Yes, that's true for when you're just hiking it across the land by default. But there's a section for Special Travel Pace in the DMG for a reason. The Elk Aspect is a special travel pace.
Maybe I'm just missing something here, but it seems the core of the issue is that people in this thread think you're not allowed to be stealthy if you're moving faster than 200 ft/min. This is incorrect; you are allowed to be stealthy so long as you are traveling at a Slow Pace, and the Elk Aspect doubles the parties slow pace from 200 ft/min to 400 ft/min.
You are finally on the same page, just on a different side of it from me. I already pointed out that special travel pace has nothing to do with using skills, in my opinion.
Except that travel pace rules already tell you whats allowed at what speed. The other thing, the Wolf totem tells you what's affected. Why would you think that what Elk totem doesn't talk about, would be assumed as included? What it actually DOES talk about is movement speed, nothing else.
By your interpretation, you could go at a slow Wind Walk speed of 200(2/3 of the normal 300) ft a turn through a forest and still Stealth perfectly fine. I personally disagree.
Here's what it says under travel pace in the PHB: While traveling, a group of adventurers can move at a normal, fast, or slow pace, as shown on the Travel Pace table. The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect. A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully.
When you move at a Slow Pace, you can "sneak around and search an area more carefully," no matter what the speed of the slow pace is.
If your party is under the effects of the Wind Walk spell, you can absolutely "sneak around and search more carefully" at the Slow Pace of 2000 ft/min. It has nothing to do with your Stealth SKILL, and it has nothing to do with the speed. Only the Pace is important; you can always sneak at a Slow Pace. If something comes up while you're "sneaking around and searching more carefully," then you may need to roll some Stealth skill checks, but until then the skill has nothing to do with it.
If your party is under the effect of the Elk Aspect, then their standard Travel Paces are all doubled; their Slow Pace goes from 200 ft/min to 400 ft/min, and once again, when traveling at a Slow Pace, you can "sneak around and search more carefully."
Except that travel pace rules already tell you whats allowed at what speed. The other thing, the Wolf totem tells you what's affected. Why would you think that what Elk totem doesn't talk about, would be assumed as included? What it actually DOES talk about is movement speed, nothing else.
By your interpretation, you could go at a slow Wind Walk speed of 200(2/3 of the normal 300) ft a turn through a forest and still Stealth perfectly fine. I personally disagree.
Remember pages 242-243 you supposedly read? They explicitly say an person under the effects of wind walk can in 1 minute move 2000 feet at slow pace. Just becuase my slow speed is now faster that does not to anything to alter how moving at slow speed works, moving at slow pace still allows you to move stealthily, no matter how fast you are actiually going.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Stop reading Pace. The whole chart assumes a normal move of 30ft a round, like most characters will have. If you move slow, you go 20ft a round. If you are able to go fast, you go 40ft a round. The chart tells you that you can stealth at a movementt of 20ft per round, That's it, unless you get a specific exception like the Wolf Totem does. If Elk Totem got these abilities while moving faster, it would say so, like the Wolf Totem does. It does not.
Above the original Travel Pace rules, you will find this line:
Certain special mounts, such as a pegasus or griffon, or special vehicles, such as a broom of flying, allow you to travel more swiftly. The Dungeon Master’s Guide contains more information on special methods of travel.
I think that pretty clearly tells you that you will move more swiftly. That is all Special Travel Pace does, nothing about any activities taken while traveling.
I suggest you start at the beginning of this thread as, all this has been answered by me earlier. I also said that it is my interpretation and if you decide that the RAW as written support you idea of allowing Stealth at high speeds, please post the relevant information.
Nowhere, nowhere, does it say that you can't move sneakily at a Slow Pace if it's more than 20ft/rnd (200 ft/min.) All it says is that you can move sneakily at a Slow Pace, no matter what. The chart does not say you can only move sneakily at 200 ft/min; you are making that up. What it does say is that you can move sneakily at a Slow Pace. You can still travel at a Slow Pace while under Elk Aspect, under Wind Walks effects, while riding a pegasus or using a broom of flying. Nowhere does it say you can't, whereas the Special Travel Rules explicitly say you can. You need to reread these sections.
I suggest you start at the beginning of this thread as, all this has been answered by me earlier. I also said that it is my interpretation and if you decide that the RAW as written support you idea of allowing Stealth at high speeds, please post the relevant information.
If your party is under the effects of the Wind Walk spell, you can absolutely "sneak around and search more carefully" at the Slow Pace of 2000 ft/min. It has nothing to do with your Stealth SKILL, and it has nothing to do with the speed. Only the Pace is important; you can always sneak at a Slow Pace. If something comes up while you're "sneaking around and searching more carefully," then you may need to roll some Stealth skill checks, but until then the skill has nothing to do with it.
Actually, it has everything to do with skills if you want a mechanical benefit. If you are saying it a way to denote narrative fluff, that is not the intent of the Travel Pace rules.
Tell me this, why do the Totems in question even refer you to the Travel Pace/Adventuring rules if you are meant tot just ignore what they tell you to do?
While traveling, a group of adventurers can move at a normal, fast, or slow pace, as shown on the Travel Pace table. The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect. A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully.
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter.
When a creature is traveling with a flying speed or with a speed granted by magic, an engine, or a natural force (such as wind or a water current), translate that speed into travel rates using the following rules:
In 1 minute, you can move a number of feet equal to your speed times 10.
In 1 hour, you can move a number of miles equal to your speed divided by 10.
For daily travel, multiply your hourly rate of travel by the number of hours traveled (typically 8 hours).
For a fast pace, increase the rate of travel by one-third.
For example, a character under the effect of a wind walk spell gains a flying speed of 300 feet. In 1 minute, the character can move 3,000 feet at a normal pace, 4,000 feet at a fast pace, or 2,000 feet at a slow pace. The character can also cover 20, 30, or 40 miles in an hour. The spell lasts for 8 hours, allowing the character to travel 160, 240, or 320 miles in a day.
Similarly, a phantom steed spell creates a magical mount with a speed of 100 feet that doesn’t tire like a real horse. A character on a phantom steed can cover 1,000 feet in 1 minute at a normal pace, 1,333 feet at a fast pace, or 666 feet at a slow pace. In 1 hour, the character can travel 7, 10, or 13 miles.
Now, let me repeat that part from the PHB for emphasis: While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily.
Please explain how if I move at 30 and can't Stealth, I suddenly can if my movement speed with Elk Totem doubles my move to 60 but, I decide to move at 40(2/3 of 60)?
Please explain how if I move at 30 and can't Stealth, I suddenly can if my movement speed with Elk Totem doubles my move to 60 but, I decide to move at 40(2/3 of 60)?
Elk doesn't double your Movement speed to 60; it doubles your Travel Pace speeds. Not that it matters specifically, the effect would be the same. While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. The Elk Aspect doubles your slow pace from 200 ft/min to 400 ft/min. It is still a slow pace - regardless of how fast it is - so the characters can move stealthily.
So, you can Wind Walk Stealth at your slow pace if you want as long as there are no enemies, that could cause combat. Or at least, once you end Stealth, you couldn't enter it again?
I wouldn't describe it as purely narrative, no, but sneaking while Traveling is more narrative than sneaking while in a dungeon or something.
Travel Pace and Movement Speed are separate, that's why I said that. Typically your Travel Pace is determined by your Movement Speed, but there are things - like Elk Aspect - that can affect one independently of the other. Usually, if something affects your Movement Speed (particularly magically,) it affects your Travel Pace as well, but if something affects your Travel Pace, it doesn't affect your Movement Speed.
Elk Aspect doesn't let you move through a dungeon at 60 ft/rnd, and it doesn't let you sneak through a dungeon at 40 ft/rnd. What it does is let you travel overland at 600 ft/min at a normal pace, or 400 ft/min at a slow pace. If you encounter something while traveling at a slow pace, you do so from a position of stealth; if you have a random encounter, you can get the drop on them, or even just sneak by. This is the case whether the slow pace is 200 ft/min, 400 ft/min, 666 ft/min, or 2000 ft/min. The speed (distance over time) doesn't matter; the pace does. If you do decide to ambush them, then combat begins, and you use your normal movement speed during combat.
Forget about the numbers in that chart; they're just the default travel speeds. What's important is that it says "Slow; able to use stealth," because as the rules say, while traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. Slow pace is not locked into 200 ft/min, the DMG straight up says that you have a slow pace of 2000 ft/min while using Wind Walk, and the PHB says you can move stealthily at a slow pace. It doesn't say "while traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily, unless that slow pace is faster than 200ft/min." There is no ambiguity; the rules are clear, and I posted everything relevant in my post #32.
look. everyone just play the game as you see it. To me, the rules are saying that if you move faster than 200' you can't stealth because it's on the chart. yall keep saying the numbers don't matter but the words do. you could just as easily say the opposite is true. What I'm saying is that an elk totem moving 400' can't stealth at my table because the ability to do so goes away once you go over 200' unless you have an ability that says you can. Which the wolf specifically does. That's me.
Just to be clear. Wolf Totem wouldn't be useless compared to Elk Totem during combat if you wanted to Stealth or Track?
Yes, it would. Both Aspects only affect your Travel Pace - Elk affects your speed, and Wolf affects what you can do at Normal/Fast Speed. Travel Pace has no impact on combat.
I edited a line into my last post you may not have seen: Typically your Travel Pace is determined by your Movement Speed, but there are things - like Elk Aspect - that can affect one independently of the other. Usually, if something affects your Movement Speed (particularly magically,) it affects your Travel Pace as well, but if something affects your Travel Pace, it doesn't affect your Movement Speed.
As I said before, the "tracking at fast speed" thing is pointless, because there's no rule that says you can't do that in the first place; Wolf Aspect is just "allowing" you to do something you can already do. Being able to sneak at a Normal Pace is great, but Elk Aspect increases your Slow Pace to above the default Normal Pace, so it's better.
VikingEric, I'm not even going to address that. Just read my post #32, carefully, please.
Obviously that's what we're going to do. We're not discussing how we want to play, we're discussing what the rules are.
I have shown you the rules, which clearly state that you can travel sneakily at a Slow Pace, no matter what the speed of that pace is. You have not shown me any rules that state that you can't if it's over 200 ft/min. Please do so, if you can.
You are finally on the same page, just on a different side of it from me. I already pointed out that special travel pace has nothing to do with using skills, in my opinion.
Why are you even talking about skills? I don't understand.
Becasue, as I mentioned previously here:
...You're losing me.
Here's what it says under travel pace in the PHB: While traveling, a group of adventurers can move at a normal, fast, or slow pace, as shown on the Travel Pace table. The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect. A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully.
When you move at a Slow Pace, you can "sneak around and search an area more carefully," no matter what the speed of the slow pace is.
If your party is under the effects of the Wind Walk spell, you can absolutely "sneak around and search more carefully" at the Slow Pace of 2000 ft/min. It has nothing to do with your Stealth SKILL, and it has nothing to do with the speed. Only the Pace is important; you can always sneak at a Slow Pace. If something comes up while you're "sneaking around and searching more carefully," then you may need to roll some Stealth skill checks, but until then the skill has nothing to do with it.
If your party is under the effect of the Elk Aspect, then their standard Travel Paces are all doubled; their Slow Pace goes from 200 ft/min to 400 ft/min, and once again, when traveling at a Slow Pace, you can "sneak around and search more carefully."
Remember pages 242-243 you supposedly read? They explicitly say an person under the effects of wind walk can in 1 minute move 2000 feet at slow pace. Just becuase my slow speed is now faster that does not to anything to alter how moving at slow speed works, moving at slow pace still allows you to move stealthily, no matter how fast you are actiually going.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Stop reading Pace. The whole chart assumes a normal move of 30ft a round, like most characters will have. If you move slow, you go 20ft a round. If you are able to go fast, you go 40ft a round. The chart tells you that you can stealth at a movementt of 20ft per round, That's it, unless you get a specific exception like the Wolf Totem does. If Elk Totem got these abilities while moving faster, it would say so, like the Wolf Totem does. It does not.
Above the original Travel Pace rules, you will find this line:
Certain special mounts, such as a pegasus or griffon, or special vehicles, such as a broom of flying, allow you to travel more swiftly. The Dungeon Master’s Guide contains more information on special methods of travel.
I think that pretty clearly tells you that you will move more swiftly. That is all Special Travel Pace does, nothing about any activities taken while traveling.
I suggest you start at the beginning of this thread as, all this has been answered by me earlier. I also said that it is my interpretation and if you decide that the RAW as written support you idea of allowing Stealth at high speeds, please post the relevant information.
Nowhere, nowhere, does it say that you can't move sneakily at a Slow Pace if it's more than 20ft/rnd (200 ft/min.) All it says is that you can move sneakily at a Slow Pace, no matter what. The chart does not say you can only move sneakily at 200 ft/min; you are making that up. What it does say is that you can move sneakily at a Slow Pace. You can still travel at a Slow Pace while under Elk Aspect, under Wind Walks effects, while riding a pegasus or using a broom of flying. Nowhere does it say you can't, whereas the Special Travel Rules explicitly say you can. You need to reread these sections.
I already have, multiple times.
Actually, it has everything to do with skills if you want a mechanical benefit. If you are saying it a way to denote narrative fluff, that is not the intent of the Travel Pace rules.
Tell me this, why do the Totems in question even refer you to the Travel Pace/Adventuring rules if you are meant tot just ignore what they tell you to do?
Found in the PHB:
While traveling, a group of adventurers can move at a normal, fast, or slow pace, as shown on the Travel Pace table. The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect. A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully.
Found in the PHB:
Stealth
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter.
Found in the DMG:
When a creature is traveling with a flying speed or with a speed granted by magic, an engine, or a natural force (such as wind or a water current), translate that speed into travel rates using the following rules:
Found in the DMG:
For example, a character under the effect of a wind walk spell gains a flying speed of 300 feet. In 1 minute, the character can move 3,000 feet at a normal pace, 4,000 feet at a fast pace, or 2,000 feet at a slow pace. The character can also cover 20, 30, or 40 miles in an hour. The spell lasts for 8 hours, allowing the character to travel 160, 240, or 320 miles in a day.
Similarly, a phantom steed spell creates a magical mount with a speed of 100 feet that doesn’t tire like a real horse. A character on a phantom steed can cover 1,000 feet in 1 minute at a normal pace, 1,333 feet at a fast pace, or 666 feet at a slow pace. In 1 hour, the character can travel 7, 10, or 13 miles.
Now, let me repeat that part from the PHB for emphasis: While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily.
Please explain how if I move at 30 and can't Stealth, I suddenly can if my movement speed with Elk Totem doubles my move to 60 but, I decide to move at 40(2/3 of 60)?
Elk doesn't double your Movement speed to 60; it doubles your Travel Pace speeds. Not that it matters specifically, the effect would be the same. While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. The Elk Aspect doubles your slow pace from 200 ft/min to 400 ft/min. It is still a slow pace - regardless of how fast it is - so the characters can move stealthily.
So again, I ask you: Is moving stealthily purely narrative?
If you read the chart, it actually say, can use Stealth. This is skill use.
If you read the chart, it actually says:
Also lists actual skill use.
Lastly, just to confuse the subject more. Some Sage Advice.
Does travel pace apply to movement in combat, or just when traveling?
The travel pace rule doesn’t apply in combat.
So, you can Wind Walk Stealth at your slow pace if you want as long as there are no enemies, that could cause combat. Or at least, once you end Stealth, you couldn't enter it again?
I wouldn't describe it as purely narrative, no, but sneaking while Traveling is more narrative than sneaking while in a dungeon or something.
Travel Pace and Movement Speed are separate, that's why I said that. Typically your Travel Pace is determined by your Movement Speed, but there are things - like Elk Aspect - that can affect one independently of the other. Usually, if something affects your Movement Speed (particularly magically,) it affects your Travel Pace as well, but if something affects your Travel Pace, it doesn't affect your Movement Speed.
Elk Aspect doesn't let you move through a dungeon at 60 ft/rnd, and it doesn't let you sneak through a dungeon at 40 ft/rnd. What it does is let you travel overland at 600 ft/min at a normal pace, or 400 ft/min at a slow pace. If you encounter something while traveling at a slow pace, you do so from a position of stealth; if you have a random encounter, you can get the drop on them, or even just sneak by. This is the case whether the slow pace is 200 ft/min, 400 ft/min, 666 ft/min, or 2000 ft/min. The speed (distance over time) doesn't matter; the pace does. If you do decide to ambush them, then combat begins, and you use your normal movement speed during combat.
Forget about the numbers in that chart; they're just the default travel speeds. What's important is that it says "Slow; able to use stealth," because as the rules say, while traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. Slow pace is not locked into 200 ft/min, the DMG straight up says that you have a slow pace of 2000 ft/min while using Wind Walk, and the PHB says you can move stealthily at a slow pace. It doesn't say "while traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily, unless that slow pace is faster than 200ft/min." There is no ambiguity; the rules are clear, and I posted everything relevant in my post #32.
Just to be clear. Wolf Totem wouldn't be useless compared to Elk Totem during combat if you wanted to Stealth or Track?
look. everyone just play the game as you see it. To me, the rules are saying that if you move faster than 200' you can't stealth because it's on the chart. yall keep saying the numbers don't matter but the words do. you could just as easily say the opposite is true. What I'm saying is that an elk totem moving 400' can't stealth at my table because the ability to do so goes away once you go over 200' unless you have an ability that says you can. Which the wolf specifically does. That's me.
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https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
Yes, it would. Both Aspects only affect your Travel Pace - Elk affects your speed, and Wolf affects what you can do at Normal/Fast Speed. Travel Pace has no impact on combat.
I edited a line into my last post you may not have seen: Typically your Travel Pace is determined by your Movement Speed, but there are things - like Elk Aspect - that can affect one independently of the other. Usually, if something affects your Movement Speed (particularly magically,) it affects your Travel Pace as well, but if something affects your Travel Pace, it doesn't affect your Movement Speed.
As I said before, the "tracking at fast speed" thing is pointless, because there's no rule that says you can't do that in the first place; Wolf Aspect is just "allowing" you to do something you can already do. Being able to sneak at a Normal Pace is great, but Elk Aspect increases your Slow Pace to above the default Normal Pace, so it's better.
VikingEric, I'm not even going to address that. Just read my post #32, carefully, please.
Why dont I just play it the way I read it and you can too?
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https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
Obviously that's what we're going to do. We're not discussing how we want to play, we're discussing what the rules are.
I have shown you the rules, which clearly state that you can travel sneakily at a Slow Pace, no matter what the speed of that pace is. You have not shown me any rules that state that you can't if it's over 200 ft/min. Please do so, if you can.
the table says it. just like it says slow pace. you're just choosing which one of those to use and which one to ignore.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt