I'm curious! My character's experimental elixirs don't come into play very often in our game, especially in combat. When I hand them out to our party, no one takes them ahead of time because of their short duration. Then, by the time we realize we need them, everyone has other uses for their action.
Out of combat, it's not so bad, but some of the elixirs are clearly designed for in-combat use.
Any tips for getting more out of them? My GM isn't open to house-ruling that elixirs take a bonus action to consume.
I personally don't care much for that particularly ability of the alchemist subclass. A few of the potions are useful or marginally useful but some of them require the right timing. And nothing says you actually know what these experimental concoctions do when you create them. Though thankfully nothing says you don't either though the feel of the ability gives me the impression that not knowing what the random ones do is implied since you can only control the extra's. But the extra's also cost precious spell slots and all you really get is control over picks that either mediocre or have lessening return as you get higher level and the effects that you get out of it don't improve over time which would suggest increasing skill as you level. It also barely interacts with or stacks with any other alchemist class ability despite the fact that some of them might do similar things such as healing. The only one being the level 9 ability and that's only some temporary hitpoints and while it's at least potentially a decent amount as far as not higher spell level temporary hitpoints goes, I don't entirely care for temporary hitpoints myself.
I am trying to make the most out of this sub-class as I can, so I am using Experimental Elixirs a lot. The good thing about them is that they're level one buffs without concentration, so boldness goes a long way on allies. I just hit level 9, and I was debating on dipping into life cleric and getting some extra healing, but I flipped a d2 and decided to stick with the main Alchemist path.
I'm glad I did, because restorative reagents boosts the effect healing dramatically. If you use an action to healing elixir, and then healing word for a bonus action, you are dipping into your flat int mod four times.
Healing Elixir - 2d4+5
Restorative Reagents - 2d6+5
Healing Word - 1d4+5+5
That is a ton of health per round, like 30 to 40ish.
The House Rules we play with to help (because Alchemist needs it)
1. Potions/elixirs as bonus action
2. My DM also allows me to administer elixirs/potions via telekinetic mage hand to allies as a main action
3. We also allow the upcasting of elixirs with higher spell slots to generate more elixirs per spell slot (that was a dumb oversight by WotC imo)
Since these elixirs have no concentration, we can almost have a pseudo double concentration combos. Like chug a Flight Elixir and take off then combo it with a flaming sphere. Faerie Fire and Boldness your party, and they can decimate bosses for you.
Half of them (Healing, Resilience and Boldness) are very easy to use, so it partly comes down to giving them to those most likely to need/use them. There's always the possibility they'll go to waste if an adventuring day doesn't involve much if any combat, but I wouldn't count that against the feature. I'd say that Resilience and Boldness aren't intended to be used in combat as such, but rather just before a combat you know you're going into, so it can be a good thing to knock back in a surprise round, or right before springing an ambush or such. Healing can be used like another healing potion; either slug it between combats to get back some HP, or save it for when someone goes down (as getting an ally up is usually worth more than the HP you gain).
The other three are a bit trickier; Flight is great if you encounter an obstacle, and can make it super easy for a Rogue to infiltrate even very well fortified locations. Transformation is a free casting of Alter Self which is great, but it's going to depend a lot on your party and what you're doing whether you'll use it or not; it's not a bad candidate for burning a spell slot on though if you know you'll be going underwater or doing some social stealth later, as a first level slot for a 2nd level spell isn't a bad deal at all, and anybody can use it. Swiftness is the one that can be hardest to find a use for; good for a foot chase, maybe for a scout or a Monk, but it really depends how good your DM is at giving opportunities to capitalise on speed.
Overall I do think the feature is unfairly maligned; they're free potions, and you should be able to get use out of most of them, though I do wish later Alchemist levels gave the option of letting you pick one of your elixirs after rolling (once you get multiple rolls). I mean really what I want is a huge, detailed alchemy system, but we were never going to get one that would satisfy me (see my WIP Gunfighter sub-class for an idea of what I like).
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Character - Alchemist Chef. Experimental elixirs have form of food. She just makes them for party in every ocasion and in half of the time is just for fun (make people fly or change theyr look). She describes them in RP very tasty so everybody wants them even when they dont know what will happen. Other spells and ability takes form of food, making a RP rich character.
Even weapons are cook utensils (kitchen knife, pan, wok for armor, dumpling launcher atc.)
Like chug a Flight Elixir and take off then combo it with a flaming sphere.
I gave my whole party Flight Elixers, I was the only one who drank one. So I flew around running things over with my remote control incendiary device and scoffing at their poor life choices as they had to actually fight things down there.
If you knew what the elixirs were before use. But per RAW you don't know what they are until used or unless you spend the spell slot or time for Identify.
If you knew what the elixirs were before use. But per RAW you don't know what they are until used or unless you spend the spell slot or time for Identify.
Experimental Elixir:
Beginning at 3rd level, whenever you finish a long rest, you can magically produce an experimental elixir in an empty flask you touch. Roll on the Experimental Elixir table for the elixir's effect, which is triggered when someone drinks the elixir. As an action, a creature can drink the elixir or administer it to an incapacitated creature.
Nothing in RAW states explicitly when you roll on the table. It only states that you create the elixir when you finish a long rest and the elixir's effect takes place when drunk. There's nothing that indicates you wait until drinking to roll on the table, nor is there anything that states you don't know what the elixir is until it takes effect, granted there's nothing that says the opposite either.
The natural assumption I had when reading it was that you roll when you create the elixir (since this makes the most sense and makes the feature at least somewhat usable) and the alchemist knows what the elixir does once they've made it. (A character knowing how their class feature works is typically the norm, though that's not really stated anywhere I know of either)
If for some reason your DM rules that you don't know what the elixir does there are game mechanics built in to D&D that can help you figure it out before actually using the elixir.
The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does.
Alternately, identifying what a substance is/does with an alchemists tools check seems perfectly reasonable to me.
It also stands to reason that even if you didn't know what an elixir did the first time you created it you'd be able to recognize it by color/taste/smell etc when you end up accidentally creating it again via the Experimental Elixir feature. Then all your character needs to do is remember what this specific fluid did the last time it was created then drunk. There are only 6 options after all, assuming your Alchemist survives for 7 long rests after reaching level three they're going to begin seeing repeat elixirs. They'd eventually figure it out.
One great tool I use for my Alchemist is Artificer Infusions to get the Homunculus Servant and a Bag of Holding. This allows my character to make a bunch of the Elixirs (I don't use first level spell slots for anything else), place them all in the bag of holding, and then have my Homunculus Servant (usually invisible with the invisibility spell) fly around applying the Elixirs. This means that I am burning my bonus action each turn to issue the command Use Item, but I can use my action to cast Cure Wounds through the Homunculus Servant via the Channel Magic reaction AND get the Restorative Agents as well; a pretty sweet combo that makes the Alchemist quite a bit more useful even without house rules!
I/Hjalmar remembers after every long rest and diligently rolls for them everytime and dutifully hand them out straight away to party members... but they NEVER use them. I've gotten the impression over the years that they feel their action economy is too important to them and must attack/cast spells during initiative. There has been some mockery for "wasted turns" in the past when either not dealing enough damage (leading to a fellow PC getting hit or dropping) or not doing an epic or clutch enough action, instead expecting the healer to use their turn to heal or buff. It sucks because I'd love to be able to be creative more often. My often employed tactic of casting a contraption spell, then next round casting Sanctuary and using the help action for advantage for others was mocked and gained lots of "tsch tsch" head shakes until they saw how beneficial it was (for them). Sometimes they look at their inventory and find they have written one down that I gave them and then get bummed that it disappeared days ago, "then why'd you give it to me/why didn't you tell me".
tl,dr: wasting an action gulping a potion is beyond my party.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
In their defense, the potions beyond tier 1 aren’t worth the action. The only exception is the out of combat use of a potion of healing. And in combat only if you’ve got a setup for it.
The elixirs are equivalent to a 1 level spell.
The elixirs don’t scale with level / tier.
The elixirs are random.
The elixirs define the sub-class and are the absolute worst option of all the artificer sub-classes.
... and are the absolute worst option of all the artificer sub-classes.
I gotta say, and I've entered this battle enough on this forum, I respectfully and energetically disagree.
However, completely agree with the scaling of the elixirs. But a healing potion is a healing potion when you've reached low double digits, and a bless is just as clutch when you're failing a save over again. :)
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
... and are the absolute worst option of all the artificer sub-classes.
I gotta say, and I've entered this battle enough on this forum, I respectfully and energetically disagree.
However, completely agree with the scaling of the elixirs. But a healing potion is a healing potion when you've reached low double digits, and a bless is just as clutch when you're failing a save over again. :)
If you actually want to argue the merits and flaws of artificer alchemist sub-class abilities.
The two things I think really break the alchemist:
The lack of scaling. Adding temp HP is not scaling. Especially with all the new subclasses and other ways to add temp hp. With quiet a few being adding temp HP to more than character, or in mass, or both (twilight cleric). Have the elixirs actually get better. It doesn't even have to be every level but have them get better by tier of play.
The second is the whole 'random'. The sub-class only makes 6 elixirs. After a few days how is making the same things again and again experimental? Let the players choose which elixir.
The other thing I'd do is allow the alchemist to use an action to activate an elixir on another character in range. That's easy enough to flavor. Anything from an injection to a spray - let the players come us with the flavor.
... and are the absolute worst option of all the artificer sub-classes.
I gotta say, and I've entered this battle enough on this forum, I respectfully and energetically disagree.
However, completely agree with the scaling of the elixirs. But a healing potion is a healing potion when you've reached low double digits, and a bless is just as clutch when you're failing a save over again. :)
If you actually want to argue the merits and flaws of artificer alchemist sub-class abilities.
The two things I think really break the alchemist:
The lack of scaling. Adding temp HP is not scaling. Especially with all the new subclasses and other ways to add temp hp. With quiet a few being adding temp HP to more than character, or in mass, or both (twilight cleric). Have the elixirs actually get better. It doesn't even have to be every level but have them get better by tier of play.
The second is the whole 'random'. The sub-class only makes 6 elixirs. After a few days how is making the same things again and again experimental? Let the players choose which elixir.
The other thing I'd do is allow the alchemist to use an action to activate an elixir on another character in range. That's easy enough to flavor. Anything from an injection to a spray - let the players come us with the flavor.
Nah, I dont need to enter this argument again. All I'll say is what I always say in this topic, if you need the mechanics and abilities to give you the spotlight and/or feeling achievement in action choice/economy, then maybe the problem isn't the class/subclass. I've been playing the alchemist since its release in the early 2017 UA and he's been the MVP in the party since day one, not because of the mechanics or scaling, but how/when they're used. The subclass is rife with enough thematic flavour, options and choice to make them a pillar just as they are, but if people need the class mechanics to help them shine, then by all means play a different class. :)
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Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
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I'm curious! My character's experimental elixirs don't come into play very often in our game, especially in combat. When I hand them out to our party, no one takes them ahead of time because of their short duration. Then, by the time we realize we need them, everyone has other uses for their action.
Out of combat, it's not so bad, but some of the elixirs are clearly designed for in-combat use.
Any tips for getting more out of them? My GM isn't open to house-ruling that elixirs take a bonus action to consume.
I personally don't care much for that particularly ability of the alchemist subclass. A few of the potions are useful or marginally useful but some of them require the right timing. And nothing says you actually know what these experimental concoctions do when you create them. Though thankfully nothing says you don't either though the feel of the ability gives me the impression that not knowing what the random ones do is implied since you can only control the extra's. But the extra's also cost precious spell slots and all you really get is control over picks that either mediocre or have lessening return as you get higher level and the effects that you get out of it don't improve over time which would suggest increasing skill as you level. It also barely interacts with or stacks with any other alchemist class ability despite the fact that some of them might do similar things such as healing. The only one being the level 9 ability and that's only some temporary hitpoints and while it's at least potentially a decent amount as far as not higher spell level temporary hitpoints goes, I don't entirely care for temporary hitpoints myself.
I am trying to make the most out of this sub-class as I can, so I am using Experimental Elixirs a lot. The good thing about them is that they're level one buffs without concentration, so boldness goes a long way on allies. I just hit level 9, and I was debating on dipping into life cleric and getting some extra healing, but I flipped a d2 and decided to stick with the main Alchemist path.
I'm glad I did, because restorative reagents boosts the effect healing dramatically. If you use an action to healing elixir, and then healing word for a bonus action, you are dipping into your flat int mod four times.
Healing Elixir - 2d4+5
Restorative Reagents - 2d6+5
Healing Word - 1d4+5+5
That is a ton of health per round, like 30 to 40ish.
The House Rules we play with to help (because Alchemist needs it)
1. Potions/elixirs as bonus action
2. My DM also allows me to administer elixirs/potions via telekinetic mage hand to allies as a main action
3. We also allow the upcasting of elixirs with higher spell slots to generate more elixirs per spell slot (that was a dumb oversight by WotC imo)
Since these elixirs have no concentration, we can almost have a pseudo double concentration combos. Like chug a Flight Elixir and take off then combo it with a flaming sphere. Faerie Fire and Boldness your party, and they can decimate bosses for you.
Half of them (Healing, Resilience and Boldness) are very easy to use, so it partly comes down to giving them to those most likely to need/use them. There's always the possibility they'll go to waste if an adventuring day doesn't involve much if any combat, but I wouldn't count that against the feature. I'd say that Resilience and Boldness aren't intended to be used in combat as such, but rather just before a combat you know you're going into, so it can be a good thing to knock back in a surprise round, or right before springing an ambush or such. Healing can be used like another healing potion; either slug it between combats to get back some HP, or save it for when someone goes down (as getting an ally up is usually worth more than the HP you gain).
The other three are a bit trickier; Flight is great if you encounter an obstacle, and can make it super easy for a Rogue to infiltrate even very well fortified locations. Transformation is a free casting of Alter Self which is great, but it's going to depend a lot on your party and what you're doing whether you'll use it or not; it's not a bad candidate for burning a spell slot on though if you know you'll be going underwater or doing some social stealth later, as a first level slot for a 2nd level spell isn't a bad deal at all, and anybody can use it. Swiftness is the one that can be hardest to find a use for; good for a foot chase, maybe for a scout or a Monk, but it really depends how good your DM is at giving opportunities to capitalise on speed.
Overall I do think the feature is unfairly maligned; they're free potions, and you should be able to get use out of most of them, though I do wish later Alchemist levels gave the option of letting you pick one of your elixirs after rolling (once you get multiple rolls). I mean really what I want is a huge, detailed alchemy system, but we were never going to get one that would satisfy me (see my WIP Gunfighter sub-class for an idea of what I like).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Character - Alchemist Chef. Experimental elixirs have form of food. She just makes them for party in every ocasion and in half of the time is just for fun (make people fly or change theyr look). She describes them in RP very tasty so everybody wants them even when they dont know what will happen. Other spells and ability takes form of food, making a RP rich character.
Even weapons are cook utensils (kitchen knife, pan, wok for armor, dumpling launcher atc.)
I'd be curious to get a sense of how many people house rule drinking the elixirs as a bonus action and how that might change the numbers of this poll.
I gave my whole party Flight Elixers, I was the only one who drank one.
So I flew around running things over with my remote control incendiary device and scoffing at their poor life choices as they had to actually fight things down there.
If you knew what the elixirs were before use. But per RAW you don't know what they are until used or unless you spend the spell slot or time for Identify.
Experimental Elixir:
Nothing in RAW states explicitly when you roll on the table. It only states that you create the elixir when you finish a long rest and the elixir's effect takes place when drunk. There's nothing that indicates you wait until drinking to roll on the table, nor is there anything that states you don't know what the elixir is until it takes effect, granted there's nothing that says the opposite either.
The natural assumption I had when reading it was that you roll when you create the elixir (since this makes the most sense and makes the feature at least somewhat usable) and the alchemist knows what the elixir does once they've made it. (A character knowing how their class feature works is typically the norm, though that's not really stated anywhere I know of either)
If for some reason your DM rules that you don't know what the elixir does there are game mechanics built in to D&D that can help you figure it out before actually using the elixir.
Basic Rules: Using a Magic Item
Alternately, identifying what a substance is/does with an alchemists tools check seems perfectly reasonable to me.
It also stands to reason that even if you didn't know what an elixir did the first time you created it you'd be able to recognize it by color/taste/smell etc when you end up accidentally creating it again via the Experimental Elixir feature. Then all your character needs to do is remember what this specific fluid did the last time it was created then drunk. There are only 6 options after all, assuming your Alchemist survives for 7 long rests after reaching level three they're going to begin seeing repeat elixirs. They'd eventually figure it out.
One great tool I use for my Alchemist is Artificer Infusions to get the Homunculus Servant and a Bag of Holding. This allows my character to make a bunch of the Elixirs (I don't use first level spell slots for anything else), place them all in the bag of holding, and then have my Homunculus Servant (usually invisible with the invisibility spell) fly around applying the Elixirs. This means that I am burning my bonus action each turn to issue the command Use Item, but I can use my action to cast Cure Wounds through the Homunculus Servant via the Channel Magic reaction AND get the Restorative Agents as well; a pretty sweet combo that makes the Alchemist quite a bit more useful even without house rules!
I/Hjalmar remembers after every long rest and diligently rolls for them everytime and dutifully hand them out straight away to party members... but they NEVER use them. I've gotten the impression over the years that they feel their action economy is too important to them and must attack/cast spells during initiative. There has been some mockery for "wasted turns" in the past when either not dealing enough damage (leading to a fellow PC getting hit or dropping) or not doing an epic or clutch enough action, instead expecting the healer to use their turn to heal or buff. It sucks because I'd love to be able to be creative more often. My often employed tactic of casting a contraption spell, then next round casting Sanctuary and using the help action for advantage for others was mocked and gained lots of "tsch tsch" head shakes until they saw how beneficial it was (for them). Sometimes they look at their inventory and find they have written one down that I gave them and then get bummed that it disappeared days ago, "then why'd you give it to me/why didn't you tell me".
tl,dr: wasting an action gulping a potion is beyond my party.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
In their defense, the potions beyond tier 1 aren’t worth the action. The only exception is the out of combat use of a potion of healing. And in combat only if you’ve got a setup for it.
The elixirs are equivalent to a 1 level spell.
The elixirs don’t scale with level / tier.
The elixirs are random.
The elixirs define the sub-class and are the absolute worst option of all the artificer sub-classes.
I gotta say, and I've entered this battle enough on this forum, I respectfully and energetically disagree.
However, completely agree with the scaling of the elixirs. But a healing potion is a healing potion when you've reached low double digits, and a bless is just as clutch when you're failing a save over again. :)
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
If you actually want to argue the merits and flaws of artificer alchemist sub-class abilities.
The two things I think really break the alchemist:
The lack of scaling. Adding temp HP is not scaling. Especially with all the new subclasses and other ways to add temp hp. With quiet a few being adding temp HP to more than character, or in mass, or both (twilight cleric). Have the elixirs actually get better. It doesn't even have to be every level but have them get better by tier of play.
The second is the whole 'random'. The sub-class only makes 6 elixirs. After a few days how is making the same things again and again experimental? Let the players choose which elixir.
The other thing I'd do is allow the alchemist to use an action to activate an elixir on another character in range. That's easy enough to flavor. Anything from an injection to a spray - let the players come us with the flavor.
Nah, I dont need to enter this argument again. All I'll say is what I always say in this topic, if you need the mechanics and abilities to give you the spotlight and/or feeling achievement in action choice/economy, then maybe the problem isn't the class/subclass. I've been playing the alchemist since its release in the early 2017 UA and he's been the MVP in the party since day one, not because of the mechanics or scaling, but how/when they're used. The subclass is rife with enough thematic flavour, options and choice to make them a pillar just as they are, but if people need the class mechanics to help them shine, then by all means play a different class. :)
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.