I have just walked past the house of a local 'cleric.' It is twice as big as mine, and he doesn't have a second job; all of his income is from being a 'cleric.' A couple of times a week he stands up in front of a bunch of people and explains his point of view.
Tell me, how is he different to a politician? (The wizards in your world are in charge, so the analogy fits in your world too.) Because if the media is to be believed, it damned sure ain't the wearing dresses part!
How is a D&D cleric different to a wizard?
The wizard won't bash you over the head for your beliefs. The wizard wants the top job (Arch-mage), and makes no bones about it; the cleric knows there is a glass ceiling (or floor).
I don't recall hearing about Goldmoon tithing (or fiddying - the correct term for giving up half your income) while trying to save Krynn from Takhisis, but if you can't tell the difference between her and Raistlin...........
I would recommend reading the Coldfire Trilogy by Celia S. Friedman. The priest in that is indistinguishable from a fighter, and is one step away from excommunication at the best of times, yet there is no doubt he is a priest, and probably his deity's most favoured servant (meaning he gets to deal with the biggest threats and suffer the most deprivation.)
Elric (The Elric) is arguably the highest ranking priest on Immyyr, and he certainly 'tithes' his fair share of blood and souls to Arioch.
The question should not be "How is a cleric different to a wizard?" but "How is this cleric different and memorable?"
I have just walked past the house of a local 'cleric.' It is twice as big as mine, and he doesn't have a second job; all of his income is from being a 'cleric.' A couple of times a week he stands up in front of a bunch of people and explains his point of view.
Tell me, how is he different to a politician? (The wizards in your world are in charge, so the analogy fits in your world too.) Because if the media is to be believed, it damned sure ain't the wearing dresses part!
How is a D&D cleric different to a wizard?
The wizard won't bash you over the head for your beliefs. The wizard wants the top job (Arch-mage), and makes no bones about it; the cleric knows there is a glass ceiling (or floor).
I don't recall hearing about Goldmoon tithing (or fiddying - the correct term for giving up half your income) while trying to save Krynn from Takhisis, but if you can't tell the difference between her and Raistlin...........
I would recommend reading the Coldfire Trilogy by Celia S. Friedman. The priest in that is indistinguishable from a fighter, and is one step away from excommunication at the best of times, yet there is no doubt he is a priest, and probably his deity's most favoured servant (meaning he gets to deal with the biggest threats and suffer the most deprivation.)
Elric (The Elric) is arguably the highest ranking priest on Immyyr, and he certainly 'tithes' his fair share of blood and souls to Arioch.
The question should not be "How is a cleric different to a wizard?" but "How is this cleric different and memorable?"
Wow, I think you pretty much nailed that one. Definitely liked the Elric comparison, and the parting words are appropriate. 10/10
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Nice - again - as long as their is role play I am happy not just a wizard by another name.
(Also books tend to be a hazy on day to day expenses etc....)
"If I'm going to risk my life saving the world, I never want to pay taxes again! " (I'm not sure how running the world's largest online bookstore qualifies as saving the world but....whatever.)
One thing that seems to have been missed here is that clerics are chosen by their gods, I think one other person has said it should be the player choice what restrictions that brings with it. I have a cleric that left the church because it was corrupt and she has started her own church to her dirty, she doesnt pay tithes exactly, rather uses her money to provide things to members and another who was orphaned and exclusively helps homeless children (great RP stories, but for another post). In the example with the dragon, either the church has a claim to a portion of the treasure as a whole because of a party agreement or something, or the cleric willingly contributes from their share. As a DM you should talk with you players beforehand and discuss what quirks their character has developed and what that means game wise. Since your players are fine with this they obviously knew what being a cleric meant, but please take into consideration why they were chosen to be a cleric and if they are breaking that, just because a church excommunicated you doesn't mean your god has.
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For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
One thing that seems to have been missed here is that clerics are chosen by their gods....
It has not "been missed." In the infinite worlds of D&D there are at least 3 ways that clerics come to serve (or be served by) deities.
Terrible opening statement, but your closing thought redeemed you: "...just because a church excommunicated you doesn't mean your god has." That is a story just begging to be retold....it sure beats amnesia or evil twins or the orphan who is actually the son of the BBEG/BBGG.
Instead of explaining why clerics should not have restriction and tithes, perhaps we should be thinking about reasonable and unreasonable demands that the gods might heap upon their most valued followers...and how some of those followers might twist these holy commandments to their own ends. Let's face it, however clear cut a commandment might be, the priests will still explain how the RAW and the RAI are completely different.
I am struggling to think of a bizarre commandment that hasn't already been taken by one real world religion or another.....help me out here!
I have just walked past the house of a local 'cleric.'
It is twice as big as mine, and he doesn't have a second job; all of his income is from being a 'cleric.'
A couple of times a week he stands up in front of a bunch of people and explains his point of view.
Tell me, how is he different to a politician? (The wizards in your world are in charge, so the analogy fits in your world too.)
Because if the media is to be believed, it damned sure ain't the wearing dresses part!
How is a D&D cleric different to a wizard?
The wizard won't bash you over the head for your beliefs.
The wizard wants the top job (Arch-mage), and makes no bones about it; the cleric knows there is a glass ceiling (or floor).
I don't recall hearing about Goldmoon tithing (or fiddying - the correct term for giving up half your income) while trying to save Krynn from Takhisis, but if you can't tell the difference between her and Raistlin...........
I would recommend reading the Coldfire Trilogy by Celia S. Friedman. The priest in that is indistinguishable from a fighter, and is one step away from excommunication at the best of times, yet there is no doubt he is a priest, and probably his deity's most favoured servant (meaning he gets to deal with the biggest threats and suffer the most deprivation.)
Elric (The Elric) is arguably the highest ranking priest on Immyyr, and he certainly 'tithes' his fair share of blood and souls to Arioch.
The question should not be "How is a cleric different to a wizard?" but "How is this cleric different and memorable?"
Roleplaying since Runequest.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Nice - again - as long as there is role play I am happy not just a wizard by another name.
(Also books tend to be a hazy on day to day expenses etc....)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Yeah but all these miracles come at a price....
(Also kudos for Armageddon quote.)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
One thing that seems to have been missed here is that clerics are chosen by their gods, I think one other person has said it should be the player choice what restrictions that brings with it. I have a cleric that left the church because it was corrupt and she has started her own church to her dirty, she doesnt pay tithes exactly, rather uses her money to provide things to members and another who was orphaned and exclusively helps homeless children (great RP stories, but for another post). In the example with the dragon, either the church has a claim to a portion of the treasure as a whole because of a party agreement or something, or the cleric willingly contributes from their share. As a DM you should talk with you players beforehand and discuss what quirks their character has developed and what that means game wise. Since your players are fine with this they obviously knew what being a cleric meant, but please take into consideration why they were chosen to be a cleric and if they are breaking that, just because a church excommunicated you doesn't mean your god has.
For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
In the infinite worlds of D&D there are at least 3 ways that clerics come to serve (or be served by) deities.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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