvantage than a single roll that harder. The resistance armor took my 4th slot leaving an open 5th for when I need to activate either winged boots or boots of speed (infusions on stand by)
feats I took are: gift of the gem dragon, gift of the metallic dragon and a ASI of +2 for INT to get me to 20 before I had the manual get me to 22. At 16 I’m taking Shield Master to help with AOE damage and last feat will be Sentinel
i want to acquire a rod of absorption for the spells that target that don’t rely on AC saves plus to refuel my own spell slots.
So going over attack types I’m mostly covered with a AC of 22 (27 if I use wings 5 times a long reset) at disadvantage for melee and ranged. Shield master will take care if AOE save damage. Rod of Absorption will block other spells that are not AOE or target AC as long as it targets only me.
pretty much the only glaring weakness is heat metal (half damage is still unnecessary damage for the style tank I made) and rays/AOE till next level.
Ring of Resistance (fire) is also an item you could find. eats attunement but still..artificer. edit: also a few different feats apparently from some newer content i didn't know of
Although less than ideal, armorers can don or doff their Arcane Armor at the cost of an action. So, if breaking concentration on the caster isn't an option and the fire damage is an issue, they can always take if off.
I dont think it ever says that your guardian has to be made of metal. You could jsut say that it's made of some other material and you should be immmune to heat metal.
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If there are any armours that are not magical and not metal.That'd work. Which there are a few.
I don't think armorer has the same "non magical" restriction that Infusions have. (To wit, Infusions cannot be used with adamantine or mithral armours, due to them being classified as common magical item)
You're an Artificer. Take glassblowing or pottery tool's as one of your tool proficiencies. Then make a set of full plate out of glass or ceramic. Put the armor on, and make it your Arcane armor. Since it's magic, it will no longer be breakable by normal means, so it will have the same AC as if it was steel or iron.
It'll also look way cooler, and let's be honest, that's the important part. If you wanted to look lame you could be a fighter.
If you're that scared of Heat Metal then you don't have to wear any of the metal armor types as an Armorer Artificer. Just because you have proficiency with heavy armor doesn't mean you need to use it. Nor does anything within the armorer subclass say that the features only work with metal armor (it's just themed that way). Light Armor with high Dex is only slightly less AC than Heavy armor. This will likely mean you'll have to reduce your CON or some other ability score to have higher DEX, but that's the sacrifice you make if you're deadset on playing around a single spell (though technically things like Shocking Grasp, Lightning Bolt, etc. also have advantages against creatures wearing metal).
As mentioned, Armorer is already significantly better than any other metal-armor-wearing creature at fighting against Heat Metal since they can doff their armor as an action in a pinch. If you know for sure it's something you'll face, Resistant Armor Infusion will reduce the damage.
Artificers have no tools to prevent a spell being cast, like Counterspell or Silence. Armorer does eventually get Greater Invisibility, though by the time you're that level more enemies are more likely to have special senses ... and also if you're invisible you're not really being a "tank" because anything that requires sight will now being going at your party and not you.
As mentioned your best bet is to just break concentration by hitting the caster. Hypnotic Pattern or anything that causes the Incapacitate effect (Paralyze, Stun, etc) will also cause them to lose concentration. It's you get Heat Metal cast on you, call for help. No one is expected to have an answer for everything. This is a team game.
That's the best you can do without trying to fleece your DM by getting them to approve a non-metal set of fullplate, or cherry-picking specific magic items. If you DO get wrecked by Heat Metal in a battle, perhaps you can work with your DM to make it a character motivation to come up with a suitable non-metal replacement for an equivalent set of armor during the campaign.
I do agree that it would be up to the DM to determine if the arcane armor is considered magical, but it's not a stretch. The strongest tank armor in the world is made out of ceramic. Ancient armors where often made of wood or bamboo slats. And in a fantasy setting, there's no limit. Dragon scales, creature hides, etc.
Cast Prestidigitation, namely the "You chill, warm, or flavor up to 1 cubic foot of nonliving material for 1 hour."
It's says 1 cubic foot of... Not within 1 cubic foot.
That 144ft of material that can be chilled.
Or... A cubic foot of steel is 490ibs. Full plate armor including the leather and other bits is only 65ibs.
Idk. This might be too easy.
To debate, with the fire ball example, it wouldn't work because the damage coming from the fire ball being instant. Prestidigitation is an action not a reaction. Mind you could put out the fires that the fireball started by causing ignitions. The cantrip would not be canceling the Heat Metal spell, it would be fighting against it; a stalemate if you would. (don't forget the damage from HM is not direct, but a result of touching the heated item). (also the damage from Heat metal happens if the caster wants to, sacrificing their bonus action. Is there a way to prevent/consume the casters bonus action? The spell can be on the object, but if they can't use their bonus action to deal damage, it just makes the armor look red.)
To say that the language is missing is also saying that the RAW is wrong. lets avoid that. I do like using real life influenced to RAW, but we are talking magic here. it is not a simply 'if and then' like physics but also a 'this and that'. This spell does this and that spell does that. Heat Metal makes this item red hot, Prestidigitation chills that item.
The Lava lake is an interesting idea, if you could isolate 1 cubic foot of lava from the whole collective. Then again, you now have a foot of cooled lava rock, does it float or sink? break apart due to heat stress? would you have a cubic foot of obsidian (and sell for gold )? Could you chill a 3 x 1 cubic foot of cloth so it might not burn and lay it on the lava? maybe.
It has been commonly established that prestidigitation can be use in survival situations, like walking in cold or hot environments, to heat or chill clothing to fight off exhaustion.
Again, not a fight but a debate. That is one of the things that I love about the game (and RPGs in general) is that the rules are up to understanding and interpretation. Where whatever is decided is up to one person: The DM. The forum is just a good place to formulate a convincing argument.
Dispel Magic would also work.
Regarding the Prestidigitation debate, as a DM I would never allow it on a suit of armor, but I might allow it if the Heat Metal spell is being used on a weapon the target is holding, saying you cool down the hilt enough to where you can still hold onto the weapon without getting scorched...but you'd use your entire action to counter it.
Armor of fire resistance Is the way to go, but magic missile is a good option if needed.