People of the forums, I have been plagued by a question for some time now. I have just gotten into D&d as of a few months ago and have just stumbled across something called an Oathbreaker Paladin through Arkan the Cruel (Joe Manganiello). I don’t know where I could find the class (pointers appreciated) but that’s not the object of issue. What IS the issue is that I am faced with a question I can’t find an answer to: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CLERIC TURNS AGAINST THEIR GOD? For example, what would happen if a Grave Cleric was turned into a Revenant? Wouldn’t their very existence be an afront to their deity? Are they now powerless? Or are they transmuted into something much more sinister? What if a Warlock kills their patron? What happens if a Druid actively goes against nature? ARE BETRAYER CLERICS, PACTKILLER WARLOCKS, AND DESOLATION DRUIDS A THING?
The closest thing that comes to mind is the Death Domain Cleric, also from the Dungeon Master's Guide alongside the Oathbreaker Paladin.
I'd be tempted to say a Cleric that turns against their Deity would probably loose their powers, unless they turned to worshiping a different Deity instead, and I'd assume that a Warlock who breaks their pact would similarly become powerless (Unless they are strong enough to assume they could have awakened their own powers)
First thought would be that a Cleric becomes their opposite where possible (Life becomes death or vice versa for example). Maybe borrow spells from a different class and homebrew up a new Domain if a DM is willing to roll with it?
As for Druids, I think there was a Wildfire Druid or something in UA that sounds sort of similar, but I think that was more a necessary destruction thing? Never got round to reading up on it
Alternatively, that would be a good time to explore multi-classing. Use the skills of the new class as flavour for the gifts/corruption of the betrayal.
That would be between you and your DM really for clerics. Traditionally, the thought is that divine magic is granted by a god or goddess in response to their prayers. Another school of thought though, is that clerics access the weave via unique techniques taught by the church. By this school of thought, further progression would not be viable because the church would not train the apostate, but the knowledge already gained would not be lost.
Similarly, the game is not designed for "pact breakers" to lose their pact magic. Further progression wouldn't be given, but there is /nothing/ in the rules to cover powers being unceremoniously stripped from a character. In the case of warlocks, breaking the pact /typically/ means the soul is forfeit. The life itself may be forfeit as well, as a creature powerful enough to grant a pact is likely not going to allow a pact breaker to just go about their business. The idea that the patron is some kind of puppet master that gets to force characters to do what they want is bunk. I'd not play with a DM who tried to force that kind of BS on me.
For druids, check out the Circle of Spores. They are very much a death and decay druid.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Ok, this is where I see a problem iv been looking for an oathbreaker cleric for one of my players and everywhere I look everyone is yelling "They'd just lose their powers" but this is the same for paladins as they are granted power from a god but the subclass still exists (no matter how vague the description) so why not one for clerics?
Paladins don't get their power from a god (they did in old editions, but not this one). "Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." Note the many, implying not all. Paladins get their powers from their oaths. Hence, Oathbreaker for those who break those oaths. Paladins may follow a god, but the god does not necessarily, directly grant them any powers. (Also, there's a tradition of anti-paladins and blackguards that goes back many editions, so they want to keep that flavor alive.)
Clerics don't actually take any oaths, at least mechanically, in game terms. Sure, there might be an oath as part of becoming a cleric, but that's more of an RP thing not hard wred into the class. If a cleric stopped following their god, I think the after effects would be based on what they did next and the DM. (There is nothing for this happening by RAW, so this is just my thoughts) If they converted to a different god, then I'd imagine that god would grant them powers. In game, if it was RP'd well, I'd even allow them to transfer powers on a level-for-level basis, since a god would prefer a higher level servant, especially one they poached from a rival. If they just completely lost their faith, and stopped serving any god at all, then things could go a number of ways. Their god might abandon them, leaving them with their weapon, armor and skill proficiencies, but no spells, channel divinity, domain powers, etc. Depending on the god, the cleric, and the mission, maybe the god would continue to support the cleric in a hope that they would eventually find their faith again. Or if the god realized that the cleric needed their powers to complete a mission that aligns with the god's interests, they might continue to power the cleric for the time being. I think I remember a rule from 1e where a cleric who stopped worshipping a god became a fighter. Considering the many tricks fighters get in this edition, that wouldn't really work. In the end, its going to be totally up to the DM.
They could be getting their powers from a god that approves of thier oathbreaking.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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People of the forums, I have been plagued by a question for some time now. I have just gotten into D&d as of a few months ago and have just stumbled across something called an Oathbreaker Paladin through Arkan the Cruel (Joe Manganiello). I don’t know where I could find the class (pointers appreciated) but that’s not the object of issue. What IS the issue is that I am faced with a question I can’t find an answer to: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CLERIC TURNS AGAINST THEIR GOD? For example, what would happen if a Grave Cleric was turned into a Revenant? Wouldn’t their very existence be an afront to their deity? Are they now powerless? Or are they transmuted into something much more sinister? What if a Warlock kills their patron? What happens if a Druid actively goes against nature? ARE BETRAYER CLERICS, PACTKILLER WARLOCKS, AND DESOLATION DRUIDS A THING?
The closest thing that comes to mind is the Death Domain Cleric, also from the Dungeon Master's Guide alongside the Oathbreaker Paladin.
I'd be tempted to say a Cleric that turns against their Deity would probably loose their powers, unless they turned to worshiping a different Deity instead, and I'd assume that a Warlock who breaks their pact would similarly become powerless (Unless they are strong enough to assume they could have awakened their own powers)
First thought would be that a Cleric becomes their opposite where possible (Life becomes death or vice versa for example). Maybe borrow spells from a different class and homebrew up a new Domain if a DM is willing to roll with it?
As for Druids, I think there was a Wildfire Druid or something in UA that sounds sort of similar, but I think that was more a necessary destruction thing? Never got round to reading up on it
Alternatively, that would be a good time to explore multi-classing. Use the skills of the new class as flavour for the gifts/corruption of the betrayal.
That would be between you and your DM really for clerics. Traditionally, the thought is that divine magic is granted by a god or goddess in response to their prayers. Another school of thought though, is that clerics access the weave via unique techniques taught by the church. By this school of thought, further progression would not be viable because the church would not train the apostate, but the knowledge already gained would not be lost.
Similarly, the game is not designed for "pact breakers" to lose their pact magic. Further progression wouldn't be given, but there is /nothing/ in the rules to cover powers being unceremoniously stripped from a character. In the case of warlocks, breaking the pact /typically/ means the soul is forfeit. The life itself may be forfeit as well, as a creature powerful enough to grant a pact is likely not going to allow a pact breaker to just go about their business. The idea that the patron is some kind of puppet master that gets to force characters to do what they want is bunk. I'd not play with a DM who tried to force that kind of BS on me.
For druids, check out the Circle of Spores. They are very much a death and decay druid.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
You’ve given me much to think about. Much appreciated.
Ok, this is where I see a problem iv been looking for an oathbreaker cleric for one of my players and everywhere I look everyone is yelling "They'd just lose their powers" but this is the same for paladins as they are granted power from a god but the subclass still exists (no matter how vague the description) so why not one for clerics?
Paladins don't get their power from a god (they did in old editions, but not this one). "Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." Note the many, implying not all. Paladins get their powers from their oaths. Hence, Oathbreaker for those who break those oaths. Paladins may follow a god, but the god does not necessarily, directly grant them any powers. (Also, there's a tradition of anti-paladins and blackguards that goes back many editions, so they want to keep that flavor alive.)
Clerics don't actually take any oaths, at least mechanically, in game terms. Sure, there might be an oath as part of becoming a cleric, but that's more of an RP thing not hard wred into the class. If a cleric stopped following their god, I think the after effects would be based on what they did next and the DM. (There is nothing for this happening by RAW, so this is just my thoughts) If they converted to a different god, then I'd imagine that god would grant them powers. In game, if it was RP'd well, I'd even allow them to transfer powers on a level-for-level basis, since a god would prefer a higher level servant, especially one they poached from a rival. If they just completely lost their faith, and stopped serving any god at all, then things could go a number of ways. Their god might abandon them, leaving them with their weapon, armor and skill proficiencies, but no spells, channel divinity, domain powers, etc. Depending on the god, the cleric, and the mission, maybe the god would continue to support the cleric in a hope that they would eventually find their faith again. Or if the god realized that the cleric needed their powers to complete a mission that aligns with the god's interests, they might continue to power the cleric for the time being. I think I remember a rule from 1e where a cleric who stopped worshipping a god became a fighter. Considering the many tricks fighters get in this edition, that wouldn't really work. In the end, its going to be totally up to the DM.
They could be getting their powers from a god that approves of thier oathbreaking.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha