I have discussed it with my DMs and next session, after having met with the storm-god who saved my character in their backstory (sailor), my (already multi-class) character is now going to multi-class into cleric to show a new found devotion.
Kaladin Str 12 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 6
Monk 1/ Tempest Cleric 1/ Eldritch Knight 3
Monk allows me to be an unarmored dexterous spear fighter, which I then improved the martial prowess of and went Gish with EK, using Booming Blade, my leveling plan had been to get Polearm Master and Warcaster, then use some Monk mobility to skirmish, allowing me to terrorize with Booming Blade...
However obviously Cleric has changed my plans, and whilst I will only be taking two level of Tempest Domain Cleric, that will slow the progression of that tactic significantly (but whilst allowing me another reaction, and maxing the damage 1/short rest).
My question is: when I take Fighter 4 at Level 7 (Monk 1/ Tempest Cleric 2/ Eldritch Knight 4), do I take +2 to Wisdom and continue to take my Fighter ASIs to max out my Dex and Wis stats, or is it still worth picking up Warcaster... and then by extension, likely Polearm Master at Level 9.
Spells (because my DMs will not allow me to take any healing spells as part of this, they have allowed limit access to my Wizard spell list for my Cleric spells)
Because of Multiclass rules, I will have four 1st level spell-slots and two 2nd level spell-slots upon taking Tempest Cleric2 (Level 6)
Cleric Spells: Fog Cloud (Tempest Domain) Thunderwave (Tempest Domain) Bane Create or Destroy Water Shield of Faith Chromatic Orb - From Wizard spell list (Only Lightning or Thunder) Feather Fall - From Wizard spell list
2nd Level Misty Step (Mark of the Passage Human)
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
I think you'll know which you'll prefer by the time you're able to get the ASI, but I'd suggest Warcaster.
Thanks Jesse, I totally agree and have been reflecting a lot on how to build my character and when to take each level... which is really complicated when doing a long campaign, that is slow to level, from level one, and you are doing a three class multiclass. :-)
My character cut through their Dragon Mark (Mark of Passage) last session (for plot relevant reasons), and so I have checked and agreed with my DM that I can change Race to Variant Human... and I'm picking up War Caster as part of that...
My stats are also going down from:
Str 12 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 6
Str 12 Dex 16 Con 15 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 6
Then because I am also loosing Misty Step (one of my lower level activators for Booming Blade), I'm going to take Fighter 4 (Polearm Master) and Monk 2 (Ki points) before Cleric 2 (gets me second level spell slots thanks to Spell Casting Multiiclass). With my main way now to activate Booming Blade being Command: "Flee" which with Action Surge lets me do (at level 5) 8d8+6 for a level 1 spell slot and Action Surge. :-)
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
Do you have to take the cleric level? I'd just hesitate since it really does throw off your so many level-based gains from other classes (three classes is a lot, and it will guarantee you won't get your top power in any class, should the campaign last that long). What about Magic initiate: cleric as a feat, still gives you some in-game cleric stuff, but without the commitment of a whole level or 2 for it.
Or just RP as someone who is devoutly religious. There's lots and lots of religious people, only a handful of them (in most campaign worlds) have class levels in cleric. Not everything has to be mechanical.
Also, I don't think command/booming blade would work. Booming blade triggers when a creature willingly moves, and being commanded is not willing movement.
Also, I don't think command/booming blade would work. Booming blade triggers when a creature willingly moves, and being commanded is not willing movement.
Short answer, no I don’t have to take the Cleric level but RP wise it makes a lot of sense beyond simply, Oh I have faith now... but also Mechanics wise it is really strong, especially since the DM let me pick a couple of thematic Wizard spells as compensation for no healing. The real benefit though is from Destructive Wrath, maxing the damage dice of a Lightning or Thunder attack 1/short rest, is very useful for a two level dip that also gives me great spell options and another to +2ac (shield of faith).
And from a little research... you are right, I was operating under the opinion of someone else about using your own movement. It would seem I could still take an Booming Blade opportunity attack it’s secondary affect just wouldn’t trigger. Hmm I am going to have to rethink that.
Edit: with Polearm Master also I could Booming Blade, Monk BA out and then get an AoO when they reengage or Action Surge with the Shove action.
Edit 2: Or my other two Nova possibilities are:
1. Shocking Grasp, Action Surge, Booming Blade, move away and then hopefully another Booming Blade when they reengage (lv6 51 damage).
2. Same but with Monk disengage and Chromatic Orb (Lightning/Thunder) (lv7 55.5 damage or lv8 75 damage).
Edit 3: The above is from going Fighter 4 (Polearm Master), then Monk 2 (Ki for Disengage) and then Cleric 2 (only then getting my second level spell slots and wrath for max dice damage on lightning/thunder 1/ short rest).
Edit 4: Here is my average damage breakdown per level for my Multiclass' Nova Attack, I'd be interested to know how this compares to other characters:
Grasp: Shocking Grasp, Booming Blade (Action Surge) & BA attack (Lv14+), efficient, 1/10 crit +Wrath (53/ 71/ 79.5/ 96.5). Lv5: 30, Lv11 44.5, Lv14: 53, Lv17: 66.5. Reengage, additional AoO damage Lv6 +21, Lv11 +31, Lv17 +40, which if they reengaged and I got the 1/10, lv6 average is 74.
Orb: Booming Blade, Move & Chromatic Orb (Action Surge & Wrath). High resource & target must move. Lv5: 45, Lv8: 54 | Lv11: 63, Lv16: 71, Lv17 80. If the target then reengages there is additional AoO damage: Lv6 +21, Lv11 +31, Lv17 +40. So if the stars aline, at Lv6, average damage of 66.
Your character is betting off just staying as a Monk-Fighter multiclass. Multiclassing into Cleric doesn't make much sense.
Also, as a Cleric, you can change your prepared 1st level spells every time you do a long rest.
Yep, I’m aware that I can change up the spells I’m just talking about what I’ll normally have prepared.
And really a two level dip that enables higher spell slots earlier, damaging spells that use Wisdom and a 1/short rest max damage on lightning or thunder isn’t worth it?
Level 10 Monk 3 / Cleric 2 / Fighter 5
Monk: +2ac when needed (19ac) and Longbow +d4
Cleric: +2ac bonus action (21ac), another reaction, spells galore (including a lot of synergy and a fantastic aoe) and finally maxing damage for an attack.
Fighter: +5ac (shield), a familiar, action surge and extra attack, but most importantly Booming Blade combo with Polearm Master and War Caster.
What combination of Monk and Fighter would you favour by level 10?
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
Monk 3 Fighter 7 would be better than Monk 3 Cleric 2 Fighter 5
You get an ASI or feat at Fighter level 6, which is probably best used for +2 Dexterity to add 1 to your AC, 1 to your chance to hit, and 1 to your damage. You're also just one level away from yet another ASI or feat at Fighter level 8. And you're still just one level away from an ASI or feat at Monk level 4 as well.
At level 7 as an Eldritch Knight, you get 2nd level spells (not just 2nd level spell slots, but 2nd level spells), including Shadow Blade and some other nice spells from the Wizard spell list. You also get to make a weapon attack as a bonus action whenever you cast a cantrip. So now you can cast Booming Blade and then use your bonus action to make a weapon attack (and you can use this ability an unlimited number of times). That's better than taking 2 levels in Tempest Cleric.
So +1ac and +1 damage because I can’t take Shadow Blade as it’s not an abjuration or evocation spell... nor would I want to because it doesn’t work with Kensei weapons or Polearm Master.
The most valuable spell to take at Fighter 7 Is believe it or not Warding Wind and that is underwhelming. At Fighter 8 I can choose between Mirror Image, Misty Step and Blur (again the most valuable options) because at this level you can choose any spell.
Finally, I think you are overvaluing War Magic sure it adds an average of 8.5 damage but at the cost of using a Bonus Action and ki to move away - if I’m not going to be doing that why would I cast Booming Blade?
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
So +1ac and +1 damage because I can’t take Shadow Blade as it’s not an abjuration or evocation spell... nor would I want to because it doesn’t work with Kensei weapons or Polearm Master.
The most valuable spell to take at Fighter 7 Is believe it or not Warding Wind and that is underwhelming. At Fighter 8 I can choose between Mirror Image, Misty Step and Blur (again the most valuable options) because at this level you can choose any spell.
Finally, I think you are overvaluing War Magic sure it adds an average of 8.5 damage but at the cost of using a Bonus Action and ki to move away - if I’m not going to be doing that why would I cast Booming Blade?
True, you have to wait until level 8 in Fighter for Shadow Blade. War Magic only uses your Bonus Action, it doesn't use your Ki.
It sounds like your plan is to use your Ki points every turn until you run out of them to do Booming Blade and then bonus action disengage? You wouldn't use Booming Blade unless you were going to run away? Even though you plan on having 18+ AC?
Or your plan is to use a weapon that works with polearm master even though you have 18 dexterity and just 12 strength? None of the weapons that qualify for the Polearm master feat qualify as monk weapons, and none of them let you use your dexterity instead of your strength.
It's not clear what your plan is, you seem to be spreading yourself quite thin. Adding Cleric spellcasting to this would only make it worse. You really need to pick something to excel at and focus on that. A polearm master Monk is already a pretty difficult thing to do, adding Cleric spellcasting will only make it even harder.
There is quarter staff. And once you use it as a monk weapon, you can use it as a DEX weapon. I agree, 3 classes is too many, but there is a PAM option.
There is quarter staff. And once you use it as a monk weapon, you can use it as a DEX weapon. I agree, 3 classes is too many, but there is a PAM option.
Man, I am getting a lot of stuff wrong today. I forgot about the quarterstaff because it's not a reach weapon, but yes, it will work with polearm master and it can be a Monk weapon that can therefore use dexterity instead of strength.
So I guess he's doing a quarterstaff wielding Monk. Polearm master doesn't let you do a bonus action attack if you cast Booming Blade, but it does give you a bonus action attack if you do a normal attack with your Monk weapon - which you get anyways just by being a Monk. The Monk unarmed strike bonus action is better than the polearm master bonus action attack once you reach level 5.
So I guess he wants the polearm master feat just so that he can use his reaction to do a melee attack with a quarterstaff when an enemy moves next to him?
I’m actually using a Spear not a Quarterstaff but there isn’t much difference (Spears are my favourite weapon, so it’s just a personal preference). And yes Polearm Master is just for the reaction - the Bonus Action will only be relevant once I get a Magic Spear (but should carry on using the Martial Arts die, so never outmatched).
There are a few reasons I don’t plan on using Booming Blade every turn but the most plain one is that fights don’t happen in a vacuum - if our group is only fighting one enemy (other people in base contact) then the enemy isn’t going to move or if I’m protecting one of the squishy members of the party I wouldn’t let the monster go... unless I was sure that it would die.
Besides, I have other Bonus Actions that are not Ki, I have Shield of Faith and Second Wind. Additionally, an Action Surge with a weapon attack is sometimes worth it, which would enable a unarmed strike bonus action, or two (Ki). Yes, I’ll have a fair bit of AC so I can afford risking a hit or two (especially if they have multi-attack - because then risking one hit is better than just taking multiple).
So your DM is going to make a house rule that the polearm master feat applies to spears?
That’s not a house rule, just look at Polearm Master on D&D Beyond, it was changed in an Errata ages ago.
”Polearm Master (p. 168). A second sentence has been added to the first benefit: “This attack uses the same ability modifier as the primary attack.” Both instances of “or quarterstaff” have been changed to “quarterstaff, or spear.””
So your DM is going to make a house rule that the polearm master feat applies to spears?
That’s not a house rule, just look at Polearm Master on D&D Beyond, it was changed in an Errata ages ago.
”Polearm Master (p. 168). A second sentence has been added to the first benefit: “This attack uses the same ability modifier as the primary attack.” Both instances of “or quarterstaff” have been changed to “quarterstaff, or spear.””
For what little my two cents are worth I'm going to have to agree with those who say you're trying to do too much.
Cleric are Wisdom casters, and therefore cross well with Monk, Druid (although losing metal armour isn't great), and Ranger. But straight Cleric is actually very powerful, and if you want some Wizard spells go with Arcana Cleric. Two Wizard cantrips that count as cleric spells, and a selection of Wizard spells in your Domain list. I went with Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch from the Wizard list because the Arcana doesn't get martial weapons or heavy armour so favours a dexterity build, but the only finesse simple weapon is the dagger.
I actually put together one that used the Gruul Anarch background from Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. Having Destructive Wave at level 9 when Paladins have to wait to 17 is borderline broken.
Of course a single level in Monk would give unarmoured defence and martial arts, allowing said Cleric to use a spear or quarterstaff as a finesse weapon. But, practically speaking, with the "Powerful Spellcasting" feature at level 8 (where you will have maximized Wisdom) the quarterstaff/spear used two-handed will be doing D8+5 (maxed Dexterity) plus D8 from Booming Blade, while the Cleric with Shocking Grasp will be doing 2D8+5 damage, so only a little worse. Also, you'd have full access to Cleric spells including healing. The movement penalty of Booming Blade will rarely come up from my observation, unless you're a Rogue who can run away forcing them to move.
Eldritch Knight I'd just play straight. Use one of its extra ASIs to get the Magic Initiate: Wizard feat for two extra cantrips and another level 1 spell. Depending on whether I wanted heavy armour or could manage with light/medium would determine the stat choices I'd make. As a Wizard based caster Intelligence is its casting stat which means I'd be starting with either Strength or Dexterity 16, and Intelligence 16. I'd maximize my physical stat and then my magical one.
I have to admit. The idea of a heavily armoured fighter swinging around his greatsword then blasting enemies with Fire Bolt, maybe even Fire Ball, does appeal.
Just as an aside, any build that has Fighter in it should start with Fighter. Heavy armour proficiency and Constitution saves proficiency are hard to come by.
After finishing my session last night I levelled up to level 6, and since I changed to Variant Human recently (was Mark of the Passage, but for in-game reasons that changed). Therefore, my character is now as follows:
Kaladin Str 12 Dex 16 Con 15 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 6
Monk 1/ Tempest Cleric 1/ Eldritch Knight 4
Feats: War Caster and Polearm Master (with a Spear)
I can use Shocking Grasp to leave without triggering AoO or I can just Booming Blade and walk away when I have Shield of Faith up. However, for a more elegant solution I will be taking Monk 2 next to grab some Ki to allow me to disengage.
I’m surprised how much people seem to only look at the classes in isolation, have I not sufficiently explained the synergy between these classes? What are you guys looking for in an effective character build?
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
Since you like multiclassing so much, why take a 2nd level in Monk to get 2 bonus action disengages per short rest when you could multiclass Rogue and get unlimited bonus action disengages for just two levels of Rogue? And Sneak Attack, and Expertise, and Thieves' Can't, Thieves' Tools, and one skill all as bonuses on top of that!
Why stop at three classes when you could have four?
Since you like multiclassing so much, why take a 2nd level in Monk to get 2 bonus action disengages per short rest when you could multiclass Rogue and get unlimited bonus action disengages for just two levels of Rogue? And Sneak Attack, and Expertise, and Thieves' Can't, Thieves' Tools, and one skill all as bonuses on top of that!
Why stop at three classes when you could have four?
I mean apart from the sarcasm... Rogue's Sneak Attack requires a Finesse weapon - which even though Monk Weapons pretty much does that, it doesn't count for Sneak Attack.
A more detailed breakdown for plan and synergy:
Levels
Previously, I went Monk 1, Fighter 1-3, then Monk 2 but meeting with K: changed Monk 2 to Cleric 1
Lv20 Deft Strike: +1d6 (3/4) = 77.5 (r150/600 6 attacks) Reserve for a crit
MagicDestructive Wrath priority 1 Thunderwave, 2 Crit & 3 Summon Squall. Best with 3d8+ or to kill.
Cantrips:
Booming Blade – Lv5: 12/21, Lv11: 17.5/31, Lv17: 22/40. If triggered, best action Lv5-8, 11-12, & 17.
Command: Lv5+ say “Flee”/ Turn Undead (-Wrath) for Booming Blade AoO (no move trigger as target’s is compelled) and an enemy unable to act on their turn. Lv5 12, lv11 17.5 Lv17 22.
Chromatic Orb Spell Slot 1: 13.5 (Lv5), SS2: 18 (Lv8), SS3: 22.5 (Lv16). High resource, but when used with Wrath, strongest ranged option. Wrath: SS1: 24 (Lv5), SS2: 32 (Lv8), SS3: 40 (Lv16).
Thunderwave Spell Slot 1: 9 (Lv5), SS2: 13.5 (Lv8), SS3: 18 (Lv16). AOE with 2+ targets, is the most damage my spell slots & wrath can do. Wrath SS1: 16 (Lv5), SS2: 24 (Lv8), SS3: 32 (Lv16).
Options in Combat
Disengage Action – From lv6 onwards position myself so that I can also get AoO
Disengage/ Shove – only worth it with Polearm Master (lv6)
Shocking Grasp (Cantrip) – has advantage, works with Wrath & Surged with Booming Blade
Command (spell slot) +AoO either on engage or disengage. But happens on their round.
Thunderwave (spell slot) – always the best use of a spellslot if 2+ enemies. Disengage too
Fog Cloud (spell slot) – blinded so no AoOs. Guaranteed against non-blindsight etc.
Disengage Bonus Action:
Step of the Wind (1 Ki) – Not until lv7.
Misty Step (2 level Spell Slots) – Now not until lv15… Or if I remove Familiar.
Disengage Free/ Familiar Action:
‘Drop’ Fire-Crack Crystals – blinded so no AoOs, can also then, after lv6 can wait outside cloud for Polearm Master AoO. Nice thing about this, Can use Action & Bonus Action
Reactions – painful to choose because can only use one for either defense or offense
Shield (spell slot), if it’ll avoid an attack
Absorb Elements (spell slot), if a big elemental attack
Feather Fall (spell slot), if I can, always!
Deflect Missiles (lv10 Monk 3) can attack for 1ki
Slow Fall (lv12 Monk 4) reduce fall damage by 5x4-6 (monk level)
Booming Blade (Warcaster), nearly always but like all the AoO, not if too vulnerable.
Command, only very specific situation
Wrath of the Storm (3/LR), yes if I won’t be able to get an OA, can’t avoid the damage and/or won’t need the reaction for avoiding damage. If it’ll finish an enemy – do it.
Defense
Possible to have all of these active at once, but it takes a few turns.
Dodge Action – Don’t forget about this, at lv12 can take Dodge at a BA (1ki)
Shield of Faith (lv5) +2AC – very efficient spell slot use, but only if concentration is held.
Shield (lv5) +5AC – only use if it’ll stop an attacking hitting.
Agile Parry (lv10) +2AC always worth using this, especially since I’ll have 2 attacks.
I have discussed it with my DMs and next session, after having met with the storm-god who saved my character in their backstory (sailor), my (already multi-class) character is now going to multi-class into cleric to show a new found devotion.
Kaladin Str 12 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 6
Monk 1/ Tempest Cleric 1/ Eldritch Knight 3
Monk allows me to be an unarmored dexterous spear fighter, which I then improved the martial prowess of and went Gish with EK, using Booming Blade, my leveling plan had been to get Polearm Master and Warcaster, then use some Monk mobility to skirmish, allowing me to terrorize with Booming Blade...
However obviously Cleric has changed my plans, and whilst I will only be taking two level of Tempest Domain Cleric, that will slow the progression of that tactic significantly (but whilst allowing me another reaction, and maxing the damage 1/short rest).
Spells (because my DMs will not allow me to take any healing spells as part of this, they have allowed limit access to my Wizard spell list for my Cleric spells)
Because of Multiclass rules, I will have four 1st level spell-slots and two 2nd level spell-slots upon taking Tempest Cleric 2 (Level 6)
Cantrips
Wizard (Eldritch Knight):
Booming Blade
Prestidigitation
Cleric:
Thaumaturgy
Lightning Lure - from Wizard spell list
Shocking Grasp - from Wizard spell list
1st Level
Wizard Spells (Eldritch Knight):
Absorb Elements
Find Familiar
Shield
Cleric Spells:
Fog Cloud (Tempest Domain)
Thunderwave (Tempest Domain)
Bane
Create or Destroy Water
Shield of Faith
Chromatic Orb - From Wizard spell list (Only Lightning or Thunder)
Feather Fall - From Wizard spell list
2nd Level
Misty Step (Mark of the Passage Human)
I think you'll know which you'll prefer by the time you're able to get the ASI, but I'd suggest Warcaster.
Thanks Jesse, I totally agree and have been reflecting a lot on how to build my character and when to take each level... which is really complicated when doing a long campaign, that is slow to level, from level one, and you are doing a three class multiclass. :-)
My character cut through their Dragon Mark (Mark of Passage) last session (for plot relevant reasons), and so I have checked and agreed with my DM that I can change Race to Variant Human... and I'm picking up War Caster as part of that...
My stats are also going down from:
Then because I am also loosing Misty Step (one of my lower level activators for Booming Blade), I'm going to take Fighter 4 (Polearm Master) and Monk 2 (Ki points) before Cleric 2 (gets me second level spell slots thanks to Spell Casting Multiiclass). With my main way now to activate Booming Blade being Command: "Flee" which with Action Surge lets me do (at level 5) 8d8+6 for a level 1 spell slot and Action Surge. :-)
Do you have to take the cleric level? I'd just hesitate since it really does throw off your so many level-based gains from other classes (three classes is a lot, and it will guarantee you won't get your top power in any class, should the campaign last that long). What about Magic initiate: cleric as a feat, still gives you some in-game cleric stuff, but without the commitment of a whole level or 2 for it.
Or just RP as someone who is devoutly religious. There's lots and lots of religious people, only a handful of them (in most campaign worlds) have class levels in cleric. Not everything has to be mechanical.
Also, I don't think command/booming blade would work. Booming blade triggers when a creature willingly moves, and being commanded is not willing movement.
Short answer, no I don’t have to take the Cleric level but RP wise it makes a lot of sense beyond simply, Oh I have faith now... but also Mechanics wise it is really strong, especially since the DM let me pick a couple of thematic Wizard spells as compensation for no healing. The real benefit though is from Destructive Wrath, maxing the damage dice of a Lightning or Thunder attack 1/short rest, is very useful for a two level dip that also gives me great spell options and another to +2ac (shield of faith).
And from a little research... you are right, I was operating under the opinion of someone else about using your own movement. It would seem I could still take an Booming Blade opportunity attack it’s secondary affect just wouldn’t trigger. Hmm I am going to have to rethink that.
Edit: with Polearm Master also I could Booming Blade, Monk BA out and then get an AoO when they reengage or Action Surge with the Shove action.
Edit 2: Or my other two Nova possibilities are:
1. Shocking Grasp, Action Surge, Booming Blade, move away and then hopefully another Booming Blade when they reengage (lv6 51 damage).
2. Same but with Monk disengage and Chromatic Orb (Lightning/Thunder) (lv7 55.5 damage or lv8 75 damage).
Edit 3: The above is from going Fighter 4 (Polearm Master), then Monk 2 (Ki for Disengage) and then Cleric 2 (only then getting my second level spell slots and wrath for max dice damage on lightning/thunder 1/ short rest).
Edit 4: Here is my average damage breakdown per level for my Multiclass' Nova Attack, I'd be interested to know how this compares to other characters:
Grasp: Shocking Grasp, Booming Blade (Action Surge) & BA attack (Lv14+), efficient, 1/10 crit +Wrath (53/ 71/ 79.5/ 96.5). Lv5: 30, Lv11 44.5, Lv14: 53, Lv17: 66.5. Reengage, additional AoO damage Lv6 +21, Lv11 +31, Lv17 +40, which if they reengaged and I got the 1/10, lv6 average is 74.
Orb: Booming Blade, Move & Chromatic Orb (Action Surge & Wrath). High resource & target must move. Lv5: 45, Lv8: 54 | Lv11: 63, Lv16: 71, Lv17 80. If the target then reengages there is additional AoO damage: Lv6 +21, Lv11 +31, Lv17 +40. So if the stars aline, at Lv6, average damage of 66.
Your character is betting off just staying as a Monk-Fighter multiclass. Multiclassing into Cleric doesn't make much sense.
Also, as a Cleric, you can change your prepared 1st level spells every time you do a long rest.
Yep, I’m aware that I can change up the spells I’m just talking about what I’ll normally have prepared.
And really a two level dip that enables higher spell slots earlier, damaging spells that use Wisdom and a 1/short rest max damage on lightning or thunder isn’t worth it?
Level 10 Monk 3 / Cleric 2 / Fighter 5
Monk: +2ac when needed (19ac) and Longbow +d4
Cleric: +2ac bonus action (21ac), another reaction, spells galore (including a lot of synergy and a fantastic aoe) and finally maxing damage for an attack.
Fighter: +5ac (shield), a familiar, action surge and extra attack, but most importantly Booming Blade combo with Polearm Master and War Caster.
What combination of Monk and Fighter would you favour by level 10?
Monk 3 Fighter 7 would be better than Monk 3 Cleric 2 Fighter 5
You get an ASI or feat at Fighter level 6, which is probably best used for +2 Dexterity to add 1 to your AC, 1 to your chance to hit, and 1 to your damage. You're also just one level away from yet another ASI or feat at Fighter level 8. And you're still just one level away from an ASI or feat at Monk level 4 as well.
At level 7 as an Eldritch Knight, you get 2nd level spells (not just 2nd level spell slots, but 2nd level spells), including Shadow Blade and some other nice spells from the Wizard spell list. You also get to make a weapon attack as a bonus action whenever you cast a cantrip. So now you can cast Booming Blade and then use your bonus action to make a weapon attack (and you can use this ability an unlimited number of times). That's better than taking 2 levels in Tempest Cleric.
So +1ac and +1 damage because I can’t take Shadow Blade as it’s not an abjuration or evocation spell... nor would I want to because it doesn’t work with Kensei weapons or Polearm Master.
The most valuable spell to take at Fighter 7 Is believe it or not Warding Wind and that is underwhelming. At Fighter 8 I can choose between Mirror Image, Misty Step and Blur (again the most valuable options) because at this level you can choose any spell.
Finally, I think you are overvaluing War Magic sure it adds an average of 8.5 damage but at the cost of using a Bonus Action and ki to move away - if I’m not going to be doing that why would I cast Booming Blade?
True, you have to wait until level 8 in Fighter for Shadow Blade. War Magic only uses your Bonus Action, it doesn't use your Ki.
It sounds like your plan is to use your Ki points every turn until you run out of them to do Booming Blade and then bonus action disengage? You wouldn't use Booming Blade unless you were going to run away? Even though you plan on having 18+ AC?
Or your plan is to use a weapon that works with polearm master even though you have 18 dexterity and just 12 strength? None of the weapons that qualify for the Polearm master feat qualify as monk weapons, and none of them let you use your dexterity instead of your strength.
It's not clear what your plan is, you seem to be spreading yourself quite thin. Adding Cleric spellcasting to this would only make it worse. You really need to pick something to excel at and focus on that. A polearm master Monk is already a pretty difficult thing to do, adding Cleric spellcasting will only make it even harder.
There is quarter staff. And once you use it as a monk weapon, you can use it as a DEX weapon.
I agree, 3 classes is too many, but there is a PAM option.
Man, I am getting a lot of stuff wrong today. I forgot about the quarterstaff because it's not a reach weapon, but yes, it will work with polearm master and it can be a Monk weapon that can therefore use dexterity instead of strength.
So I guess he's doing a quarterstaff wielding Monk. Polearm master doesn't let you do a bonus action attack if you cast Booming Blade, but it does give you a bonus action attack if you do a normal attack with your Monk weapon - which you get anyways just by being a Monk. The Monk unarmed strike bonus action is better than the polearm master bonus action attack once you reach level 5.
So I guess he wants the polearm master feat just so that he can use his reaction to do a melee attack with a quarterstaff when an enemy moves next to him?
I’m actually using a Spear not a Quarterstaff but there isn’t much difference (Spears are my favourite weapon, so it’s just a personal preference). And yes Polearm Master is just for the reaction - the Bonus Action will only be relevant once I get a Magic Spear (but should carry on using the Martial Arts die, so never outmatched).
There are a few reasons I don’t plan on using Booming Blade every turn but the most plain one is that fights don’t happen in a vacuum - if our group is only fighting one enemy (other people in base contact) then the enemy isn’t going to move or if I’m protecting one of the squishy members of the party I wouldn’t let the monster go... unless I was sure that it would die.
Besides, I have other Bonus Actions that are not Ki, I have Shield of Faith and Second Wind. Additionally, an Action Surge with a weapon attack is sometimes worth it, which would enable a unarmed strike bonus action, or two (Ki). Yes, I’ll have a fair bit of AC so I can afford risking a hit or two (especially if they have multi-attack - because then risking one hit is better than just taking multiple).
So your DM is going to make a house rule that the polearm master feat applies to spears?
That’s not a house rule, just look at Polearm Master on D&D Beyond, it was changed in an Errata ages ago.
”Polearm Master (p. 168). A second sentence has been added to the first benefit: “This attack uses the same ability modifier as the primary attack.”
Both instances of “or quarterstaff” have been changed to “quarterstaff, or spear.””
https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf
Once again I'm wrong, although this time it's because I was going off the PHB without reading the Errata.
For what little my two cents are worth I'm going to have to agree with those who say you're trying to do too much.
Cleric are Wisdom casters, and therefore cross well with Monk, Druid (although losing metal armour isn't great), and Ranger. But straight Cleric is actually very powerful, and if you want some Wizard spells go with Arcana Cleric. Two Wizard cantrips that count as cleric spells, and a selection of Wizard spells in your Domain list. I went with Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch from the Wizard list because the Arcana doesn't get martial weapons or heavy armour so favours a dexterity build, but the only finesse simple weapon is the dagger.
I actually put together one that used the Gruul Anarch background from Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. Having Destructive Wave at level 9 when Paladins have to wait to 17 is borderline broken.
Of course a single level in Monk would give unarmoured defence and martial arts, allowing said Cleric to use a spear or quarterstaff as a finesse weapon. But, practically speaking, with the "Powerful Spellcasting" feature at level 8 (where you will have maximized Wisdom) the quarterstaff/spear used two-handed will be doing D8+5 (maxed Dexterity) plus D8 from Booming Blade, while the Cleric with Shocking Grasp will be doing 2D8+5 damage, so only a little worse. Also, you'd have full access to Cleric spells including healing. The movement penalty of Booming Blade will rarely come up from my observation, unless you're a Rogue who can run away forcing them to move.
Eldritch Knight I'd just play straight. Use one of its extra ASIs to get the Magic Initiate: Wizard feat for two extra cantrips and another level 1 spell. Depending on whether I wanted heavy armour or could manage with light/medium would determine the stat choices I'd make. As a Wizard based caster Intelligence is its casting stat which means I'd be starting with either Strength or Dexterity 16, and Intelligence 16. I'd maximize my physical stat and then my magical one.
I have to admit. The idea of a heavily armoured fighter swinging around his greatsword then blasting enemies with Fire Bolt, maybe even Fire Ball, does appeal.
Just as an aside, any build that has Fighter in it should start with Fighter. Heavy armour proficiency and Constitution saves proficiency are hard to come by.
After finishing my session last night I levelled up to level 6, and since I changed to Variant Human recently (was Mark of the Passage, but for in-game reasons that changed). Therefore, my character is now as follows:
Kaladin Str 12 Dex 16 Con 15 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 6
Monk 1/ Tempest Cleric 1/ Eldritch Knight 4
Feats: War Caster and Polearm Master (with a Spear)
I can use Shocking Grasp to leave without triggering AoO or I can just Booming Blade and walk away when I have Shield of Faith up. However, for a more elegant solution I will be taking Monk 2 next to grab some Ki to allow me to disengage.
I’m surprised how much people seem to only look at the classes in isolation, have I not sufficiently explained the synergy between these classes? What are you guys looking for in an effective character build?
Since you like multiclassing so much, why take a 2nd level in Monk to get 2 bonus action disengages per short rest when you could multiclass Rogue and get unlimited bonus action disengages for just two levels of Rogue? And Sneak Attack, and Expertise, and Thieves' Can't, Thieves' Tools, and one skill all as bonuses on top of that!
Why stop at three classes when you could have four?
I mean apart from the sarcasm... Rogue's Sneak Attack requires a Finesse weapon - which even though Monk Weapons pretty much does that, it doesn't count for Sneak Attack.
A more detailed breakdown for plan and synergy:
Levels
Previously, I went Monk 1, Fighter 1-3, then Monk 2 but meeting with K: changed Monk 2 to Cleric 1
Lv5: Monk 1/ Cleric 1 / Fighter 3 – Lightning and Thunder damage spells.
Lv6: Monk 1/ Cleric 1/ Fighter 4 – Polearm Master and Protection from Good and Evil.
Lv7: Monk 2/ Cleric 1/ Fighter 4 – 2ki and 40ft movement.
Lv8: Monk 2/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 4 – Wrath of the Storm and two 2 level spells slots.
Lv9: Monk 2/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 5 – Extra Attack, for mundane damage boost.
Lv10: Monk 3/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 5 – Kensei subclass (+2 AC option)
Lv11: Monk 3/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 6 – +2 Dexterity & third 2 level spell slot.
Lv12: Monk 4/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 6 – +2 Wisdom (+ 1 Cleric spell)
Lv13: Monk 5/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 6 – Stunning Strike and Martial Arts d6
Lv14: Monk 5/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 7 – War Magic, good. Can take Warding Wind Spell.
Lv15: Monk 5/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 8 – Resilient (Constitution). Getting the Mirror Image spell
Lv16: Monk 5/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 9 – Indomitable & two 3 level spell slots
Lv17: Monk 5/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 10 – Eldritch Strike, good with Command.
Lv18: Monk 5/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 11 – Extra Attack: 3 attack!
Lv19: Monk 5/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 12 – +2 Dexterity and a third 3 level spell slot
Lv20: Monk 6/ Cleric 2/ Fighter 12 – +5ft movement, magical fists and mini-smite (1d6)
Magic
Cantrips
Wizard (Eldritch Knight):
Booming Blade & Prestidigitation – Fighter 3
Gust – Fighter 10
Cleric (Tempest Domain):
Thaumaturgy, Lightning Lure (wizard list) & Shocking Grasp (wizard list) – Cleric 1
1 Level Spells
Wizard Spells (Eldritch Knight):
Absorb Elements, Find Familiar & Shield – Fighter 3 (may swap Familiar for Misty Step)
Protection from Evil and Good – Fighter 4
Cleric Spells (Tempest Domain):
Fog Cloud & Thunderwave (Domain Spells)
Command, Shield of Faith, Chromatic Orb (wizard list) & Feather Fall (wizard list) – Cleric 1
Create or Destroy Water – Cleric 2
Bane – Wisdom 18 (Character level 12)
2 Level Spells
Wizard Spells (Eldritch Knight):
Warding Wind – Fighter 7
Misty Step – Fighter 8 - this was going to be Mirror Image, but I lost Misty Step when I lost my Mark of Passage
Gust of Wind – Fighter 10
Shatter – Fighter 11
Strategies
Damage average breakdown per level, resource and highest damage
Melee Weapon (baseline) Normal | Ki | Action Surge – Ranged weapon damage close after lv13
Lv5 1d8+3 (Spear) & 1d4+3 (Punch BA) = 13 | +1d8+3 (+7.5) = 20.5 (3 attacks). 0.5 of Booming Blade
Lv7 Ki: +1d4+3 (+5.5) = 26 (4 attacks)
Lv9 Extra Attack: 2d8+6 & 1d4+3 = 20.5 | +2d8+6 (+15) = 41 (6 attacks)
Lv10 Agile Parry: -1d8 +1d4 (so -2) 18.5 but +2AC = 39 (6 attacks)
Lv11 +2 Dexterity: 1d8+4 & 2d4+8 = 21.5 | +1d4+4 (+6.5) | +2d8+8 (+17) = 45 (6 attacks)
Lv13 Martial Arts: 1d8+4 & 2d6+8 = 23.5 | +1d6+4 (+7.5) = 48 (6 attacks). Better than Booming Blade
Lv18 Extra Attack: 2d8+8 & 2d6+8 = 32 | +1d6+4 (+7.5) |+3d8+12 (+25.5) = 65 (8 attacks)
Lv19 +2 Dexterity: 36 | +8.5 | +28.5 = 73 (8 attacks)
Lv20 Deft Strike: +1d6 (3.5) = 76.5 (8 attacks). Like a Smite, reserve Deft Strike for a critical.
Ranged Weapon (baseline) Normal | Action Surge (Range) – Huge jump at lv13 (Monk 5), use this! Lv5 1d8+3 (Spear Action & BA) = 7.5 (r20, 1 attack) | 2d4+6 (Sling) = 11 (r30, 2 attacks)
Lv9 Extra Attack: 2d4+6 (Sling) = 11 | +2d4+6 (Sling) (+11) = 22 (r30, 4 attacks)
Lv10 Kensei Weapons & Shot: 2d8+6 (Longbow) +2d4 = 20 | 2d8+6 +2d4 (+20) = 40 (r150 4 attacks)
Lv11 +2 Dexterity: 2d8+8 +2d4 = 22 | 2d8+8 +2d4 (+22) = 44 (r150 4 attacks)
Lv18 Extra Attack: 3d8+12 +3d4 = 33 | 3d8+12 +3d4 = (+33) = 66 (r150 6 attacks). Overtaking melee
Lv19 +2 Dexterity: 36 | +36 = 74 (r150/600 6 attacks)
Lv20 Deft Strike: +1d6 (3/4) = 77.5 (r150/600 6 attacks) Reserve for a crit
Magic Destructive Wrath priority 1 Thunderwave, 2 Crit & 3 Summon Squall. Best with 3d8+ or to kill.
Cantrips:
Booming Blade – Lv5: 12/21, Lv11: 17.5/31, Lv17: 22/40. If triggered, best action Lv5-8, 11-12, & 17.
Command: Lv5+ say “Flee”/ Turn Undead (-Wrath) for Booming Blade AoO (no move trigger as target’s is compelled) and an enemy unable to act on their turn. Lv5 12, lv11 17.5 Lv17 22.
Grasp: Shocking Grasp, Booming Blade (Action Surge) & BA attack (Lv14+), efficient, 1/10 crit +Wrath (53/ 71/ 79.5/ 96.5). Lv5: 30, Lv11 44.5, Lv14: 53, Lv17: 66.5. (Reengage +21/31/40)
Squall: Booming Blade, Move & Summon Squall (Action Surge & Wrath), best Nova. High resource & must move. Lv5: 45, Lv8: 54 | Lv11: 63, Lv16: 71, Lv17 80. (Reengage +21/31/40)
Lightning Lure Lv5: 9 Lv11: 13.5 Lv17: 18. The pull is useful to help an ally or cause an enemy to fall.
Shocking Grasp Lv5: 9 Lv11: 13.5 Lv17: 18. Disengage, Touch & Advantage. Wrath on crit: 32/40/48
Spells:
Chromatic Orb Spell Slot 1: 13.5 (Lv5), SS2: 18 (Lv8), SS3: 22.5 (Lv16). High resource, but when used with Wrath, strongest ranged option. Wrath: SS1: 24 (Lv5), SS2: 32 (Lv8), SS3: 40 (Lv16).
Thunderwave Spell Slot 1: 9 (Lv5), SS2: 13.5 (Lv8), SS3: 18 (Lv16). AOE with 2+ targets, is the most damage my spell slots & wrath can do. Wrath SS1: 16 (Lv5), SS2: 24 (Lv8), SS3: 32 (Lv16).
Options in Combat
Disengage Action – From lv6 onwards position myself so that I can also get AoO
Disengage Bonus Action:
Disengage Free/ Familiar Action:
Reactions – painful to choose because can only use one for either defense or offense
Defense
Possible to have all of these active at once, but it takes a few turns.
Resources by level
Cleric 1 5. Spell slots 3-1. Short: 1/Action Surge 1/Second Wind. Long: 3/Wrath Storm.
Monk 2 7. 2ki.
Cleric 2 8. Spell slots 4-1 and 2-2. Channel Divinity (Destructive Wrath) 1/ Short Rest.
Monk 3 10. 3ki. Arrows as a resource become relevant.
Fighter 6 11. Spell slots 3-2.
Monk 4 12. 4ki. Wrath of the Storm 4/ Long Rest.
Monk 5 13. 5ki.
Fighter 9 16. Spell slots 2-3. Indomitable 1/Long Rest (reroll saving throw).
Fighter 12 19. Spell Slots 3-3.
Monk 6 20. 6ki. Deft Strike 1/Per Turn.