Pretty basic question, would the Bard class be "too good" if you gained a spell per level from 2-18 (except for levels 12 and 16), and your magical secrets didn't count towards you max known spells. You end up with 19 normal bard spells and 6 spells from other classes that count as bard spells (so you can swap them out during leveling if need be).
If this is too much, at what cut off point does it become "too much"? 15 known spells at level 10 (currently 14)? 20 known spells at level 14 (currently 18)? or 25 known spells at level 18 (currently 22)?
Sorry reread the stat block for Bard and noticed that you don't get known spells on levels 12 and 16, so it's only +3 spells total.
So let me make sure we're talking about the same thing ...
Bard gets 2 cantrips to start and 4 known spells
He gets to increase that to 4 cantrips and 22 known spells by level 18, and if he chooses College of Lore he gets +2 spells of any type at level 6. Of the 22 known spells, 16 must be from the Bard's spell list, but 6 may be of any spell. He also gets a couple other powers that are spell-like including Song of Rest (a healing type effect), Countercharm (in effect a spell like bless that is used against charms) and if you choose CoL you get Cutting Words or CoV you get Combat Inspiration, which increase the versatility for using bardic inspiration.
I don't think adding three spells to the known spells limit would break the character or the game. You still have the same limit to cast.
One interesting question would be since can shuffle the spells around at each level, are you able to adjust the two spells you select at level 6 later as you upgrade? At level 6 you can only learn spells up to level 3. So I might pick fireball at level 3 (when I reach level 6). But what if I wanted something else when I got higher? It seems like you can shuffle those spells and it is not a big deal, because you still can only cast so many spells per rest.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Sadly you can not switch the spells you picked up at level 6 for better spells at higher levels. With this change, you end up with 4 cantrips and 25 spells, 19 of which must come from the Bard's spell list, but 6 of which may be any spell (provided you could learn the spell at the level you got Magical Secrets). Want to be sure no one is getting to level 14 and grabbing +4 seventh level spells.
The limitation also stays in place that when you get your +2 spells at levels 10,14, and 18 that the spells must both come from the same spell list (i could be wrong on this existing limitation the wording is mildly unclear)
I agree with Tarzhay. Bards get to know 22 spells (or 24 for Lore Bards) while (most) Sorcerers and Warlocks get 15. Then they also get to be the #2 skill monkeys (behind Rogues), have the unique and powerful Bardic Inspiration feature, and can become solid fighters as well. Bards have it pretty good. It's not a class which needs to be fixed by making it more powerful.
Sadly you can not switch the spells you picked up at level 6 for better spells at higher levels. With this change, you end up with 4 cantrips and 25 spells, 19 of which must come from the Bard's spell list, but 6 of which may be any spell (provided you could learn the spell at the level you got Magical Secrets). Want to be sure no one is getting to level 14 and grabbing +4 seventh level spells.
The limitation also stays in place that when you get your +2 spells at levels 10,14, and 18 that the spells must both come from the same spell list (i could be wrong on this existing limitation the wording is mildly unclear)
Errata corrected the misconception that both magical secrets needed to come from the same spell list.
Knowing more spells is always nice, but bards already have enough versatility that giving them even more spells known seems a bit much.
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Pretty basic question, would the Bard class be "too good" if you gained a spell per level from 2-18 (except for levels 12 and 16), and your magical secrets didn't count towards you max known spells. You end up with 19 normal bard spells and 6 spells from other classes that count as bard spells (so you can swap them out during leveling if need be).
If this is too much, at what cut off point does it become "too much"? 15 known spells at level 10 (currently 14)? 20 known spells at level 14 (currently 18)? or 25 known spells at level 18 (currently 22)?
Sorry reread the stat block for Bard and noticed that you don't get known spells on levels 12 and 16, so it's only +3 spells total.
So let me make sure we're talking about the same thing ...
Bard gets 2 cantrips to start and 4 known spells
He gets to increase that to 4 cantrips and 22 known spells by level 18, and if he chooses College of Lore he gets +2 spells of any type at level 6. Of the 22 known spells, 16 must be from the Bard's spell list, but 6 may be of any spell. He also gets a couple other powers that are spell-like including Song of Rest (a healing type effect), Countercharm (in effect a spell like bless that is used against charms) and if you choose CoL you get Cutting Words or CoV you get Combat Inspiration, which increase the versatility for using bardic inspiration.
I don't think adding three spells to the known spells limit would break the character or the game. You still have the same limit to cast.
One interesting question would be since can shuffle the spells around at each level, are you able to adjust the two spells you select at level 6 later as you upgrade? At level 6 you can only learn spells up to level 3. So I might pick fireball at level 3 (when I reach level 6). But what if I wanted something else when I got higher? It seems like you can shuffle those spells and it is not a big deal, because you still can only cast so many spells per rest.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Sadly you can not switch the spells you picked up at level 6 for better spells at higher levels. With this change, you end up with 4 cantrips and 25 spells, 19 of which must come from the Bard's spell list, but 6 of which may be any spell (provided you could learn the spell at the level you got Magical Secrets). Want to be sure no one is getting to level 14 and grabbing +4 seventh level spells.
The limitation also stays in place that when you get your +2 spells at levels 10,14, and 18 that the spells must both come from the same spell list (i could be wrong on this existing limitation the wording is mildly unclear)
I think those extra spells will take away form the Bardic class.
If you have to many spells you will depend on them and not use your other abilities, you might as well be or multi-class into a Sorcerer or a Mage.
If you need more spells there is always the feats: Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster, Spell Sniper, and Elf magic feats.
If you need contingencies there is always scrolls, potions and Ritual spells.
We are not spell singers tho we do cast spells.
I agree with Tarzhay. Bards get to know 22 spells (or 24 for Lore Bards) while (most) Sorcerers and Warlocks get 15. Then they also get to be the #2 skill monkeys (behind Rogues), have the unique and powerful Bardic Inspiration feature, and can become solid fighters as well. Bards have it pretty good. It's not a class which needs to be fixed by making it more powerful.
Errata corrected the misconception that both magical secrets needed to come from the same spell list.
Knowing more spells is always nice, but bards already have enough versatility that giving them even more spells known seems a bit much.