Meaning that it is a poorly understood concept going back nearly 50 years because the early authors had no knowledge or understanding of polytheistic practices or even the difference between Apollonian and Dyonesian religions. Like so many other things, those baseline assumptions are normative for settings like Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance but Dark Sun and, eventually, Eberron show us that games don’t have to be this and that your baseline assumption needs to be checked with the rest of the baggage because the setting is what defines the behavior. Dark Sun isn’t exactly new and Eberron itself has some years on it now too. This is, once again, specifically identified in the DMG as a point of consideration. My entire point is that the baseline norm of the default FR setting is filled with nonsense that simply isn’t being thrown out “because it’s always been like this,” the worst excuse for doing anything. If anything, people need to take a moment to actually consider what polytheistic religions actually look like and do and then consider what faith in their game looks like. It isn’t unreasonable for a cleric to devote their worship to a single god. We see aspects of that in Greco-Roman, Khemetic, and even Germanic traditions, even if it is rare. We also know that it very much depends on a bunch of other factors in our world so the same should be considered for a game world.
Can you elaborate on that nonsense? What specifically do you mean?
> Can you elaborate on that nonsense? What specifically do you mean?
Religion in D&D is one of the weakest, worst developed concepts despite being central to at least two character classes (Cleric & Paladin) and potentially extremely significant to a third (Druid). This is because Gary Gygax was a game designer, not a theologian, and his understanding and inclusion of polytheism in the game was little more than a watered-down version of simplistic representations of Greco-Roman myth. Religion in D&D has largely been an unexplored subject even when titles like “Deities & Demigods” were produced. Those books were more about providing powers and cosmic order as it pertains to godly beings rather than discussing what religion looks like in any of their fantasy settings. They were essentially stat blocks over substance. This mode was fine when D&D was a predominantly “hack & slash” game in its earliest iterations because the depth wasn’t required. As D&D became a game more about storytelling, this limited model must also be expanded on because of the richness it brings to a story, a story that is fundamentally about human experiences; about our experiences.
The first, and most important, failing is the complete lack of understanding how polytheistic religions work. To be direct about it, D&D treats gods the way a children’s book on mythology does by promoting the “god of X” model of thinking that was erroneously applied to myths. The idea that a divine being of phenomenal cosmic power only has that power within a tiny and specific area of influence is a complete failure to understand that polytheism doesn’t work that way. Yes, gods typically have elements where they are most interested and attentive, just as people do, but their powers aren’t limited to that. Thor is The Thunderer, not the God of Thunder. The distinction is important because we have a large body of evidence that shows Nordic peoples prayed to him for many things beyond the limited view presented in simplistic recounting of myths.
The second major failing of religion in D&D is the inherent idea that Clerics and Paladins must be inherently exclusive, or nearly exclusive, in their devotion to a singular entity to be granted their power. Such exclusivity is extraordinarily rare in polytheism and is typically found in traditions we label as Apollonian. Even within Apollonian temple building religions, clerical exclusivity is uncommon due to the nature of polytheism itself. A preference of devotion would does trend towards the common but rarely reaches exclusivity. Dionysian religions tend to reject such exclusivity altogether but does also tend towards devotional preferences. The primary factor in all of this is human experience, which I will touch on shortly.
The third major failing of religion in D&D is the fact that it is left almost completely undefined. Even using the existing model, we know next to nothing about the beliefs of dedicated and exclusive religions. Worship of the Faerûnian pantheon is itself not one religion (which ultimately negates the validity of calling it a pantheon at all) but a collection of religions with a complete lack of theology or mythology. The gods of Faerûn exist and demonstrate their power regularly but they completely lack a meaningful creed or interaction with the mythologies of the peoples of Faerûn. They exist almost wholly outside of the experiential existence of those people. Essentially, they are divine vending machines that occasionally break and cause a mess of trouble.
While some are quick to dismiss the realities of human religions and myths as somehow not applicable to D&D, doing so utterly and completely misses the point of the game itself. D&D is a storytelling game. Stories have meaning and impact when they are representative of human experience because the game is about us. It is about how the collaborative storytelling activity makes us feel and what it makes us fee. Religion and myth are part of that storytelling element of human existence. When we do not embrace the depth and importance of this in our lives and properly reflect it in the stories we tell in game, we are doing ourselves a disservice because we are gutting and hollowing out what is a critical element of human existence. By considering what real world religions and myths do, and how they do it, we can borrow those elements to increase the tools in our storytelling toolbox and enrich our games. The more enriching the game is, the greater the story is for all involved.
Ad1. Where does it say that a "god of..." has only power over that specific thing? In FR gods are powerful beings and they have specific domains and portfolios but it is so because the overgod organized them as such. They can still cast spells and shape reality as they please but they don't do that because, again, they have an overdeity who supervises them. Not a head of pantheon who is essentially more powerful but playing by the same rules but a being virtually beyond their reach, who can create new deities as he wishes or demote them if they piss him off.
Ad2. Nowhere does it say that cleric and paladin have to worship exclusively one god. They get powers and spells from their patron deity, sure, but in the pantheons there are several connections where it does make sense that they can pay respect to others. An Avariel Cleric of Aerdrie Faenya will be getting spells from the Winged Goddess while also paying customary respect to the father of elven pantheon Corellon Larethian.
And again, you can't really say that it's not how polytheistis religion works because typically our religions don't offer champions with real world magical powers. Now imagine that avatars of 20 different magical beings appear before mankind and say basically "you can choose one of us and you will get magical powers through your prayers". See how the philosophy of polytheism changes overnight.
Ad3. How can you not call it a pantheon? It's absolutely one religion. Most of faerunians worship many gods depending on the situation. They will offer a prayer to Chauntea right before harvest, bless Amaunator if the sun goes up after a long period of flood, offer a feared respect to Auril if winter is too harsh...
And yes, we are quick to dismiss realities of human religions and myths because of the differences and because yes, D&D is a storytelling game. Part of the storytelling is asking yourself "what if". As in, how would religion look like if we knew 100% that gods exist, what they want from us and that there is a way we could get tangible magical benefits through them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Where did that come from?
Can you elaborate on that nonsense? What specifically do you mean?
Religion in D&D is one of the weakest, worst developed concepts despite being central to at least two character classes (Cleric & Paladin) and potentially extremely significant to a third (Druid). This is because Gary Gygax was a game designer, not a theologian, and his understanding and inclusion of polytheism in the game was little more than a watered-down version of simplistic representations of Greco-Roman myth. Religion in D&D has largely been an unexplored subject even when titles like “Deities & Demigods” were produced. Those books were more about providing powers and cosmic order as it pertains to godly beings rather than discussing what religion looks like in any of their fantasy settings. They were essentially stat blocks over substance. This mode was fine when D&D was a predominantly “hack & slash” game in its earliest iterations because the depth wasn’t required. As D&D became a game more about storytelling, this limited model must also be expanded on because of the richness it brings to a story, a story that is fundamentally about human experiences; about our experiences.
The first, and most important, failing is the complete lack of understanding how polytheistic religions work. To be direct about it, D&D treats gods the way a children’s book on mythology does by promoting the “god of X” model of thinking that was erroneously applied to myths. The idea that a divine being of phenomenal cosmic power only has that power within a tiny and specific area of influence is a complete failure to understand that polytheism doesn’t work that way. Yes, gods typically have elements where they are most interested and attentive, just as people do, but their powers aren’t limited to that. Thor is The Thunderer, not the God of Thunder. The distinction is important because we have a large body of evidence that shows Nordic peoples prayed to him for many things beyond the limited view presented in simplistic recounting of myths.
The second major failing of religion in D&D is the inherent idea that Clerics and Paladins must be inherently exclusive, or nearly exclusive, in their devotion to a singular entity to be granted their power. Such exclusivity is extraordinarily rare in polytheism and is typically found in traditions we label as Apollonian. Even within Apollonian temple building religions, clerical exclusivity is uncommon due to the nature of polytheism itself. A preference of devotion would does trend towards the common but rarely reaches exclusivity. Dionysian religions tend to reject such exclusivity altogether but does also tend towards devotional preferences. The primary factor in all of this is human experience, which I will touch on shortly.
The third major failing of religion in D&D is the fact that it is left almost completely undefined. Even using the existing model, we know next to nothing about the beliefs of dedicated and exclusive religions. Worship of the Faerûnian pantheon is itself not one religion (which ultimately negates the validity of calling it a pantheon at all) but a collection of religions with a complete lack of theology or mythology. The gods of Faerûn exist and demonstrate their power regularly but they completely lack a meaningful creed or interaction with the mythologies of the peoples of Faerûn. They exist almost wholly outside of the experiential existence of those people. Essentially, they are divine vending machines that occasionally break and cause a mess of trouble.
While some are quick to dismiss the realities of human religions and myths as somehow not applicable to D&D, doing so utterly and completely misses the point of the game itself. D&D is a storytelling game. Stories have meaning and impact when they are representative of human experience because the game is about us. It is about how the collaborative storytelling activity makes us feel and what it makes us fee. Religion and myth are part of that storytelling element of human existence. When we do not embrace the depth and importance of this in our lives and properly reflect it in the stories we tell in game, we are doing ourselves a disservice because we are gutting and hollowing out what is a critical element of human existence. By considering what real world religions and myths do, and how they do it, we can borrow those elements to increase the tools in our storytelling toolbox and enrich our games. The more enriching the game is, the greater the story is for all involved.
Ad1. Where does it say that a "god of..." has only power over that specific thing? In FR gods are powerful beings and they have specific domains and portfolios but it is so because the overgod organized them as such. They can still cast spells and shape reality as they please but they don't do that because, again, they have an overdeity who supervises them. Not a head of pantheon who is essentially more powerful but playing by the same rules but a being virtually beyond their reach, who can create new deities as he wishes or demote them if they piss him off.
Ad2. Nowhere does it say that cleric and paladin have to worship exclusively one god. They get powers and spells from their patron deity, sure, but in the pantheons there are several connections where it does make sense that they can pay respect to others. An Avariel Cleric of Aerdrie Faenya will be getting spells from the Winged Goddess while also paying customary respect to the father of elven pantheon Corellon Larethian.
And again, you can't really say that it's not how polytheistis religion works because typically our religions don't offer champions with real world magical powers. Now imagine that avatars of 20 different magical beings appear before mankind and say basically "you can choose one of us and you will get magical powers through your prayers". See how the philosophy of polytheism changes overnight.
Ad3. How can you not call it a pantheon? It's absolutely one religion. Most of faerunians worship many gods depending on the situation. They will offer a prayer to Chauntea right before harvest, bless Amaunator if the sun goes up after a long period of flood, offer a feared respect to Auril if winter is too harsh...
And yes, we are quick to dismiss realities of human religions and myths because of the differences and because yes, D&D is a storytelling game. Part of the storytelling is asking yourself "what if". As in, how would religion look like if we knew 100% that gods exist, what they want from us and that there is a way we could get tangible magical benefits through them.