How does one hit with the arcane propulsion arm and the thunder gauntlet at the same time in the same attack?
If the Arm wearing the guantlet hits an enemy, that enemy is hit by the gauntlet not the arm. If you take the gauntlet off and hit with the arm, the enemy is hit with the arm and not the gauntlet.
"On a hit" in a weapon's description means being hit... with the weapon. Not with some other weapon.
If you infuse Arcane Propulsion Armor into Guardian armor, both of the following rules happen simultaneously:
The armor includes gauntlets, each of which is a magic melee weapon that can be wielded only when the hand is holding nothing. The wearer is proficient with the gauntlets, and each one deals 1d8 force damage on a hit and has the thrown property, with a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet. When thrown, the gauntlet detaches and flies at the attack's target, then im mediately returns to the wearer and reattaches.
Each of the armor's gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon while you aren't holding anything in it, and it deals 1d8 thunder damage on a hit. A creature hit by the gauntlet has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than you until the start of your next turn, as the ar mor magically emits a distracting pulse when the creature attacks someone else.
These will then try to resolve at the same time. Except for the damage type, this is fine - all of the other rules stack without issue. However, the Guardian rule says they deal 1d8 thunder, and the Arcane Propulsion rule says they deal 1d8 force - neither is additive, and there are no generic rules for figuring out which rule takes precedence. You have to ask your GM to rule on the damage type (the amount is 1d8 - the two rules try to replace the damage without adding anything). Note that if you do this, Arcane Propulsion explicitly makes the gauntlets magical, so you can't then infuse the gauntlets.
I don't think that in RAW you can stack Arcane Propulsion Armor and Thunder Gauntlets in terms of combining their bonus effects; while they're technically the same gauntlets, you essentially have two different weapons to choose from, each with their own separate effects. In a way it's similar to having an item that enables you to have both a dagger and a longsword held in the same hand; on its own that wouldn't enable you to attack with both in a single attack, but it does enable you to use whichever weapon you want each time.
As for the other issue (can you also apply a gauntlet infusion) I'd say no for two reasons; first is that while Armor Modifications lets you apply Arcane Propulsion Armor to the "chest" part, the infusion itself also explicitly applies to the gauntlets, and an infusion seems the more specific rule in that case, so you're arguably applying an infusion to both the chest and gauntlets. The second reason is that Arcane Propulsion Armor makes the gauntlets a magic weapon as standard (not only when your hands are empty) which prevents a second infusion as well.
If I were DM'ing I'd probably allow the gauntlet combo anyway by rule-of-cool, as I don't think it's particular overpowered. For a Guardian Armorer you're not receiving much other benefit from Arcane Propulsion Armor anyway, since Arcane Armor provides most of the other features already, the only other thing you get out of it is an extra 5 feet of speed. So alotgether you're sacrificing two infusions slots on your armour for a small speed boost, and the ability to "throw" your Thunder Gauntlets and optionally swap the damage type, which seems fair to me.
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If you infuse Arcane Propulsion Armor into Guardian armor, both of the following rules happen simultaneously:
The armor includes gauntlets, each of which is a magic melee weapon that can be wielded only when the hand is holding nothing. The wearer is proficient with the gauntlets, and each one deals 1d8 force damage on a hit and has the thrown property, with a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet. When thrown, the gauntlet detaches and flies at the attack's target, then im mediately returns to the wearer and reattaches.
Each of the armor's gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon while you aren't holding anything in it, and it deals 1d8 thunder damage on a hit. A creature hit by the gauntlet has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than you until the start of your next turn, as the ar mor magically emits a distracting pulse when the creature attacks someone else.
These will then try to resolve at the same time. Except for the damage type, this is fine - all of the other rules stack without issue. However, the Guardian rule says they deal 1d8 thunder, and the Arcane Propulsion rule says they deal 1d8 force - neither is additive, and there are no generic rules for figuring out which rule takes precedence. You have to ask your GM to rule on the damage type (the amount is 1d8 - the two rules try to replace the damage without adding anything). Note that if you do this, Arcane Propulsion explicitly makes the gauntlets magical, so you can't then infuse the gauntlets.
This is how you enchant and infuse your propulsion arm infusion, yes 2 magics on 1 item it supposed to not be possible but it works.
At lv 14 get new armor infuse it with Propulsion Arm Infusion
here is the trick NOW put it on and arcane armor it
the entire armor has the propulsion Arm infusion but your Lv9 feat allows you to count your special weapons "the thunder gauntlets" as individual armor component items
now you can enchant each as simple melee weapons
i Love Armorer, Glad to build others Artificer Armorers i cant get enough.
No, that's cheating. The L9 ability counts the gauntlets as separate, it doesn't let you infuse an already magical item.
The thunder gauntlets are melee weapons, whereas the arcane repulsion gauntlets are ranged. You would have to roll their respective damage depending on whether you are making a melee attack or a ranged attack. I am not sure how you could infuse the Armorer's gauntlets to be repulsion gauntlets if they are already considered pieces of magical arcane armor. However, you can infuse your arcane armor with other magical properties at level 9, so you could be able to stack the damage of the thunder and force damage on melee attacks.
So, you made a lvl 15 Armorer for a campaign. Woops, Perfected Armor dosen't get rid of the restrictions of armor mode, effectively halving your subclass features.. and folks get excited about this? Anyways.
You have ... Studded Leather Armor, for example. Boom. It's now grown over your body, replacing lost limbs and becoming your 2nd skin. Unsure if you were wearing boots of elvenkind, they would take up an infusion slot. No winged boots infusion on your boots of elvenkind. That'd make too much sense you op monster.
Anyways - You apply +2 to your armors weapons. Bazinga.
You apply winged boots to your boots. Sweet!
You.. dont care about your helmet atm. You have a helmet anyway, that you can play with w your BA..? Implies room for helm+helm infusion shenanigans, just rule 1 helm.
Chest - Arcane Propulsion Infusion Duh! It's like, The, Armorer infusion. You now have 1d8thunder/1d8force+2+5 melee weapons w the thrown property. They hit? They inflict disadvantage as nowhere does it say melee range attack or melee hit.
Take off the arcane armor, apply arcane propulsion armor, apply +2 weapons, winged boots. RAW - Everything works. Haters gonna hate, but the class was designed to have ranged disadvantage at this lvl. See Infiltrator mode from Perfected Armor.
Either APA was designed for other sub classes to have a quasi armorer feel or it can be run in two different ways for the armorer as an upgrade to arcane armor: one You can mix them and still have the effect of thunder gauntlets (provoke is how i dub it) at range but 1d8 force dmg and 1d8 thunder at melee or fuse both dmg and increase ur dps. keep in mind this is a lvl 14 Infusion pretty late game so it can be considered an upgrade for armorer if it was meant for it.
In the end Artificer will need like two pages on errata when the next one comes out to confirm or deny many probability theories we have and want to be real. Either way its how u sell it to your DM as a rule of cool, its not a broken strong combo at high lvl, just COOL.
It will work. Although the Arcane armor is considered a spell focus for the artificer, it plainly states you can apply infusions to your own armor. when you get the separate pieces going as long as no infusions overlap they all apply. DM discretion if they are comfortable with it of course but it does work.
Unless I'm missing something the whole point is moot. Per the DMG:
Use common sense to determine whether more than one of a given kind of magic item can be worn. A character can’t normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, and one cloak.
So you're 3rd level Arcane Armor, "expands to cover your entire body." Which would include your hands, so... gauntlets. Also stated in the Thunder Gauntlets feature: "Each of the armor's gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon."
At 9th level, "That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Items feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor's special weapon." You're still wearing gauntlets.
And the infusion says, "The wearer of this armor gains these benefits: [...] The armor includes gauntlets." So when you place the infusion, it created gauntlets. But you can't wear more than one pair of gauntlets. So you cannot wear the Arcane Armor and the infused armor at the same time as that would require you to wear two pairs of gauntlets at the same time. Which the rules say you can't/logically shouldn't.
The way this stacks is tricky. Due to the wording of Arcane Armor, and Artificer infusions, you have to set this up in a specific way.
1. Create (or find) The Arcane Propulsion armor.
2. Take off what current armor you have equipped, and equip Arcane Propuslion armor. (Requires attunement)
3. Put smiths tools in hand and spend an action to make the Arcane Propulsion armor into your Arcane Armor. Due to the wording in Tasha's guide, this doesn't count as an infusion, thus allowing you to make the Arcane Propulsion armor into your Arcane artficer armor.
4. GO NUTS WITH INFUSIONS (after level 9 armorer) Taken directly from Tasha's guide:
ARMOR MODIFICATIONS: you learn to use your artficer infusions to specially modify your arcane armor. That armor now counts as seperate items for the purposes of your infuse items feature: Armor (chest peice), Boots, Helmet, and the Armor's special weapon. Each of those items can bear one of your infusions and the infusions transfer over if you change your armor's model with the Armor model feature. In addition, the maximum number of items you can infuse at once increases by 2, but those extra items must be a part of your arcane armor.
4 CONT- For rules for fairness, I would say that the Arcane propulsion Armor should count as either the chest peice infusion OR the Gauntlet infusion as descibed above. Depending on the Dm's Discretion, and how the player wants to attack.
If you agree with the gauntlet infusion, I would say then the arcane propulsion armor adds its effects to your defender/infiltrator weapons thus preventing players from adding radiant weapon or the +1 (or+2) weapon.
If you agree with the chest peice infusion, I would reccomend that the Arcane propulsion armor's magical gauntlets be an addtional choice for a weapon type to go into battle. To elaborate: the optional armor weapons would be infiltrator (lightning gauntlets), defender (thunder gauntlets), or Arcane Propulsion armor gauntlets.
You don't need to debate over the type of infusion, APA is an armor infusion, and Arcane Armor specifies "Armor, Boots, Helmet and Weapon" as the 4 types of infusion it can take, APA will take the Armor one always.
If you infuse Armor with APA, specifically the gauntlets become a magical weapon. You cannot infuse an already magic item. If you try to infuse "the armor's special weapon" with enhanced weapon, when in guardian mode, you would not be able to, the weapon is gauntlets, and your gauntlets are already magical, despite not being infused themselves. In infiltrator mode, you could infuse your "gemlike node" with enhanced weapon, while infusing the armor chest with APA, since APA doesn't turn gemlike nodes into magical weapons, it turns gauntlets.
These exclusions would apply consistently with any other magical gauntlets. If you had gauntlets of ogre power, they would function as magical weapons if you infused your armor with APA. If you just had GoOP and no APA, with your arcane armor, they would function as thunder gauntlets, but couldn't be infused with enhance weapon.
So 2/3 work together, not all 3. AA and APA stack but are mostly redundant since I don't believe that the damage types/dice will combine, as each say "deals" nothing about anything additional, but there's no specific ruling, its just a small contradiction, because they're each a weapon for 2 reasons. And the additional effects are distinguished from the damage types, so those should combine.
I have no idea which of my posts in this thread you're replying to, the system doesn't tell me. But my stance hasn't changed. You can't shrinkwrap an axe on the end of your sword, then roll a single attack with the damage dice and benefits of both weapons. If you're fluffing your armor as havinbg "one of each", then you choose which fist you're punching with on any given attack. Once again, this is exactly the same as wielding two different magic weapons, one in each hand. You pick which one you attack with.
This is also why Wizards are utter cowards for turning the Arcane Propulsion Arm into the Arcane Propulsion Armor. This wouldn't be an issue at all if you were applying the APA effect to your prosthetic limb instead of your gauntlet. Want a rocket punch? Time to get your Cyberpunk on and go in for some cybermantic upgrades, replace that fallible flesh with enchanted wood, stone, steel and/or bone.
Arcane Propulsion Armor "APA" It's a full set of enchantments, the gauntlets specifically are a magical weapon enchantment dealing 1D8 Force dmg and provides the thrown property with a return function built in.
Guardian Armor Gauntlets "GAG" are a non magical simple weapon dealing 1d8 thunder damage and is applied automatically to whatever Armor you are using. The APA and other enchantments are specified as being applicable to all individual pieces of the Armor including the specialty weapons.
Since on is a non-magical simple weapon. The other is a magical enchantment, both have the same requirements word for word, and it's specified it can be applied. THEY STACK AS WRITTEN. If the DM feels that is broken I would never argue with or fault them for limiting it to one or the other, thats between them and the player and is a fair compromiseto ask if they feel it would anbalance their campaign.
However! I can bypass that idiocy by simply getting adamantine gear, and bam 2d8 thunder every hit for 5 hits, immunity to crits, and I'd still be able to apply all the other infusions I want including the infusion to keep focus even on a failed save. That infusion has to be sacrificed for APA by the way... so APA is less dangerous all around and a little more versatile im the same breath.
Only thing I'm scared of is a DM who let's you grab APA to stack and still gives you adamantine... 20d8 is daunting and a DM who can balance that deserves respect and the fear of players.
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How does one hit with the arcane propulsion arm and the thunder gauntlet at the same time in the same attack?
If the Arm wearing the guantlet hits an enemy, that enemy is hit by the gauntlet not the arm. If you take the gauntlet off and hit with the arm, the enemy is hit with the arm and not the gauntlet.
"On a hit" in a weapon's description means being hit... with the weapon. Not with some other weapon.
If you infuse Arcane Propulsion Armor into Guardian armor, both of the following rules happen simultaneously:
The armor includes gauntlets, each of which is
a magic melee weapon that can be wielded only
when the hand is holding nothing. The wearer is
proficient with the gauntlets, and each one deals
1d8 force damage on a hit and has the thrown
property, with a normal range of 20 feet and a
long range of 60 feet. When thrown, the gauntlet
detaches and flies at the attack's target, then im
mediately returns to the wearer and reattaches.
Each of the armor's gauntlets
counts as a simple melee weapon while you aren't
holding anything in it, and it deals 1d8 thunder
damage on a hit. A creature hit by the gauntlet has
disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other
than you until the start of your next turn, as the ar
mor magically emits a distracting pulse when the
creature attacks someone else.
These will then try to resolve at the same time. Except for the damage type, this is fine - all of the other rules stack without issue. However, the Guardian rule says they deal 1d8 thunder, and the Arcane Propulsion rule says they deal 1d8 force - neither is additive, and there are no generic rules for figuring out which rule takes precedence. You have to ask your GM to rule on the damage type (the amount is 1d8 - the two rules try to replace the damage without adding anything). Note that if you do this, Arcane Propulsion explicitly makes the gauntlets magical, so you can't then infuse the gauntlets.
I don't think that in RAW you can stack Arcane Propulsion Armor and Thunder Gauntlets in terms of combining their bonus effects; while they're technically the same gauntlets, you essentially have two different weapons to choose from, each with their own separate effects. In a way it's similar to having an item that enables you to have both a dagger and a longsword held in the same hand; on its own that wouldn't enable you to attack with both in a single attack, but it does enable you to use whichever weapon you want each time.
As for the other issue (can you also apply a gauntlet infusion) I'd say no for two reasons; first is that while Armor Modifications lets you apply Arcane Propulsion Armor to the "chest" part, the infusion itself also explicitly applies to the gauntlets, and an infusion seems the more specific rule in that case, so you're arguably applying an infusion to both the chest and gauntlets. The second reason is that Arcane Propulsion Armor makes the gauntlets a magic weapon as standard (not only when your hands are empty) which prevents a second infusion as well.
If I were DM'ing I'd probably allow the gauntlet combo anyway by rule-of-cool, as I don't think it's particular overpowered. For a Guardian Armorer you're not receiving much other benefit from Arcane Propulsion Armor anyway, since Arcane Armor provides most of the other features already, the only other thing you get out of it is an extra 5 feet of speed. So alotgether you're sacrificing two infusions slots on your armour for a small speed boost, and the ability to "throw" your Thunder Gauntlets and optionally swap the damage type, which seems fair to me.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
No, that's cheating. The L9 ability counts the gauntlets as separate, it doesn't let you infuse an already magical item.
The thunder gauntlets are melee weapons, whereas the arcane repulsion gauntlets are ranged. You would have to roll their respective damage depending on whether you are making a melee attack or a ranged attack. I am not sure how you could infuse the Armorer's gauntlets to be repulsion gauntlets if they are already considered pieces of magical arcane armor. However, you can infuse your arcane armor with other magical properties at level 9, so you could be able to stack the damage of the thunder and force damage on melee attacks.
Arcane Propulsion Gauntlets are a magic melee weapon with the Thrown property.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So, you made a lvl 15 Armorer for a campaign. Woops, Perfected Armor dosen't get rid of the restrictions of armor mode, effectively halving your subclass features.. and folks get excited about this? Anyways.
You have ... Studded Leather Armor, for example. Boom. It's now grown over your body, replacing lost limbs and becoming your 2nd skin. Unsure if you were wearing boots of elvenkind, they would take up an infusion slot. No winged boots infusion on your boots of elvenkind. That'd make too much sense you op monster.
Anyways - You apply +2 to your armors weapons. Bazinga.
You apply winged boots to your boots. Sweet!
You.. dont care about your helmet atm. You have a helmet anyway, that you can play with w your BA..? Implies room for helm+helm infusion shenanigans, just rule 1 helm.
Chest - Arcane Propulsion Infusion Duh! It's like, The, Armorer infusion. You now have 1d8thunder/1d8force+2+5 melee weapons w the thrown property. They hit? They inflict disadvantage as nowhere does it say melee range attack or melee hit.
Take off the arcane armor, apply arcane propulsion armor, apply +2 weapons, winged boots. RAW - Everything works. Haters gonna hate, but the class was designed to have ranged disadvantage at this lvl. See Infiltrator mode from Perfected Armor.
*Greater Invis flyby
Either APA was designed for other sub classes to have a quasi armorer feel or it can be run in two different ways for the armorer as an upgrade to arcane armor: one You can mix them and still have the effect of thunder gauntlets (provoke is how i dub it) at range but 1d8 force dmg and 1d8 thunder at melee or fuse both dmg and increase ur dps. keep in mind this is a lvl 14 Infusion pretty late game so it can be considered an upgrade for armorer if it was meant for it.
In the end Artificer will need like two pages on errata when the next one comes out to confirm or deny many probability theories we have and want to be real. Either way its how u sell it to your DM as a rule of cool, its not a broken strong combo at high lvl, just COOL.
It will work. Although the Arcane armor is considered a spell focus for the artificer, it plainly states you can apply infusions to your own armor. when you get the separate pieces going as long as no infusions overlap they all apply. DM discretion if they are comfortable with it of course but it does work.
Unless I'm missing something the whole point is moot. Per the DMG:
So you're 3rd level Arcane Armor, "expands to cover your entire body." Which would include your hands, so... gauntlets. Also stated in the Thunder Gauntlets feature: "Each of the armor's gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon."
At 9th level, "That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Items feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor's special weapon." You're still wearing gauntlets.
And the infusion says, "The wearer of this armor gains these benefits: [...] The armor includes gauntlets." So when you place the infusion, it created gauntlets. But you can't wear more than one pair of gauntlets. So you cannot wear the Arcane Armor and the infused armor at the same time as that would require you to wear two pairs of gauntlets at the same time. Which the rules say you can't/logically shouldn't.
The way this stacks is tricky. Due to the wording of Arcane Armor, and Artificer infusions, you have to set this up in a specific way.
1. Create (or find) The Arcane Propulsion armor.
2. Take off what current armor you have equipped, and equip Arcane Propuslion armor. (Requires attunement)
3. Put smiths tools in hand and spend an action to make the Arcane Propulsion armor into your Arcane Armor. Due to the wording in Tasha's guide, this doesn't count as an infusion, thus allowing you to make the Arcane Propulsion armor into your Arcane artficer armor.
4. GO NUTS WITH INFUSIONS (after level 9 armorer) Taken directly from Tasha's guide:
ARMOR MODIFICATIONS: you learn to use your artficer infusions to specially modify your arcane armor. That armor now counts as seperate items for the purposes of your infuse items feature: Armor (chest peice), Boots, Helmet, and the Armor's special weapon. Each of those items can bear one of your infusions and the infusions transfer over if you change your armor's model with the Armor model feature. In addition, the maximum number of items you can infuse at once increases by 2, but those extra items must be a part of your arcane armor.
4 CONT- For rules for fairness, I would say that the Arcane propulsion Armor should count as either the chest peice infusion OR the Gauntlet infusion as descibed above. Depending on the Dm's Discretion, and how the player wants to attack.
If you agree with the gauntlet infusion, I would say then the arcane propulsion armor adds its effects to your defender/infiltrator weapons thus preventing players from adding radiant weapon or the +1 (or+2) weapon.
If you agree with the chest peice infusion, I would reccomend that the Arcane propulsion armor's magical gauntlets be an addtional choice for a weapon type to go into battle. To elaborate: the optional armor weapons would be infiltrator (lightning gauntlets), defender (thunder gauntlets), or Arcane Propulsion armor gauntlets.
Hope this helps!
What if I say I’m wearing one of each?
You don't need to debate over the type of infusion, APA is an armor infusion, and Arcane Armor specifies "Armor, Boots, Helmet and Weapon" as the 4 types of infusion it can take, APA will take the Armor one always.
If you infuse Armor with APA, specifically the gauntlets become a magical weapon. You cannot infuse an already magic item. If you try to infuse "the armor's special weapon" with enhanced weapon, when in guardian mode, you would not be able to, the weapon is gauntlets, and your gauntlets are already magical, despite not being infused themselves. In infiltrator mode, you could infuse your "gemlike node" with enhanced weapon, while infusing the armor chest with APA, since APA doesn't turn gemlike nodes into magical weapons, it turns gauntlets.
These exclusions would apply consistently with any other magical gauntlets. If you had gauntlets of ogre power, they would function as magical weapons if you infused your armor with APA. If you just had GoOP and no APA, with your arcane armor, they would function as thunder gauntlets, but couldn't be infused with enhance weapon.
So 2/3 work together, not all 3. AA and APA stack but are mostly redundant since I don't believe that the damage types/dice will combine, as each say "deals" nothing about anything additional, but there's no specific ruling, its just a small contradiction, because they're each a weapon for 2 reasons. And the additional effects are distinguished from the damage types, so those should combine.
I have no idea which of my posts in this thread you're replying to, the system doesn't tell me. But my stance hasn't changed. You can't shrinkwrap an axe on the end of your sword, then roll a single attack with the damage dice and benefits of both weapons. If you're fluffing your armor as havinbg "one of each", then you choose which fist you're punching with on any given attack. Once again, this is exactly the same as wielding two different magic weapons, one in each hand. You pick which one you attack with.
This is also why Wizards are utter cowards for turning the Arcane Propulsion Arm into the Arcane Propulsion Armor. This wouldn't be an issue at all if you were applying the APA effect to your prosthetic limb instead of your gauntlet. Want a rocket punch? Time to get your Cyberpunk on and go in for some cybermantic upgrades, replace that fallible flesh with enchanted wood, stone, steel and/or bone.
Please do not contact or message me.
Being an armor allows you to separate the parts so the weapon infusions would be on the gauntlets
Irrelevant, the effects don't stack.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Arcane Propulsion Armor "APA" It's a full set of enchantments, the gauntlets specifically are a magical weapon enchantment dealing 1D8 Force dmg and provides the thrown property with a return function built in.
Guardian Armor Gauntlets "GAG" are a non magical simple weapon dealing 1d8 thunder damage and is applied automatically to whatever Armor you are using. The APA and other enchantments are specified as being applicable to all individual pieces of the Armor including the specialty weapons.
Since on is a non-magical simple weapon. The other is a magical enchantment, both have the same requirements word for word, and it's specified it can be applied. THEY STACK AS WRITTEN. If the DM feels that is broken I would never argue with or fault them for limiting it to one or the other, thats between them and the player and is a fair compromiseto ask if they feel it would anbalance their campaign.
However! I can bypass that idiocy by simply getting adamantine gear, and bam 2d8 thunder every hit for 5 hits, immunity to crits, and I'd still be able to apply all the other infusions I want including the infusion to keep focus even on a failed save. That infusion has to be sacrificed for APA by the way... so APA is less dangerous all around and a little more versatile im the same breath.
Only thing I'm scared of is a DM who let's you grab APA to stack and still gives you adamantine... 20d8 is daunting and a DM who can balance that deserves respect and the fear of players.