The table is nothing more than a summary. It tells you what your average speeds are for each Pace, and what you can do when traveling at those Paces. The DMG tells you how these paces are calculated; they are not static numbers. Elk Aspect doubles the speed of each Pace. The rules very clearly say that when traveling at a Slow Pace, you can be sneaky. Just because the speed of that Slow Pace is increased doesn't mean you can't still do the things you're allowed to do.
I have literally linked to, and explained, all of the rules redundantly; you seem to just be ignoring the parts in the DMG, and even half of what's in the PHB. There's clearly nothing left for me to do but repeat myself; these rules aren't even ambiguous, for pities sake.
If you have anything to actually add, I'll happily continue the discussion, but otherwise this is just an exercise in frustration.
So, you can Wind Walk Stealth at your slow pace if you want as long as there are no enemies, that could cause combat. Or at least, once you end Stealth, you couldn't enter it again?
Actually I want to re-address this one for you Wtfdndad just to clear something up; when it says "Able to use stealth," it is not referring to the skill. When skills are referred to in the PHB/DMG, they are in the format Ability(Skill), such as how the Fast Pace says -5 to passive Wisdom(Perception) scores. If it was talking about the skill, it would say "Able to make Dexterity(Stealth) checks."
What "able to use stealth" is referring to in this section is the "Stealth" header under "Activities while Traveling;" it actually specifically says this: A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully (see the “Activity While Traveling” section later in this chapter for more information).
The stealth header in Activity While Traveling says this:
Stealth
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter. See the rules for hiding in chapter 7 "Using Ability Scores."
It is saying that while moving at a slow pace, you are able to move stealthily, and if you encounter something while doing so, you can then make Dexterity(Stealth) checks to either ambush or sneak by.
Yes, once you encounter creatures while traveling along at a slow pace while sneaking, you then can make Stealth checks to either surprise or sneak by them. That is what it says. You don't make any Stealth checks while traveling at a slow pace, you only do once you encounter something. Traveling at a slow pace gives you the ability to sneak, which can in turn give you the opportunity to make a Stealth check.
Your issue, I think, is that you're stuck thinking that the chart itself is the rules, and that exactly what it says goes and it can't be changed. This isn't true. If it was, Elk Aspect wouldn't be able to double your Normal Travel Pace; clearly it can, so it also doubles your Slow Travel Pace, and since the rules for Stealth say that you can be stealthy while traveling at a Slow Travel Pace... that's that.
The chart is a quick summary people can look to for reference; a summary of things that are explained elsewhere in the rules:
An explanation of what you can do at a fast, normal, and slow Travel Pace can be found in the PHB:
Travel Pace
While traveling, a group of adventurers can move at a normal, fast, or slow pace, as shown on the Travel Pace table. The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect. A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully (see the “Activity While Traveling” section later in this chapter for more information).
...
The Dungeon Master’s Guide contains more information on special methods of travel.
...
Stealth
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter. See the rules for hiding in chapter 7 "Using Ability Scores."
...
Noticing Threats
While traveling at a fast pace, characters take a –5 penalty to their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to notice hidden threats.
The calculations for determining what your various Travel Paces are can be found in the DMG:
Special Travel Pace
The rules on travel pace in the Player’s Handbook assume that a group of travelers adopts a pace that, over time, is unaffected by the individual members’ walking speeds. The difference between walking speeds can be significant during combat, but during an overland journey, the difference vanishes as travelers pause to catch their breath, the faster ones wait for the slower ones, and one traveler’s quickness is matched by another traveler’s endurance.
A character bestride a phantom steed, soaring through the air on a carpet of flying, or riding a sailboat or a steam-powered gnomish contraption doesn’t travel at a normal rate, since the magic, engine, or wind doesn’t tire the way a creature does and the air doesn’t contain the types of obstructions found on land. When a creature is traveling with a flying speed or with a speed granted by magic, an engine, or a natural force (such as wind or a water current), translate that speed into travel rates using the following rules:
In 1 minute, you can move a number of feet equal to your speed times 10.
In 1 hour, you can move a number of miles equal to your speed divided by 10.
For daily travel, multiply your hourly rate of travel by the number of hours traveled (typically 8 hours).
For a fast pace, increase the rate of travel by one-third.
For a slow pace, multiply the rate by two-thirds.
For example, a character under the effect of a wind walk spell gains a flying speed of 300 feet. In 1 minute, the character can move 3,000 feet at a normal pace, 4,000 feet at a fast pace, or 2,000 feet at a slow pace. The character can also cover 20, 30, or 40 miles in an hour. The spell lasts for 8 hours, allowing the character to travel 160, 240, or 320 miles in a day.
Similarly, a phantom steed spell creates a magical mount with a speed of 100 feet that doesn’t tire like a real horse. A character on a phantom steed can cover 1,000 feet in 1 minute at a normal pace, 1,333 feet at a fast pace, or 666 feet at a slow pace. In 1 hour, the character can travel 7, 10, or 13 miles.
Ultimately, you seem to be getting hung up on the sentence "The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect." I get that; the table is just a summary, but due to this sentence you're taking it as the be-all-end-all.
But you know what, that's fine, because my point still stands; the "how far the party can move in a period of time" changing does not negate "whether the pace has any effect." Elk Aspect doubles "how far the party can move in a period of time," for all three paces. It doesn't stop you from benefiting from the effect of the slow pace, nor the fast pace. It just doubles the speeds of those paces, that is it.
Ugh. Your interpretation says he can. Mine says once he passes 200' he can't move stealthily. I've talked to everyone I know that plays..and it's a lot...and they all agree with me. So it's not as black and white as you're trying to make it or I would be the only person who thinks that way. You're saying it's based on the term pace and I'm saying it's based on a number. Both are presented as part of the rule. It's okay to disagree.
The rules explain how the number that you think it's "based on" is generated; you're refusing to accept that. Please don't ever use the "I know a bunch of (presumably imaginary) people that agree with me" argument, in any conversation; it's just obtuse. You have in no way quoted any rules to prove your argument, you just keep repeating that you think it should be that way. I'd be happy to go the "agree to disagree" road if you actually made an argument. Forget it.
I'm not refusing to accept anything. the rule has some ambiguity whether you want to see it or not or absolutely no one would ever have thought to ask the question.
Also, I'll say whatever the hell I want to. Your religious rigidity to the idea that what i'm saying is wrong that led you to presume that i would lie about it, is ridiculous. I play in 2 irl games every week with 4 and 6 players respectively and I play online on a west marches server with around 20 people. so take your self righteous attitude and shove it up your ass. I have repeatedly tried to have a civil conversation and simply say let it go, but now you have not only accused me of lying, but refused to just be a decent person about it.
It was rude to presume you were lying, I apologize. But whether it's true or not, it's a non-argument that has no merit to this discussion which you're trying to use to prove your point
Forget it, no use in us slinging insults. There's nothing more to say.
Yeah sorry I missed this one but Jay is right here.
Elk does not say you double your normal travel pace. It just says travel pace, which by definitionencompasses slow, normal, and fast paces.
If it can't effect the numbers on the travel pace table, it has no effect whatsoever. If you're only applying it to one row of the table, you're doing something extra that the rules are not telling you to do.
From there, the rest flows naturally whether you feel that it is appropriate or not. Stealth (which really should be a different term here because the only connection to the skill is conceptual) is only attached to "slow pace," not the numbers in the table. If this was not the case they wouldn't need to refer to special means of travel, and there's no reason to think those numbers are carved in stone when this game is absolutely chock full of abilities and items and spells that alter the base numbers of things.
These are just not well designed choices and probably slipped through the cracks during playtest because lets be honest - the "crunchy" players that pick this kind of stuff apart did not pick these options. They are for more narrative campaigns or players that pick wolf aspect because it's their spirit animal and those games are less concerned about whether one choice is mechanically superior to another. I would guess that the concept of overland travel speed does not even come up more than maybe once or twice in at least 80% of campaigns.
These are just not well designed choices and probably slipped through the cracks during playtest because lets be honest - the "crunchy" players that pick this kind of stuff apart did not pick these options. They are for more narrative campaigns or players that pick wolf aspect because it's their spirit animal and those games are less concerned about whether one choice is mechanically superior to another. I would guess that the concept of overland travel speed does not even come up more than maybe once or twice in at least 80% of campaigns.
Snipped to to support my point of view. Being able to use various skills at breakneck speeds breaks suspension of disbelief for me. If it is fine for you, rock on.
These are just not well designed choices and probably slipped through the cracks during playtest because lets be honest - the "crunchy" players that pick this kind of stuff apart did not pick these options. They are for more narrative campaigns or players that pick wolf aspect because it's their spirit animal and those games are less concerned about whether one choice is mechanically superior to another. I would guess that the concept of overland travel speed does not even come up more than maybe once or twice in at least 80% of campaigns.
at the same time, there is nothing stopping you from picking the elk totem's benefits and just pretending its actiually the wolf totem, just like how in sword coast adventueres guide, the book that introduced elk, they used the eagle totem with the elk's totemic attunement to represent the sky pony and the bear totem with the tiger's totemic attunement to represent the "thunderbeast" whatever that is, you can use multiple spirit thingies to represent a single animal. It also mentions some barbs with the "tree ghost" as their totem animal, using the bear totem but with speak with plants instead of the normal animal based rituals you get at 3rd level, and i think that option of replacing your normal rituals with this other thing should be available to every totem barb
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
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*sigh*
The table is nothing more than a summary. It tells you what your average speeds are for each Pace, and what you can do when traveling at those Paces. The DMG tells you how these paces are calculated; they are not static numbers. Elk Aspect doubles the speed of each Pace. The rules very clearly say that when traveling at a Slow Pace, you can be sneaky. Just because the speed of that Slow Pace is increased doesn't mean you can't still do the things you're allowed to do.
I have literally linked to, and explained, all of the rules redundantly; you seem to just be ignoring the parts in the DMG, and even half of what's in the PHB. There's clearly nothing left for me to do but repeat myself; these rules aren't even ambiguous, for pities sake.
If you have anything to actually add, I'll happily continue the discussion, but otherwise this is just an exercise in frustration.
Actually I want to re-address this one for you Wtfdndad just to clear something up; when it says "Able to use stealth," it is not referring to the skill. When skills are referred to in the PHB/DMG, they are in the format Ability(Skill), such as how the Fast Pace says -5 to passive Wisdom(Perception) scores. If it was talking about the skill, it would say "Able to make Dexterity(Stealth) checks."
What "able to use stealth" is referring to in this section is the "Stealth" header under "Activities while Traveling;" it actually specifically says this: A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully (see the “Activity While Traveling” section later in this chapter for more information).
The stealth header in Activity While Traveling says this:
Stealth
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter. See the rules for hiding in chapter 7 "Using Ability Scores."
It is saying that while moving at a slow pace, you are able to move stealthily, and if you encounter something while doing so, you can then make Dexterity(Stealth) checks to either ambush or sneak by.
Guess what that last sentence does? Links to dexterity checks using skills. So it is specifically talking about using the skill.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
Yes, once you encounter creatures while traveling along at a slow pace while sneaking, you then can make Stealth checks to either surprise or sneak by them. That is what it says. You don't make any Stealth checks while traveling at a slow pace, you only do once you encounter something. Traveling at a slow pace gives you the ability to sneak, which can in turn give you the opportunity to make a Stealth check.
Your issue, I think, is that you're stuck thinking that the chart itself is the rules, and that exactly what it says goes and it can't be changed. This isn't true. If it was, Elk Aspect wouldn't be able to double your Normal Travel Pace; clearly it can, so it also doubles your Slow Travel Pace, and since the rules for Stealth say that you can be stealthy while traveling at a Slow Travel Pace... that's that.
The chart is a quick summary people can look to for reference; a summary of things that are explained elsewhere in the rules:
An explanation of what you can do at a fast, normal, and slow Travel Pace can be found in the PHB:
Travel Pace
While traveling, a group of adventurers can move at a normal, fast, or slow pace, as shown on the Travel Pace table. The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect. A fast pace makes characters less perceptive, while a slow pace makes it possible to sneak around and to search an area more carefully (see the “Activity While Traveling” section later in this chapter for more information).
...
The Dungeon Master’s Guide contains more information on special methods of travel.
...
Stealth
While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter. See the rules for hiding in chapter 7 "Using Ability Scores."
...
Noticing Threats
While traveling at a fast pace, characters take a –5 penalty to their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to notice hidden threats.
The calculations for determining what your various Travel Paces are can be found in the DMG:
Special Travel Pace
The rules on travel pace in the Player’s Handbook assume that a group of travelers adopts a pace that, over time, is unaffected by the individual members’ walking speeds. The difference between walking speeds can be significant during combat, but during an overland journey, the difference vanishes as travelers pause to catch their breath, the faster ones wait for the slower ones, and one traveler’s quickness is matched by another traveler’s endurance.
A character bestride a phantom steed, soaring through the air on a carpet of flying, or riding a sailboat or a steam-powered gnomish contraption doesn’t travel at a normal rate, since the magic, engine, or wind doesn’t tire the way a creature does and the air doesn’t contain the types of obstructions found on land. When a creature is traveling with a flying speed or with a speed granted by magic, an engine, or a natural force (such as wind or a water current), translate that speed into travel rates using the following rules:
For example, a character under the effect of a wind walk spell gains a flying speed of 300 feet. In 1 minute, the character can move 3,000 feet at a normal pace, 4,000 feet at a fast pace, or 2,000 feet at a slow pace. The character can also cover 20, 30, or 40 miles in an hour. The spell lasts for 8 hours, allowing the character to travel 160, 240, or 320 miles in a day.
Similarly, a phantom steed spell creates a magical mount with a speed of 100 feet that doesn’t tire like a real horse. A character on a phantom steed can cover 1,000 feet in 1 minute at a normal pace, 1,333 feet at a fast pace, or 666 feet at a slow pace. In 1 hour, the character can travel 7, 10, or 13 miles.
Ultimately, you seem to be getting hung up on the sentence "The table states how far the party can move in a period of time and whether the pace has any effect." I get that; the table is just a summary, but due to this sentence you're taking it as the be-all-end-all.
But you know what, that's fine, because my point still stands; the "how far the party can move in a period of time" changing does not negate "whether the pace has any effect." Elk Aspect doubles "how far the party can move in a period of time," for all three paces. It doesn't stop you from benefiting from the effect of the slow pace, nor the fast pace. It just doubles the speeds of those paces, that is it.
Ugh. Your interpretation says he can. Mine says once he passes 200' he can't move stealthily. I've talked to everyone I know that plays..and it's a lot...and they all agree with me. So it's not as black and white as you're trying to make it or I would be the only person who thinks that way. You're saying it's based on the term pace and I'm saying it's based on a number. Both are presented as part of the rule. It's okay to disagree.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
The rules explain how the number that you think it's "based on" is generated; you're refusing to accept that. Please don't ever use the "I know a bunch of (presumably imaginary) people that agree with me" argument, in any conversation; it's just obtuse. You have in no way quoted any rules to prove your argument, you just keep repeating that you think it should be that way. I'd be happy to go the "agree to disagree" road if you actually made an argument. Forget it.
I'm not refusing to accept anything. the rule has some ambiguity whether you want to see it or not or absolutely no one would ever have thought to ask the question.
Also, I'll say whatever the hell I want to. Your religious rigidity to the idea that what i'm saying is wrong that led you to presume that i would lie about it, is ridiculous. I play in 2 irl games every week with 4 and 6 players respectively and I play online on a west marches server with around 20 people. so take your self righteous attitude and shove it up your ass. I have repeatedly tried to have a civil conversation and simply say let it go, but now you have not only accused me of lying, but refused to just be a decent person about it.
To the OP, play the game the way you want to.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
It was rude to presume you were lying, I apologize. But whether it's true or not, it's a non-argument that has no merit to this discussion which you're trying to use to prove your point
Forget it, no use in us slinging insults. There's nothing more to say.
I agree with Jaysburn. His references in post #32 provide all the information you need to come to the RAW conclusion.
Yeah sorry I missed this one but Jay is right here.
Elk does not say you double your normal travel pace. It just says travel pace, which by definition encompasses slow, normal, and fast paces.
If it can't effect the numbers on the travel pace table, it has no effect whatsoever. If you're only applying it to one row of the table, you're doing something extra that the rules are not telling you to do.
From there, the rest flows naturally whether you feel that it is appropriate or not. Stealth (which really should be a different term here because the only connection to the skill is conceptual) is only attached to "slow pace," not the numbers in the table. If this was not the case they wouldn't need to refer to special means of travel, and there's no reason to think those numbers are carved in stone when this game is absolutely chock full of abilities and items and spells that alter the base numbers of things.
These are just not well designed choices and probably slipped through the cracks during playtest because lets be honest - the "crunchy" players that pick this kind of stuff apart did not pick these options. They are for more narrative campaigns or players that pick wolf aspect because it's their spirit animal and those games are less concerned about whether one choice is mechanically superior to another. I would guess that the concept of overland travel speed does not even come up more than maybe once or twice in at least 80% of campaigns.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Snipped to to support my point of view. Being able to use various skills at breakneck speeds breaks suspension of disbelief for me. If it is fine for you, rock on.
at the same time, there is nothing stopping you from picking the elk totem's benefits and just pretending its actiually the wolf totem, just like how in sword coast adventueres guide, the book that introduced elk, they used the eagle totem with the elk's totemic attunement to represent the sky pony and the bear totem with the tiger's totemic attunement to represent the "thunderbeast" whatever that is, you can use multiple spirit thingies to represent a single animal. It also mentions some barbs with the "tree ghost" as their totem animal, using the bear totem but with speak with plants instead of the normal animal based rituals you get at 3rd level, and i think that option of replacing your normal rituals with this other thing should be available to every totem barb
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes