So quick run down we off some undead leering around Essembra then spent a day there. The leader of the city (A powerful Wizard) came to us for help the next day asking us to bring stop these magic brewing pots(Think portals to a maggot hellhole and there are 4 in total) that were being brought by the local undead to a nearby town saying if the local undead manage to bring the pots to the town they would hit a critical mass overrunning the landmass. We agreed to aid her and she gave us info of the location of 1 brewing pot and teleported us to a location 1 hour ahead of the brewing pot. We get ready (Just Me(A Cleric), a Monk and a Wizard all Level 14) with a few spell castings (Forbiddance by our party's Wizard and me with my Planar Ally).
Wizard still casting the spell so new objective protect the Wizard for 10 minutes from forward scouting parties of undead. We defend him till that is done and start moving ahead towards the Brewing pot that is still being moved forward. We find a small group of undead that are guarding the Brewing pot with maggots covering them offing them. Wizard cast a spell to pick it up with a disk (Pots can't be magically teleported). Monk had a homebrewed skill that he could use to cast Pass Without a Trace for Ki points, Wizard cast a masking spell on the Brewing Pot making it harder to find. We begin to move through the thick overgrown woods at stealth-pase (Painfully Slow!) within a 30 minutes after stealth we stared finding scouts of Imps(Was invisible) and lesser Demons around looking for us. We offed 1 Imp before it could cry out and thought it would be a bad idea to leave a body trail behind us while trying to move this thing.
Few more minutes pass and we find a long bone claw lich thing moving about looking with great speed around the area (Likely found the Imp we offed earlier) and we start combat with it due to the Wizard low stealth roll. Combat starts with killing another nearby Imp that appeared to be enhanced upon death to make a massive scream that sounded like a woman's voice. Next round Undead bone claw lich thing attacks Monk. Me and the Wizard with our 24 passive perception see Skywriting that is unknown to me , but the Wizard makes it out for Abyssal saying "He is here". Wizard already took his turn so is unable to speak due to him casting a spell that turn so I still know nothing. I take my round hitting the Undead with spells and right after my turn is up a 4 man party appears behind me(3 casters and a Orthon) The new party starts their turn with 4 spells (Not sure how but all were Int saves) I rolled a nat 20, 4, and another nat 20. Turns out the second to last spell that I rolled a nat 20 was on a Feeble mind and I still failed so making that spellcaster's spell save somewhere in the range 21 or higher (Only had 10 Int).
So now Feeble minded the same caster cased another spell somehow sending me to Hell! Being Feeble Minded I had no chance of success. So Now I am trapped in Hell, Feeble Minded, and no way to know where I am.
That being said I have been to hell once for a week or so after being killed by a Hell-fire weapon in the pass and remade into a devil for a short time before my Cleric teacher brought me back to a new body.
What is your guys thoughts? I know I am at a lost for words.
Yeah you are in a very bad situation...I do not really see a way out unless they come get you and use one of the prescribed spells to reverse the situation.
Otherwise you are effectively dead as you have no real way of getting out and can't do anything with the character as they are a spellcaster.
The DM railroaded that one hard and wanted you to fail (why even have you make a save if you can't save from it?).
At this point I would talk with the DM and see what their idea moving forward is. Do you make a new character? Do you have to play as the feebleminded PC?
Based on that and a discussion around no-win scenarios I would see if playing at the table is still in the cards or not.
Unless this is the DM's messed up idea of giving you your character arc or is planning something where your patron will save you and make you its champion, you are pretty much at the end of the line for this character. Talk with DM as to why this happened and if it had to happen. DM might have miscalculated and/or overdid the difficulty. All I can say is good luck.
Yeah I was not sure if I have to wait for my party while I try to live through hell without dying there or if the Wizard of our groups was meant to save me with a counterspell. Not sure how I feel about that.
Yeah I was not sure if I have to wait for my party while I try to live through hell without dying there or if the Wizard of our groups was meant to save me with a counterspell. Not sure how I feel about that.
I can only tell you how I would feel about it....pretty angry.
It was a no win for you as you got jumped and the spell DC was higher than what you could have possibly rolled and then not only got feebleminded which is a rough enough time (albeit manageable) you got plane shifted to hell.
Your Wizard would have only been able to counterspell one of them anyway right? And what would you have guessed that the 3 casters all had counterspell....
No this was a No-Win Scenario and IMO a bullshit one at that since it effectively kills your character off in the worst way possible...to suffer in Hell feebleminded.
4 spells on one character in a round all targeting their lowest save is some railroading, but you are all 14th level. Retirement isn't an option for most adventurers.
You have no reasonable chance of being saved and with an int of 1 you cannot reasonably help yourself in any way. And you can never make the save now that you are feebleminded.
So what to do? Here are some options:
1. Roll up a new character and come to the table excited to play them. You are a spellcaster in hell with an int of 1. You are dead. Its OK. Either your DM will back pedal or get you started on a new character. Either way moving on yourself will help ease the situation.
2. Do nothing. If your DM asks what you do in Hell, tell him you have an int of 1. You don't get to have strategy, and you don't get to make good choices. You just get to wander around like a beast to keep yourself fed. Turn the tables and ask him what you do. If he gets defensive proceed back to 1. You do not have to roleplay as a feebleminded character who can never make his save in hell.
I agree with the others you need to ask your DM about what to do next. It might be something like you roll up a new, temporary character while the surviving party members mount a rescue mission. (I guess a big question would be if someone feebleminded could think to try a divine intervention roll, which would probably be your best chance of fixing at least one of the problems. But that’s going to be a DM call if someone who can’t communicate intelligibily can still call upon their god.) If you’re a level 14 cleric, you’re likely very important to the church, they’d probably want to send someone to help you. Ideally someone with greater restoration or heal.
And I don’t know if i agree with the others that I’d be angry, though. There’s a fine line in this case between railroading and the enemy casters playing smart and tactically. Most clerics are easily identifiable, take out the healer first is a pretty standard plan. The enemy casters know what they’re doing and focused fire. If a party of PCs did the same thing, it would be a good plan and there would be high-5’s all around. Seems fair to turn the tables. It sucks when you’re on the losing end, but sometimes that’s what happens.
3 casters vs. the party can be a pretty big game of rocket tag I know....but this one was pretty obviously a railroad job IMO.
The 4 person party (with mixed creatures mind you) all come in exactly after the clerics turn. They all take their turn to set up a specific combination of spells that all target the weakest save of a single character with a DC that is straight up unavoidable for the PC to even make with a natural 20.
A spell save DC of 21+ means that any one of those casters has a spell DC higher than a Lich.....which is a CR 21 creature and itself would be more than a challenge for a 3 person party of level 14s.
This on top of a CR 10 creature and what I assume is a Boneclaw which is CR 12.
This encounter is off the scales even for a 3 person party of level 14s....particularly with a cleric as the only source of being able to counter the effects of Feeblemind (and they cannot make the save regardless remember).
This reeks of "I want you in hell for this next part of the story" which is a terrible way to transition the story IMO.
3 casters vs. the party can be a pretty big game of rocket tag I know....but this one was pretty obviously a railroad job IMO.
The 4 person party (with mixed creatures mind you) all come in exactly after the clerics turn. They all take their turn to set up a specific combination of spells that all target the weakest save of a single character with a DC that is straight up unavoidable for the PC to even make with a natural 20.
A spell save DC of 21+ means that any one of those casters has a spell DC higher than a Lich.....which is a CR 21 creature and itself would be more than a challenge for a 3 person party of level 14s.
This on top of a CR 10 creature and what I assume is a Boneclaw which is CR 12.
This encounter is off the scales even for a 3 person party of level 14s....particularly with a cleric as the only source of being able to counter the effects of Feeblemind (and they cannot make the save regardless remember).
This reeks of "I want you in hell for this next part of the story" which is a terrible way to transition the story IMO.
Funny thing is being the party's support has been my main job for a while now and I guess I did my job to well due to no party death's besides me due to a early Bane assassin attack when we were still leveling and proving myself to Tempus. I think I will roll a back up guy just in case but I am willing to see thing Cleric through.
I agree with the others you need to ask your DM about what to do next. It might be something like you roll up a new, temporary character while the surviving party members mount a rescue mission. (I guess a big question would be if someone feebleminded could think to try a divine intervention roll, which would probably be your best chance of fixing at least one of the problems. But that’s going to be a DM call if someone who can’t communicate intelligibily can still call upon their god.) If you’re a level 14 cleric, you’re likely very important to the church, they’d probably want to send someone to help you. Ideally someone with greater restoration or heal.
And I don’t know if i agree with the others that I’d be angry, though. There’s a fine line in this case between railroading and the enemy casters playing smart and tactically. Most clerics are easily identifiable, take out the healer first is a pretty standard plan. The enemy casters know what they’re doing and focused fire. If a party of PCs did the same thing, it would be a good plan and there would be high-5’s all around. Seems fair to turn the tables. It sucks when you’re on the losing end, but sometimes that’s what happens.
If I were to Divine intervention and Tempus just heard noises from me you think he would go into a panic trying to get something ready or just do his normal thing and find a stronger warrior to spend his time on?
I agree with the others you need to ask your DM about what to do next. It might be something like you roll up a new, temporary character while the surviving party members mount a rescue mission. (I guess a big question would be if someone feebleminded could think to try a divine intervention roll, which would probably be your best chance of fixing at least one of the problems. But that’s going to be a DM call if someone who can’t communicate intelligibily can still call upon their god.) If you’re a level 14 cleric, you’re likely very important to the church, they’d probably want to send someone to help you. Ideally someone with greater restoration or heal.
And I don’t know if i agree with the others that I’d be angry, though. There’s a fine line in this case between railroading and the enemy casters playing smart and tactically. Most clerics are easily identifiable, take out the healer first is a pretty standard plan. The enemy casters know what they’re doing and focused fire. If a party of PCs did the same thing, it would be a good plan and there would be high-5’s all around. Seems fair to turn the tables. It sucks when you’re on the losing end, but sometimes that’s what happens.
If I were to Divine intervention and Tempus just heard noises from me you think he would go into a panic trying to get something ready or just do his normal thing and find a stronger warrior to spend his time on?
Well, that would be a DM’s call. But I don’t think it would take much effort, let alone a panic, to at least give you the effects of a restoration spell to undo the feeblemind. I think He’d be willing to give a devoted servant a fighting chance, not just turn his back on you. Level 14 clerics are quite rare (campaign dependent, etc.), he’d want to keep you around.
If I were to Divine intervention and Tempus just heard noises from me you think he would go into a panic trying to get something ready or just do his normal thing and find a stronger warrior to spend his time on?
It's actually a little bit unclear whether Divine Intervention requires your character to speak; the rule says "Describe the assistance you seek", but does your character need to speak it, or are you the player just telling your DM "I'd like Greater Restoration cast upon me". I'd say that an INT 1 creature is capable of being in distress, but does it understand the concept of help, or beseeching a deity? That's all up to your DM.
But as others say it's really all going to depend upon what your DM's plan is here; if by hell you mean Avernus, then there are creatures there that may help you in exchange for something in return (that you probably won't want to do, they're called infernal contracts for a reason). However you have an interesting advantage if that's their plan, because with an INT of 1 you can't exactly agree to a contract without being helped first*, which means that once they've undone Feeblemind for you, you could have an opportunity to escape without giving them anything in return (though you may want to try negotiating first, as they've done you a favour and not repaying them is just rude, devil or not).
*An Antimagic Field might temporarily nullify Feeblemind but I'm a bit unclear about that as it's an instantaneous spell, not ongoing in the normal sense (even though its impact is persistent).
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If I were to Divine intervention and Tempus just heard noises from me you think he would go into a panic trying to get something ready or just do his normal thing and find a stronger warrior to spend his time on?
It's actually a little bit unclear whether Divine Intervention requires your character to speak; the rule says "Describe the assistance you seek", but does your character need to speak it, or are you the player just telling your DM "I'd like Greater Restoration cast upon me". I'd say that an INT 1 creature is capable of being in distress, but does it understand the concept of help, or beseeching a deity? That's all up to your DM.
But as others say it's really all going to depend upon what your DM's plan is here; if by hell you mean Avernus, then there are creatures there that may help you in exchange for something in return (that you probably won't want to do, they're called infernal contracts for a reason). However you have an interesting advantage if that's their plan, because with an INT of 1 you can't exactly agree to a contract without being helped first*, which means that once they've undone Feeblemind for you, you could have an opportunity to escape without giving them anything in return (though you may want to try negotiating first, as they've done you a favour and not repaying them is just rude, devil or not).
*An Antimagic Field might temporarily nullify Feeblemind but I'm a bit unclear about that as it's an instantaneous spell, not ongoing in the normal sense (even though its impact is persistent).
Well I'm going to be FeebleMinded so I don't think me finding a devil would help due to having such a low int I would just see it as a threating monster in hell, because of my past record of being tortured last time I was in hell. That and all my past dealing with them has be in a painful and threating manner.
Also not to besmirch your DM too much....I doubt they will allow this level of nuance if their plan is to have you continue with the cleric character. My gut tells me the cleric is now just a plot point that needs to be saved and your party will be doing it.
Or worse yet the cleric is just forgotten and never addressed again.
I am not sure which one I would like less but for your sake I hope I am wrong.
Also not to besmirch your DM too much....I doubt they will allow this level of nuance if their plan is to have you continue with the cleric character. My gut tells me the cleric is now just a plot point that needs to be saved and your party will be doing it.
Or worse yet the cleric is just forgotten and never addressed again.
I am not sure which one I would like less but for your sake I hope I am wrong.
I doubt that I will be forgotten due to the risk in leaving me down there. The devils have been taking Arcane spellcaster(My guess around level 6-8 casters) from Essembra and turning them into vessels for Bone Devils to use. That and leaving me down there to the chance I do get converted I have battle plans and location of important defenses around Essembra.
Also not to besmirch your DM too much....I doubt they will allow this level of nuance if their plan is to have you continue with the cleric character. My gut tells me the cleric is now just a plot point that needs to be saved and your party will be doing it.
Or worse yet the cleric is just forgotten and never addressed again.
I am not sure which one I would like less but for your sake I hope I am wrong.
I doubt that I will be forgotten due to the risk in leaving me down there. The devils have been taking Arcane spellcaster(My guess around level 6-8 casters) from Essembra and turning them into vessels for Bone Devils to use. That and leaving me down there to the chance I do get converted I have battle plans and location of important defenses around Essembra.
I hope that you get to part of the rescue plan at least! What would your back up build be?
I was planning on split on making a Blood Hunter or a Necro Wizard. Blood hunter for a mage hunter build and Necro Wizard for the large amount of grunt undead forces topside.
I was planning on split on making a Blood Hunter or a Necro Wizard. Blood hunter for a mage hunter build and Necro Wizard for the large amount of grunt undead forces topside.
Both sound like fun...I haven't played a blood hunter yet but I hear they are a good time.
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So quick run down we off some undead leering around Essembra then spent a day there. The leader of the city (A powerful Wizard) came to us for help the next day asking us to bring stop these magic brewing pots(Think portals to a maggot hellhole and there are 4 in total) that were being brought by the local undead to a nearby town saying if the local undead manage to bring the pots to the town they would hit a critical mass overrunning the landmass. We agreed to aid her and she gave us info of the location of 1 brewing pot and teleported us to a location 1 hour ahead of the brewing pot. We get ready (Just Me(A Cleric), a Monk and a Wizard all Level 14) with a few spell castings (Forbiddance by our party's Wizard and me with my Planar Ally).
Wizard still casting the spell so new objective protect the Wizard for 10 minutes from forward scouting parties of undead. We defend him till that is done and start moving ahead towards the Brewing pot that is still being moved forward. We find a small group of undead that are guarding the Brewing pot with maggots covering them offing them. Wizard cast a spell to pick it up with a disk (Pots can't be magically teleported). Monk had a homebrewed skill that he could use to cast Pass Without a Trace for Ki points, Wizard cast a masking spell on the Brewing Pot making it harder to find. We begin to move through the thick overgrown woods at stealth-pase (Painfully Slow!) within a 30 minutes after stealth we stared finding scouts of Imps(Was invisible) and lesser Demons around looking for us. We offed 1 Imp before it could cry out and thought it would be a bad idea to leave a body trail behind us while trying to move this thing.
Few more minutes pass and we find a long bone claw lich thing moving about looking with great speed around the area (Likely found the Imp we offed earlier) and we start combat with it due to the Wizard low stealth roll. Combat starts with killing another nearby Imp that appeared to be enhanced upon death to make a massive scream that sounded like a woman's voice. Next round Undead bone claw lich thing attacks Monk. Me and the Wizard with our 24 passive perception see Skywriting that is unknown to me , but the Wizard makes it out for Abyssal saying "He is here". Wizard already took his turn so is unable to speak due to him casting a spell that turn so I still know nothing. I take my round hitting the Undead with spells and right after my turn is up a 4 man party appears behind me(3 casters and a Orthon) The new party starts their turn with 4 spells (Not sure how but all were Int saves) I rolled a nat 20, 4, and another nat 20. Turns out the second to last spell that I rolled a nat 20 was on a Feeble mind and I still failed so making that spellcaster's spell save somewhere in the range 21 or higher (Only had 10 Int).
So now Feeble minded the same caster cased another spell somehow sending me to Hell! Being Feeble Minded I had no chance of success. So Now I am trapped in Hell, Feeble Minded, and no way to know where I am.
That being said I have been to hell once for a week or so after being killed by a Hell-fire weapon in the pass and remade into a devil for a short time before my Cleric teacher brought me back to a new body.
What is your guys thoughts? I know I am at a lost for words.
Yeah you are in a very bad situation...I do not really see a way out unless they come get you and use one of the prescribed spells to reverse the situation.
Otherwise you are effectively dead as you have no real way of getting out and can't do anything with the character as they are a spellcaster.
The DM railroaded that one hard and wanted you to fail (why even have you make a save if you can't save from it?).
At this point I would talk with the DM and see what their idea moving forward is. Do you make a new character? Do you have to play as the feebleminded PC?
Based on that and a discussion around no-win scenarios I would see if playing at the table is still in the cards or not.
Unless this is the DM's messed up idea of giving you your character arc or is planning something where your patron will save you and make you its champion, you are pretty much at the end of the line for this character. Talk with DM as to why this happened and if it had to happen. DM might have miscalculated and/or overdid the difficulty. All I can say is good luck.
Yeah I was not sure if I have to wait for my party while I try to live through hell without dying there or if the Wizard of our groups was meant to save me with a counterspell. Not sure how I feel about that.
I can only tell you how I would feel about it....pretty angry.
It was a no win for you as you got jumped and the spell DC was higher than what you could have possibly rolled and then not only got feebleminded which is a rough enough time (albeit manageable) you got plane shifted to hell.
Your Wizard would have only been able to counterspell one of them anyway right? And what would you have guessed that the 3 casters all had counterspell....
No this was a No-Win Scenario and IMO a bullshit one at that since it effectively kills your character off in the worst way possible...to suffer in Hell feebleminded.
4 spells on one character in a round all targeting their lowest save is some railroading, but you are all 14th level. Retirement isn't an option for most adventurers.
You have no reasonable chance of being saved and with an int of 1 you cannot reasonably help yourself in any way. And you can never make the save now that you are feebleminded.
So what to do? Here are some options:
1. Roll up a new character and come to the table excited to play them. You are a spellcaster in hell with an int of 1. You are dead. Its OK. Either your DM will back pedal or get you started on a new character. Either way moving on yourself will help ease the situation.
2. Do nothing. If your DM asks what you do in Hell, tell him you have an int of 1. You don't get to have strategy, and you don't get to make good choices. You just get to wander around like a beast to keep yourself fed. Turn the tables and ask him what you do. If he gets defensive proceed back to 1. You do not have to roleplay as a feebleminded character who can never make his save in hell.
I agree with the others you need to ask your DM about what to do next. It might be something like you roll up a new, temporary character while the surviving party members mount a rescue mission. (I guess a big question would be if someone feebleminded could think to try a divine intervention roll, which would probably be your best chance of fixing at least one of the problems. But that’s going to be a DM call if someone who can’t communicate intelligibily can still call upon their god.) If you’re a level 14 cleric, you’re likely very important to the church, they’d probably want to send someone to help you. Ideally someone with greater restoration or heal.
And I don’t know if i agree with the others that I’d be angry, though. There’s a fine line in this case between railroading and the enemy casters playing smart and tactically. Most clerics are easily identifiable, take out the healer first is a pretty standard plan. The enemy casters know what they’re doing and focused fire. If a party of PCs did the same thing, it would be a good plan and there would be high-5’s all around. Seems fair to turn the tables. It sucks when you’re on the losing end, but sometimes that’s what happens.
3 casters vs. the party can be a pretty big game of rocket tag I know....but this one was pretty obviously a railroad job IMO.
The 4 person party (with mixed creatures mind you) all come in exactly after the clerics turn. They all take their turn to set up a specific combination of spells that all target the weakest save of a single character with a DC that is straight up unavoidable for the PC to even make with a natural 20.
A spell save DC of 21+ means that any one of those casters has a spell DC higher than a Lich.....which is a CR 21 creature and itself would be more than a challenge for a 3 person party of level 14s.
This on top of a CR 10 creature and what I assume is a Boneclaw which is CR 12.
This encounter is off the scales even for a 3 person party of level 14s....particularly with a cleric as the only source of being able to counter the effects of Feeblemind (and they cannot make the save regardless remember).
This reeks of "I want you in hell for this next part of the story" which is a terrible way to transition the story IMO.
Funny thing is being the party's support has been my main job for a while now and I guess I did my job to well due to no party death's besides me due to a early Bane assassin attack when we were still leveling and proving myself to Tempus. I think I will roll a back up guy just in case but I am willing to see thing Cleric through.
If I were to Divine intervention and Tempus just heard noises from me you think he would go into a panic trying to get something ready or just do his normal thing and find a stronger warrior to spend his time on?
Well, that would be a DM’s call. But I don’t think it would take much effort, let alone a panic, to at least give you the effects of a restoration spell to undo the feeblemind. I think He’d be willing to give a devoted servant a fighting chance, not just turn his back on you. Level 14 clerics are quite rare (campaign dependent, etc.), he’d want to keep you around.
It's actually a little bit unclear whether Divine Intervention requires your character to speak; the rule says "Describe the assistance you seek", but does your character need to speak it, or are you the player just telling your DM "I'd like Greater Restoration cast upon me". I'd say that an INT 1 creature is capable of being in distress, but does it understand the concept of help, or beseeching a deity? That's all up to your DM.
But as others say it's really all going to depend upon what your DM's plan is here; if by hell you mean Avernus, then there are creatures there that may help you in exchange for something in return (that you probably won't want to do, they're called infernal contracts for a reason). However you have an interesting advantage if that's their plan, because with an INT of 1 you can't exactly agree to a contract without being helped first*, which means that once they've undone Feeblemind for you, you could have an opportunity to escape without giving them anything in return (though you may want to try negotiating first, as they've done you a favour and not repaying them is just rude, devil or not).
*An Antimagic Field might temporarily nullify Feeblemind but I'm a bit unclear about that as it's an instantaneous spell, not ongoing in the normal sense (even though its impact is persistent).
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Well I'm going to be FeebleMinded so I don't think me finding a devil would help due to having such a low int I would just see it as a threating monster in hell, because of my past record of being tortured last time I was in hell. That and all my past dealing with them has be in a painful and threating manner.
Also not to besmirch your DM too much....I doubt they will allow this level of nuance if their plan is to have you continue with the cleric character. My gut tells me the cleric is now just a plot point that needs to be saved and your party will be doing it.
Or worse yet the cleric is just forgotten and never addressed again.
I am not sure which one I would like less but for your sake I hope I am wrong.
I doubt that I will be forgotten due to the risk in leaving me down there. The devils have been taking Arcane spellcaster(My guess around level 6-8 casters) from Essembra and turning them into vessels for Bone Devils to use. That and leaving me down there to the chance I do get converted I have battle plans and location of important defenses around Essembra.
I hope that you get to part of the rescue plan at least! What would your back up build be?
I was planning on split on making a Blood Hunter or a Necro Wizard. Blood hunter for a mage hunter build and Necro Wizard for the large amount of grunt undead forces topside.
Both sound like fun...I haven't played a blood hunter yet but I hear they are a good time.