It feels like people don't know gods only offer certain domains.
So you can worship a god that doesn't offer Life domain, and yet somehow still choose it at level 3. Somehow. And either it betrays the existing cannon. Or, it was a choice you needed to have made in advance at L1 when you picked the god that would grant the domain you intended to pick later.
Because not all gods hold sway over all domains.
Or is that something 2024 is getting rid of now despite it being cannon forever.
Someone got clarity on that?
You could worship a god that doesn't offer life domain and pick it at level 1 in 5e.
False.
Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it.
True.
Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it.
You... still have to pick a domain related to your diety. That's required.
The list of dieties are just examples. But your domain MUST be associated with that diety you do end up picking. Per that very quote. Idk how you missed it.
Considering that they are literal deities, I think you can connect any deity to any domain fairly easily. That is just fluff text anyways,
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
I would look at it from an in characters point of view.
The abilities of a cleric are given by their god, they might be given certain choices like preparing spells each day but your abilities must be consistent with what your god would bestow.
The you serve Eldeth at levels 1 and 2 then the abilites you get at level 3 must be consisteent with her ways, life, peace and nature would work war and forge not. This is not really different from not being able to shape shift into a beast at level 2 because you choose cleric at level 1.
The easiest way to work this out of character is to plan ahead, if you want to play a War cleric choose a suitable god. Or agree with your DM a cool concept of why you would be a war domain cleric serving Eldeth.
If you do find you want to play a subclass inconsistent with the god you chose talk to your DM. Maybe the gods are fighting over you and an angel or cleric of another god appears to convince you to convert to them.
Mechanically you can be a war domain cleric serving Eldeth and your DM might just go along with that. Will that create issues between you and your god? Maybe, that depends on the DM. Personnally I just don't think it is right.
It feels like people don't know gods only offer certain domains.
So you can worship a god that doesn't offer Life domain, and yet somehow still choose it at level 3. Somehow. And either it betrays the existing cannon. Or, it was a choice you needed to have made in advance at L1 when you picked the god that would grant the domain you intended to pick later.
Because not all gods hold sway over all domains.
Or is that something 2024 is getting rid of now despite it being cannon forever.
Someone got clarity on that?
You could worship a god that doesn't offer life domain and pick it at level 1 in 5e.
False.
Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it.
True.
Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it.
You... still have to pick a domain related to your diety. That's required.
The list of dieties are just examples. But your domain MUST be associated with that diety you do end up picking. Per that very quote. Idk how you missed it.
Considering that they are literal deities, I think you can connect any deity to any domain fairly easily. That is just fluff text anyways,
It... isn't fluff text. It is the text directly from the cleric ability that gives you a Subclass. And it tells you directly to pick a domain associated with your god. It is unambiguous.
Anywho. I guess the answer is:
2024 changed the longstanding lore that gods have control over specific domains. Because the relationship between your 2024 cleric's god has with your domain selection is no longer linked.
Which is low key crazy lore changes to sneak into the game.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
Considering that you can very easily convince a DM of how any deity is related to any domain, I don't think they really changed anything, but we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
Considering that you can very easily convince a DM of how any deity is related to any domain, I don't think they really changed anything, but we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.
I will agree to disagree with objectively false information. Sure.
There is longstanding lore about dieties and domains. You can be oblivious of that, that's your perogative. But you being wrong about factual information isn't an "opinion" people are disagreeing with. It is just being wrong.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
Considering that you can very easily convince a DM of how any deity is related to any domain, I don't think they really changed anything, but we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.
I will agree to disagree with objectively false information. Sure.
There is longstanding lore about dieties and domains. You can be oblivious of that, that's your perogative. But you being wrong about factual information isn't an "opinion" people are disagreeing with. It is just being wrong.
I don't have access to a lot of the 2014 books handy but is there actually text that explicitly says that deities only have specific domains? The linked table above notes that the domains for each deity is only a suggestion.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
Once you’ve chosen a deity, consider your cleric’s relationship to that god. Did you enter this service willingly? Or did the god choose you, impelling you into service with no regard for your wishes? How do the temple priests of your faith regard you: as a champion or a troublemaker? What are your ultimate goals? Does your deity have a special task in mind for you? Or are you striving to prove yourself worthy of a great quest?
Seems totally open to a deity choosing you as a "champion" but you having the choice of how to serve. And if you think that WAR domain is how you answer that call then maybe that is how you "cahennel" the divine engery granted to you. Maybe the deity is playing a long game to convert you, or use you as an example of why Might does not make Right? The ways of gods are mysterious indeed.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
Uhm, no.
Ninja edit: Changes domains from things gods control to simply names of subclasses. Then changes text to say pick any domain.
Non-ninja lore change: Circa year 1495 DR, the gods now have dominion over all domains and can grant any domain powers to their clerics.
Ninja edits are when the change is done and isn't direct about it. We have to INFERE the change based on rules changes elsewhere.
The fact that the god of life can now have war clerics is wild. And the fact they snuck in this lore change is nuts. They're not out here openly talking about the cosmology or systems of divinity changing. We just have to infere that they have because they do weird shit now all of a sudden that they didn't before.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
Considering that you can very easily convince a DM of how any deity is related to any domain, I don't think they really changed anything, but we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.
I will agree to disagree with objectively false information. Sure.
There is longstanding lore about dieties and domains. You can be oblivious of that, that's your perogative. But you being wrong about factual information isn't an "opinion" people are disagreeing with. It is just being wrong.
I don't have access to a lot of the 2014 books handy but is there actually text that explicitly says that deities only have specific domains? The linked table above notes that the domains for each deity is only a suggestion.
I think the misconception is think domains are only subclasses. But they're not. Not primarily.
They're spheres of cosmic influence that gods might have access to. Lesser gods have less. Greater gods have more.
Clerics of a god, then,are granted access to one of these domains by their god. In 5e this is represented by subclass choice. But domains are bigger than subclass choice. Cosmologically speaking.
So the fact that in 2024 rules gods can now grant access to a domain that they themselves don't have access too is a massive table flip of the cosmology lore of dnd.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
Uhm, no.
Ninja edit: Changes domains from things gods control to simply names of subclasses. Then changes text to say pick any domain.
Non-ninja lore change: Circa year 1495 DR, the gods now have dominion over all domains and can grant any domain powers to their clerics.
Ninja edits are when the change is done and isn't direct about it. We have to INFERE the change based on rules changes elsewhere.
The fact that the god of life can now have war clerics is wild. And the fact they snuck in this lore change is nuts. They're not out here openly talking about the cosmology or systems of divinity changing. We just have to infere that they have because they do weird shit now all of a sudden that they didn't before.
Player: "I want to be a war domain for the life god."
DM: "How does that work?"
Player: "I am protecting living things."
It is as easy as that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
Considering that you can very easily convince a DM of how any deity is related to any domain, I don't think they really changed anything, but we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.
I will agree to disagree with objectively false information. Sure.
There is longstanding lore about dieties and domains. You can be oblivious of that, that's your perogative. But you being wrong about factual information isn't an "opinion" people are disagreeing with. It is just being wrong.
I don't have access to a lot of the 2014 books handy but is there actually text that explicitly says that deities only have specific domains? The linked table above notes that the domains for each deity is only a suggestion.
I think the misconception is think domains are only subclasses. But they're not. Not primarily.
They're spheres of cosmic influence that gods might have access to. Lesser gods have less. Greater gods have more.
Clerics of a god, then,are granted access to one of these domains by their god. In 5e this is represented by subclass choice. But domains are bigger than subclass choice. Cosmologically speaking.
So the fact that in 2024 rules gods can now grant access to a domain that they themselves don't have access too is a massive table flip of the cosmology lore of dnd.
I don't really have any beef with the idea that the domains a god can provide power for is dependent and limited by their cosmic influence as you mentioned, I think that's a perfectly fair interpretation of what's written. I am just really politely asking for where it specifically says this is an objective truth as you claim, because I think that's the stickler here for a lot of ppl and I don't see it in any of the material I have access to (tbf I don't have a lot). As far as I'm able to interpret what's written, domains are very important thematic tools for Clerics but very little interaction with anything else. Discussing a god's cosmological sphere of influence doesn't seem like it is exactly the same as discussing a domain.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
Uhm, no.
Ninja edit: Changes domains from things gods control to simply names of subclasses. Then changes text to say pick any domain.
Non-ninja lore change: Circa year 1495 DR, the gods now have dominion over all domains and can grant any domain powers to their clerics.
Ninja edits are when the change is done and isn't direct about it. We have to INFERE the change based on rules changes elsewhere.
The fact that the god of life can now have war clerics is wild. And the fact they snuck in this lore change is nuts. They're not out here openly talking about the cosmology or systems of divinity changing. We just have to infere that they have because they do weird shit now all of a sudden that they didn't before.
According to the definition of a "ninja edit" you are presenting here, the vast majority of changes made in the new edition would be ninja edits because they are not accompanied by detailed explanations as to how, when, and why each change was made. Personally, I'm glad we don't have that kind of bloat bogging down the rule books.
Lots of people here, including me, obviously disagree with you that the opening up of domains across all gods is "wild", "nuts", or "weird". Plenty of great examples have been presented that pretty much any combination of deity and domain can work, if it fits the character and campaign. And you yourself acknowledged in post 26 that you actually think opening up these character options is great. So, I am not sure why you are now doubling down again on your outrage about the change?
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
Uhm, no.
Ninja edit: Changes domains from things gods control to simply names of subclasses. Then changes text to say pick any domain.
Non-ninja lore change: Circa year 1495 DR, the gods now have dominion over all domains and can grant any domain powers to their clerics.
Ninja edits are when the change is done and isn't direct about it. We have to INFERE the change based on rules changes elsewhere.
The fact that the god of life can now have war clerics is wild. And the fact they snuck in this lore change is nuts. They're not out here openly talking about the cosmology or systems of divinity changing. We just have to infere that they have because they do weird shit now all of a sudden that they didn't before.
Player: "I want to be a war domain for the life god."
DM: "How does that work?"
Player: "I am protecting living things."
It is as easy as that.
... right. Which is a change from 2014. The way-it-works changed. But we agree it works this way.
The point isn't "can you" it is a totally different point now.
It is "Oh my! They changed how the cosmology of the dnd universes work and hid that massive change in a subtle wording change for cleric subclass selection. Crazy."
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
Uhm, no.
Ninja edit: Changes domains from things gods control to simply names of subclasses. Then changes text to say pick any domain.
Non-ninja lore change: Circa year 1495 DR, the gods now have dominion over all domains and can grant any domain powers to their clerics.
Ninja edits are when the change is done and isn't direct about it. We have to INFERE the change based on rules changes elsewhere.
The fact that the god of life can now have war clerics is wild. And the fact they snuck in this lore change is nuts. They're not out here openly talking about the cosmology or systems of divinity changing. We just have to infere that they have because they do weird shit now all of a sudden that they didn't before.
According to the definition of a "ninja edit" you are presenting here, the vast majority of changes made in the new edition would be ninja edits because they are not accompanied by detailed explanations as to how, when, and why each change was made. Personally, I'm glad we don't have that kind of bloat bogging down the rule books.
Lots of people here, including me, obviously disagree with you that the opening up of domains across all gods is "wild", "nuts", or "weird". Plenty of great examples have been presented that pretty much any combination of deity and domain can work, if it fits the character and campaign. And you yourself acknowledged in post 26 that you actually think opening up these character options is great. So, I am not sure why you are now doubling down again on your outrage about the change?
I'm just seeing a bunch of people who seem to think domains are JUST cleric subclasses. Which is itself kinda weird. Because thats... not what domains are.
Domains are cosmic wells of primordial divine magic that gods themselves tap into. Gods only have access to a few domains each.
If a life god gained access to a war domain, it would do so by becoming warlike. The thematic, traditions, trappings, etc of a god shift and then their domains could shift.
That's why domains are the suggested domain, because a DM's interpretation of any particular god could be different than the suggested one based on his interpretation of his game world.
But a god with access to war, and life, for example, even if it differs slightly from some written source, can't then grant a cleric access to the knowledge domain. Because IT doesn't have access to the knowledge domain. It has war, and life. So that's what it can grant to its clerics. Historically this is how it has always worked. In all previous editions with domains. Even in the "current edition" (2014) it still is this same thing.
So, they've undone a core principle of cosmology in dnd lore. And it was hidden in a subtle wording change in cleric subclass selection.
That's absolutely a ninja edit. If you don't think so you either don't understand what is being discussed, or think nothing meets the definition of ninja edit.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
Considering that you can very easily convince a DM of how any deity is related to any domain, I don't think they really changed anything, but we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.
I will agree to disagree with objectively false information. Sure.
There is longstanding lore about dieties and domains. You can be oblivious of that, that's your perogative. But you being wrong about factual information isn't an "opinion" people are disagreeing with. It is just being wrong.
I don't have access to a lot of the 2014 books handy but is there actually text that explicitly says that deities only have specific domains? The linked table above notes that the domains for each deity is only a suggestion.
I think the misconception is think domains are only subclasses. But they're not. Not primarily.
They're spheres of cosmic influence that gods might have access to. Lesser gods have less. Greater gods have more.
Clerics of a god, then,are granted access to one of these domains by their god. In 5e this is represented by subclass choice. But domains are bigger than subclass choice. Cosmologically speaking.
So the fact that in 2024 rules gods can now grant access to a domain that they themselves don't have access too is a massive table flip of the cosmology lore of dnd.
I don't really have any beef with the idea that the domains a god can provide power for is dependent and limited by their cosmic influence as you mentioned, I think that's a perfectly fair interpretation of what's written. I am just really politely asking for where it specifically says this is an objective truth as you claim, because I think that's the stickler here for a lot of ppl and I don't see it in any of the material I have access to (tbf I don't have a lot). As far as I'm able to interpret what's written, domains are very important thematic tools for Clerics but very little interaction with anything else. Discussing a god's cosmological sphere of influence doesn't seem like it is exactly the same as discussing a domain.
I'm not ignoring you I've just been chatting here via phone this week. I'll pull some info for you this weekend.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
Uhm, no.
Ninja edit: Changes domains from things gods control to simply names of subclasses. Then changes text to say pick any domain.
Non-ninja lore change: Circa year 1495 DR, the gods now have dominion over all domains and can grant any domain powers to their clerics.
Ninja edits are when the change is done and isn't direct about it. We have to INFERE the change based on rules changes elsewhere.
The fact that the god of life can now have war clerics is wild. And the fact they snuck in this lore change is nuts. They're not out here openly talking about the cosmology or systems of divinity changing. We just have to infere that they have because they do weird shit now all of a sudden that they didn't before.
Player: "I want to be a war domain for the life god."
DM: "How does that work?"
Player: "I am protecting living things."
It is as easy as that.
... right. Which is a change from 2014. The way-it-works changed. But we agree it works this way.
The point isn't "can you" it is a totally different point now.
It is "Oh my! They changed how the cosmology of the dnd universes work and hid that massive change in a subtle wording change for cleric subclass selection. Crazy."
See?
No, that's how it worked in 2014.
Choose one domain related to your deity...
In a pantheon, every deity has influence over different aspects of mortal life and civilization, called a deity’s domain. All the domains over which a deity has influence are called the deity’s portfolio. For example, the portfolio of the Greek god Apollo includes the domains of Knowledge, Life, and Light. As a cleric, you choose one aspect of your deity’s portfolio to emphasize, and you are granted powers related to that domain.
My post showed how the war domain is related to a life god.
A god of life definitely has influence over war: it's all about people dying.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
Maybe I'll try warlock or sorcerer. Oh. Oops. Uh oh. The problem persists!!
I'm probably laughing.
Considering that they are literal deities, I think you can connect any deity to any domain fairly easily. That is just fluff text anyways,
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
I would look at it from an in characters point of view.
The abilities of a cleric are given by their god, they might be given certain choices like preparing spells each day but your abilities must be consistent with what your god would bestow.
The you serve Eldeth at levels 1 and 2 then the abilites you get at level 3 must be consisteent with her ways, life, peace and nature would work war and forge not. This is not really different from not being able to shape shift into a beast at level 2 because you choose cleric at level 1.
The easiest way to work this out of character is to plan ahead, if you want to play a War cleric choose a suitable god. Or agree with your DM a cool concept of why you would be a war domain cleric serving Eldeth.
If you do find you want to play a subclass inconsistent with the god you chose talk to your DM. Maybe the gods are fighting over you and an angel or cleric of another god appears to convince you to convert to them.
Mechanically you can be a war domain cleric serving Eldeth and your DM might just go along with that. Will that create issues between you and your god? Maybe, that depends on the DM. Personnally I just don't think it is right.
It... isn't fluff text. It is the text directly from the cleric ability that gives you a Subclass. And it tells you directly to pick a domain associated with your god. It is unambiguous.
Anywho. I guess the answer is:
2024 changed the longstanding lore that gods have control over specific domains. Because the relationship between your 2024 cleric's god has with your domain selection is no longer linked.
Which is low key crazy lore changes to sneak into the game.
I'm probably laughing.
I think some level of creativity can link a Domain to most gods you might pick. Maybe not all of them but having that option opens it up widely to some creative storytelling. The Pantheon Tables even list the domains as Suggested Domains. Not to mention that while you may have dedicated your life up to the point at level 2 to a specific god, your journey to level 3 may have changed things enough to devout yourself to a different god/domain than you had started with.
Perhaps you're a Cleric of Silvanus planning to dedicate yourself to the Nature Domain but in the course of your adventures saw that only the gifts imparted by the War Domain would give you the tools you need to protect the wilderness from the aggressive encroachment of civilization, so you take on less-known aspect of your god to do so.
I'm not against that. Opening character options is great. But this one is a recon on some very deep d&d lore. If they plan to recon lore this fundamental it should be done out in the open. Not a ninja edit.
I'm probably laughing.
Considering that you can very easily convince a DM of how any deity is related to any domain, I don't think they really changed anything, but we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
I will agree to disagree with objectively false information. Sure.
There is longstanding lore about dieties and domains. You can be oblivious of that, that's your perogative. But you being wrong about factual information isn't an "opinion" people are disagreeing with. It is just being wrong.
I'm probably laughing.
I don't have access to a lot of the 2014 books handy but is there actually text that explicitly says that deities only have specific domains? The linked table above notes that the domains for each deity is only a suggestion.
A lore revision in the process of a decadal, fundamental rules overhaul is pretty much the opposite of a "ninja edit". It's as much out in the open as it gets.
2014 Cleric:
Once you’ve chosen a deity, consider your cleric’s relationship to that god. Did you enter this service willingly? Or did the god choose you, impelling you into service with no regard for your wishes? How do the temple priests of your faith regard you: as a champion or a troublemaker? What are your ultimate goals? Does your deity have a special task in mind for you? Or are you striving to prove yourself worthy of a great quest?
Seems totally open to a deity choosing you as a "champion" but you having the choice of how to serve. And if you think that WAR domain is how you answer that call then maybe that is how you "cahennel" the divine engery granted to you. Maybe the deity is playing a long game to convert you, or use you as an example of why Might does not make Right? The ways of gods are mysterious indeed.
Life's hard - get a helmet!
Uhm, no.
Ninja edit: Changes domains from things gods control to simply names of subclasses. Then changes text to say pick any domain.
Non-ninja lore change: Circa year 1495 DR, the gods now have dominion over all domains and can grant any domain powers to their clerics.
Ninja edits are when the change is done and isn't direct about it. We have to INFERE the change based on rules changes elsewhere.
The fact that the god of life can now have war clerics is wild. And the fact they snuck in this lore change is nuts. They're not out here openly talking about the cosmology or systems of divinity changing. We just have to infere that they have because they do weird shit now all of a sudden that they didn't before.
I'm probably laughing.
I think the misconception is think domains are only subclasses. But they're not. Not primarily.
They're spheres of cosmic influence that gods might have access to. Lesser gods have less. Greater gods have more.
Clerics of a god, then,are granted access to one of these domains by their god. In 5e this is represented by subclass choice. But domains are bigger than subclass choice. Cosmologically speaking.
So the fact that in 2024 rules gods can now grant access to a domain that they themselves don't have access too is a massive table flip of the cosmology lore of dnd.
I'm probably laughing.
Player: "I want to be a war domain for the life god."
DM: "How does that work?"
Player: "I am protecting living things."
It is as easy as that.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
I don't really have any beef with the idea that the domains a god can provide power for is dependent and limited by their cosmic influence as you mentioned, I think that's a perfectly fair interpretation of what's written. I am just really politely asking for where it specifically says this is an objective truth as you claim, because I think that's the stickler here for a lot of ppl and I don't see it in any of the material I have access to (tbf I don't have a lot). As far as I'm able to interpret what's written, domains are very important thematic tools for Clerics but very little interaction with anything else. Discussing a god's cosmological sphere of influence doesn't seem like it is exactly the same as discussing a domain.
According to the definition of a "ninja edit" you are presenting here, the vast majority of changes made in the new edition would be ninja edits because they are not accompanied by detailed explanations as to how, when, and why each change was made. Personally, I'm glad we don't have that kind of bloat bogging down the rule books.
Lots of people here, including me, obviously disagree with you that the opening up of domains across all gods is "wild", "nuts", or "weird". Plenty of great examples have been presented that pretty much any combination of deity and domain can work, if it fits the character and campaign. And you yourself acknowledged in post 26 that you actually think opening up these character options is great. So, I am not sure why you are now doubling down again on your outrage about the change?
... right. Which is a change from 2014. The way-it-works changed. But we agree it works this way.
The point isn't "can you" it is a totally different point now.
It is "Oh my! They changed how the cosmology of the dnd universes work and hid that massive change in a subtle wording change for cleric subclass selection. Crazy."
See?
I'm probably laughing.
I'm just seeing a bunch of people who seem to think domains are JUST cleric subclasses. Which is itself kinda weird. Because thats... not what domains are.
Domains are cosmic wells of primordial divine magic that gods themselves tap into. Gods only have access to a few domains each.
If a life god gained access to a war domain, it would do so by becoming warlike. The thematic, traditions, trappings, etc of a god shift and then their domains could shift.
That's why domains are the suggested domain, because a DM's interpretation of any particular god could be different than the suggested one based on his interpretation of his game world.
But a god with access to war, and life, for example, even if it differs slightly from some written source, can't then grant a cleric access to the knowledge domain. Because IT doesn't have access to the knowledge domain. It has war, and life. So that's what it can grant to its clerics. Historically this is how it has always worked. In all previous editions with domains. Even in the "current edition" (2014) it still is this same thing.
So, they've undone a core principle of cosmology in dnd lore. And it was hidden in a subtle wording change in cleric subclass selection.
That's absolutely a ninja edit. If you don't think so you either don't understand what is being discussed, or think nothing meets the definition of ninja edit.
I'm probably laughing.
I'm not ignoring you I've just been chatting here via phone this week. I'll pull some info for you this weekend.
I'm probably laughing.
No, that's how it worked in 2014.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature