Hey there, i often find the concept worshiping a deity nice but rather overused.
By D&D canon can a cleric gain cleric like powers from a universal force, rather than say... a god? For example by worshiping magic,as a sacred thing believeing it to be the force of all creation and life, is it possible for me to become a cleric of life?
In ravnica most clerics don't really worship a deity, so it's absolutely possible depending on the setting. I think it's a thing you should ask your DM. The question is wether a "universal force" isn't just like a god, but if it works it works right? Some non god worshipping could go to "the gosts of the ancients" or "the stars" or something like that.
I have a whole homebrew setting that I'm working on where deities literally don't exist.
I recall a discussion by some of the Dnd designers that i saw a while ago about the love of Philosophy clerics. They don't get their power from any deity but from their beliefs about reality.
Ultimately I think it comes down to what the DM is willing to allow for their world, and what you want to RP. Weather that be worshiping a god, dog, demigod, the sun, or the power of friendship, whatever seems fun to you is probably enough justification for the average game of DND.
Hey there, i often find the concept worshiping a deity nice but rather overused.
By D&D canon can a cleric gain cleric like powers from a universal force, rather than say... a god? For example by worshiping magic,as a sacred thing believeing it to be the force of all creation and life, is it possible for me to become a cleric of life?
RAW, a cleric does not need to worship a deity. Crazy, I know, but thems tha rules.
"a cleric might instead serve a cosmic force, such as life or death, or a philosophy or concept, such as love, peace, or one of the nine alignments." - Dungeon Master's Guide
And from Xanther's:
Some clerics, especially in a world like Eberron, serve a whole pantheon, rather than a single deity. In certain campaigns, a cleric might instead serve a cosmic force, such as life or death, or a philosophy or concept, such as love, peace, or one of the nine alignments. Chapter 1 of the Dungeon Master's Guide explores options like these, in the section "Gods of Your World."
Lastly, much like we argue over metal and what armor druids are capable of wearing, there is nothing in the "Class Features" of a cleric states that one must have a deity. It is flavor, not a requirement.
Edit: I will also add that in Adventures League, they actually have a "House rule" that specifically requires a cleric to have a deity. If it was already a requirement, then there would be no need of such a rule. It would be redundant.
"Deities. Your character can choose any deity listed in Deities of the Forgotten Realms and Nonhuman Deities tables in the Player’s Handbook or any of those mentioned in the resources listed in Step 1, above. Clerics must worship a single, specific deity but aren’t limited to the Domains recommended for their deity. Other characters are not required to have a deity."
So yeah, purely as RAW, no, but at the same time who cares. If you want to play an officially recognized and sanctioned game of D&D, which makes up the vast minority of all games then you'd be shoehorned into this. Since 99% of games are not officially sanctioned and the most globally recognized game of D&D THRIVES on homebrew via Critical Role? Go nuts.
A lot of the backlash you might get from people who have been in the hobby for a long time or from purists is in the official setting, Forgotten Realms, deities aren't a concept. They are real beings who have known exploits and can walk amongst the people, and have. Their worship gives them power and they need believers to be able to keep up their standing as Gods or be forced into lower statuses and potentially lose their portfolio of powers. So for a person in that universe to be a Cleric, they pray to a God for that power who chooses to impart it or not. For someone to not believe in the Gods in Forgotten Realms, there is a 0% chance canonically they are going to be a Cleric.
Again, however, go nuts. I'd love the idea of a player character exploring the idea of the Cleric class without a deity and how they carry themselves. As long as the roleplay is there and the player isn't using the Cleric class as a vehicle for being ultra random then have at it. I say that because even if you have no deity, I'd(personally, again your tables might be different) expect a Cleric to hold true to certain tenants/beliefs and if they went too far outside of that on a regular basis there would be roleplay based punishments for that character type. Similiar to a Paladin not holding true to their bonds/beliefs of their subclass.
This conversation could go on forever in a lot of different directions. In the end, again, one final time? Go nuts.
Hey Layomayo, I agree with what several others have said about talking to your DM to work out some of the specifics for the setting they are using. But absolutely your cleric can worship a concept or idea! On our livestream show Silver and Steel we just encountered a collection of clerics who worship community, healing and service instead of a specific God. That's pretty clearly a good place for Life clerics IMHO.
That sounds a little more like a warlock, but if you want to play something like that, Something like an oath breaker paladin, maybe ask your DM first, and if your DM says yes, maybe Work on a backstory that shows how this came to be. But for something like magic, like a magic domain, there already is the arcana domain for cleric. That may be what you are looking for
That sounds a little more like a warlock, but if you want to play something like that, Something like an oath breaker paladin, maybe ask your DM first, and if your DM says yes, maybe Work on a backstory that shows how this came to be. But for something like magic, like a magic domain, there already is the arcana domain for cleric. That may be what you are looking for
How does that sound like a warlock or an oathbreaker? You're not making a pact with anything, you're worshipping an entity, you're not swearing an oath to anything either, so you can't break it.
I would argue that the concept of life can be a "deity". Maybe it's a non-immanent force that people worship, it might be sentient, or might be driven by instinct and have no personification whatsoever like a traditional god does. It creates life and those that follow it are granted some modiucm of its power, but it has no alignment, personality or goal other than to create life.
I’ve often found it funny that the description in the PHB seems to imply that D&D deities are just as likely to dump powers on a random person, go “do things in my name,” and run off. So a Cleric could find him/herself a cosmic plaything. Such a situation can reasonably make the Cleric not a worshipper of any god, but still an instrument of their will.
Hey there, i often find the concept worshiping a deity nice but rather overused.
By D&D canon can a cleric gain cleric like powers from a universal force, rather than say... a god? For example by worshiping magic,as a sacred thing believeing it to be the force of all creation and life, is it possible for me to become a cleric of life?
aren't they called druids?
considering the entire idea of a cleric is that it's someone that very specifically is granted power from a god (even says so in the PHB).... you're just not a cleric if you don't....but hey, who am i to say you're not. Maybe you collect your power from a general godly pool of powers....maybe for every mortal a god grants power to, there's an extra 1% of power that goes into a piggy bank that goes to the general universe and you're drawing yours from the godly piggy bank-o-power.
but, imo, its like saying you're a goblin when your mom is an ettin and your dad is an ogre....or that you're black when both your parents are white.
sure, call yourself whatever you want, its a fantasy game - if you're at a table with someone who really cares enough to make a big deal out of it, maybe look for another table.
Hey there, i often find the concept worshiping a deity nice but rather overused.
By D&D canon can a cleric gain cleric like powers from a universal force, rather than say... a god? For example by worshiping magic,as a sacred thing believeing it to be the force of all creation and life, is it possible for me to become a cleric of life?
aren't they called druids?
considering the entire idea of a cleric is that it's someone that very specifically is granted power from a god (even says so in the PHB).... you're just not a cleric if you don't....but hey, who am i to say you're not. Maybe you collect your power from a general godly pool of powers....maybe for every mortal a god grants power to, there's an extra 1% of power that goes into a piggy bank that goes to the general universe and you're drawing yours from the godly piggy bank-o-power.
but, imo, its like saying you're a goblin when your mom is an ettin and your dad is an ogre....or that you're black when both your parents are white.
sure, call yourself whatever you want, its a fantasy game - if you're at a table with someone who really cares enough to make a big deal out of it, maybe look for another table.
Or maybe the other person should look for a table if he's such a stick in the mud that he can't accept non-stereotypical class fantasy.
While i somewhat a like the whole concept that clerics are defined by their faith in a god because that's what makes sense to me. In your table (or the DM's at least) you should do whatever gets you most fun. Just see where do divine come from and see if it fits your taste and if not, ask your DM to help you create something that is not a deity but rather the pool of divine energy that gods may be taking from in order to gain their divine power, similar to sorcerers but it works more with faith. So for example, any person would have a strong belief in an idea or something but your character managed to open something different like a hidden thing within creation that allows you to open the gate into divinity/divine power.
An example idea:
What if divinity was more complex than mortals would know it? Some of the gods were mortal once after all but the key to divinity was faith and the gods did managed with Ao, the god of gods to become full deities and be able to use divine power. However, it's not a like a restricted power instead it's something more accessible by those who achieved TRUE faith which is something not easily achievable without the aid of a higher being such a god. Your character may have discovered how to achieve that form of "true faith", by accident or other means, allowing him/her to cast cleric spells.
Hope this helped you a little bit and remember, what's the point of playing a game if you are not enjoying it?
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
When i said a universal force, i tried to convey a form of energy not an entity persay, like... can a cleric worship life? Or magic?
It might be helpful to reimagine deities as Avatars of their portfolios. For the time that they are gods, they are the transcendental sentient embodiment of "life", "magic", or whatever else is within their domain. Worshipping the concept of "life" is synonymous with worshipping the god itself, and if that god should die and its portfolio is adopted by another, your "faith" simply gains a new face, while remaining otherwise unchanged.
The God itself is then akin to a conduit of divine power, rather than its literal source.
You don't need to know their name, or even acknowledge their existence, but if you call out to "Life", you know that the voice that responds is the right one, even if it isn't the same one.
Clerics definitely do not have to worship deities in 5e, confirmed by Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica and Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Here's what XGtE says:
SERVING A PANTHEON, PHILOSOPHY, OR FORCE
The typical cleric is an ordained servant of a particular god and chooses a Divine Domain associated with that deity. The cleric’s magic flows from the god or the god’s sacred realm, and often the cleric bears a holy symbol that represents that divinity.
Some clerics, especially in a world like Eberron, serve a whole pantheon, rather than a single deity. In certain campaigns, a cleric might instead serve a cosmic force, such as life or death, or a philosophy or concept, such as love, peace, or one of the nine alignments. Chapter 1 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide explores options like these, in the section “Gods of Your World.”
Talk with your DM about the divine options available in your campaign, whether they’re gods, pantheons, philosophies, or cosmic forces. Whatever being or thing your cleric ends up serving, choose a Divine Domain that is appropriate for it, and if it doesn’t have a holy symbol, work with your DM to design one.
The cleric’s class features often refer to your deity. If you are devoted to a pantheon, cosmic force, or philosophy, your cleric features still work for you as written. Think of the references to a god as references to the divine thing you serve that gives you your magic.
You don't have to serve or worship a deity as a cleric (or paladin) in D&D 5e. If you want to play an Arcana Cleric that worships the Weave, based on what the books say, that's perfectly fine if your DM is fine with it. If you want to play a Nature Cleric that worships nature, not a specific nature deity, that is also perfectly viable.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Man, there’s a whole bunch of monotheistic thinking going on in here. First, let’s start with the reality that in polytheistic societies it is more common for priests to be religious functionaries that facilitate worship of a people’s pantheon rather than an Apollonian structure most typically poorly understood about Greco-Roman tradition. It also wouldn’t hurt to look into concepts of henotheism and kathenotheism as they would relate to an Apollonian temple model.
The only real answer to the question of “does my cleric need to worship a specific god” is to talk to the DM running the game you’re looking to play a cleric in. As has already been pointed out, the DMG discusses an alternative set of models on handling faith and divine magic, so resorting to “rules as written” is just a trash argument. While the default assumption is one of Apollonian temple culture it is extremely clear that the game developers addressed the limitations of that model on Day One with advice on world building in the DMG. To continue to argue of RAW from the PHB isn’t about providing a useful answer but about proving yourself King of the Nerds over some perceived superior understanding of arcane rules. It’s just sad.
OP, check with your DM and talk with them about what it is you want to play and see if they are willing to accommodate it in their game. If it’s a Forgotten Realms game, assume the default model is in play but ask anyway. If it’s an Eberron game, use that setting’s default but also see if you can deviate from the norm. Good luck.
I really wish they would emphasize more that such things are strictly setting dependent and gave examples because there is no such thing as "one universal D&D world".
Meaning that it is a poorly understood concept going back nearly 50 years because the early authors had no knowledge or understanding of polytheistic practices or even the difference between Apollonian and Dyonesian religions. Like so many other things, those baseline assumptions are normative for settings like Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance but Dark Sun and, eventually, Eberron show us that games don’t have to be this and that your baseline assumption needs to be checked with the rest of the baggage because the setting is what defines the behavior. Dark Sun isn’t exactly new and Eberron itself has some years on it now too. This is, once again, specifically identified in the DMG as a point of consideration. My entire point is that the baseline norm of the default FR setting is filled with nonsense that simply isn’t being thrown out “because it’s always been like this,” the worst excuse for doing anything. If anything, people need to take a moment to actually consider what polytheistic religions actually look like and do and then consider what faith in their game looks like. It isn’t unreasonable for a cleric to devote their worship to a single god. We see aspects of that in Greco-Roman, Khemetic, and even Germanic traditions, even if it is rare. We also know that it very much depends on a bunch of other factors in our world so the same should be considered for a game world.
As for my second point, arguing over RAW on this is just sad because the only real rule is what is dictated by the setting and DM. In DDAL play, a cleric must serve a specific god because Forgotten Realms works that way. Not so in other cannon settings and certainly not so in home games. Acting like the answer can only be one thing to prove your superior understanding of a thing that exists solely for flavor, as it actually has no mechanical impact at all, is just sad. Since no mechanics are involved, “RAW” doesn’t even apply so making such an inane argument isn’t about ensuring good gameplay but about ego. Then again, defaulting to a RAW argument is a normal sign of rules lawyers and that is all ego there. Some of y’all need to relax a bit and just enjoy the flavor more. Flavor just aren’t rules because there’s no structural impact on mechanics. Think of it like pizza. Most ingredients are just flavor while only the crust, sauce, and cheese are required. Unless we are talking about pineapple on pizza. That’s just wrong in all cases.
Hey there, i often find the concept worshiping a deity nice but rather overused.
By D&D canon can a cleric gain cleric like powers from a universal force, rather than say... a god? For example by worshiping magic,as a sacred thing believeing it to be the force of all creation and life, is it possible for me to become a cleric of life?
In ravnica most clerics don't really worship a deity, so it's absolutely possible depending on the setting. I think it's a thing you should ask your DM. The question is wether a "universal force" isn't just like a god, but if it works it works right? Some non god worshipping could go to "the gosts of the ancients" or "the stars" or something like that.
When i said a universal force,i tried to convey a form of energy not an entity persay, like... can a cleric worship life? Or magic?
I have a whole homebrew setting that I'm working on where deities literally don't exist.
I recall a discussion by some of the Dnd designers that i saw a while ago about the love of Philosophy clerics. They don't get their power from any deity but from their beliefs about reality.
Ultimately I think it comes down to what the DM is willing to allow for their world, and what you want to RP. Weather that be worshiping a god, dog, demigod, the sun, or the power of friendship, whatever seems fun to you is probably enough justification for the average game of DND.
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
RAW, a cleric does not need to worship a deity. Crazy, I know, but thems tha rules.
There is some Sage advice out there that states otherwise.
Found this: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2020/09/10/clerics-do-not-need-to-worship-a-god/
"a cleric might instead serve a cosmic force, such as life or death, or a philosophy or concept, such as love, peace, or one of the nine alignments." - Dungeon Master's Guide
And from Xanther's:
Some clerics, especially in a world like Eberron, serve a whole pantheon, rather than a single deity. In certain campaigns, a cleric might instead serve a cosmic force, such as life or death, or a philosophy or concept, such as love, peace, or one of the nine alignments. Chapter 1 of the Dungeon Master's Guide explores options like these, in the section "Gods of Your World."
Lastly, much like we argue over metal and what armor druids are capable of wearing, there is nothing in the "Class Features" of a cleric states that one must have a deity. It is flavor, not a requirement.
Edit: I will also add that in Adventures League, they actually have a "House rule" that specifically requires a cleric to have a deity. If it was already a requirement, then there would be no need of such a rule. It would be redundant.
"Deities. Your character can choose any deity listed in Deities of the Forgotten Realms and Nonhuman Deities tables in the Player’s Handbook or any of those mentioned in the resources listed in Step 1, above. Clerics must worship a single, specific deity but aren’t limited to the Domains recommended for their deity. Other characters are not required to have a deity."
So yeah, purely as RAW, no, but at the same time who cares. If you want to play an officially recognized and sanctioned game of D&D, which makes up the vast minority of all games then you'd be shoehorned into this. Since 99% of games are not officially sanctioned and the most globally recognized game of D&D THRIVES on homebrew via Critical Role? Go nuts.
A lot of the backlash you might get from people who have been in the hobby for a long time or from purists is in the official setting, Forgotten Realms, deities aren't a concept. They are real beings who have known exploits and can walk amongst the people, and have. Their worship gives them power and they need believers to be able to keep up their standing as Gods or be forced into lower statuses and potentially lose their portfolio of powers. So for a person in that universe to be a Cleric, they pray to a God for that power who chooses to impart it or not. For someone to not believe in the Gods in Forgotten Realms, there is a 0% chance canonically they are going to be a Cleric.
Again, however, go nuts. I'd love the idea of a player character exploring the idea of the Cleric class without a deity and how they carry themselves. As long as the roleplay is there and the player isn't using the Cleric class as a vehicle for being ultra random then have at it. I say that because even if you have no deity, I'd(personally, again your tables might be different) expect a Cleric to hold true to certain tenants/beliefs and if they went too far outside of that on a regular basis there would be roleplay based punishments for that character type. Similiar to a Paladin not holding true to their bonds/beliefs of their subclass.
This conversation could go on forever in a lot of different directions. In the end, again, one final time? Go nuts.
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InsiderHey Layomayo, I agree with what several others have said about talking to your DM to work out some of the specifics for the setting they are using. But absolutely your cleric can worship a concept or idea! On our livestream show Silver and Steel we just encountered a collection of clerics who worship community, healing and service instead of a specific God. That's pretty clearly a good place for Life clerics IMHO.
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
That sounds a little more like a warlock, but if you want to play something like that, Something like an oath breaker paladin, maybe ask your DM first, and if your DM says yes, maybe Work on a backstory that shows how this came to be. But for something like magic, like a magic domain, there already is the arcana domain for cleric. That may be what you are looking for
How does that sound like a warlock or an oathbreaker? You're not making a pact with anything, you're worshipping an entity, you're not swearing an oath to anything either, so you can't break it.
I would argue that the concept of life can be a "deity". Maybe it's a non-immanent force that people worship, it might be sentient, or might be driven by instinct and have no personification whatsoever like a traditional god does. It creates life and those that follow it are granted some modiucm of its power, but it has no alignment, personality or goal other than to create life.
working on an apostate cleric
Rogue Shadow, the DM (and occasional) PC with schemes of inventive thinking
I’ve often found it funny that the description in the PHB seems to imply that D&D deities are just as likely to dump powers on a random person, go “do things in my name,” and run off. So a Cleric could find him/herself a cosmic plaything. Such a situation can reasonably make the Cleric not a worshipper of any god, but still an instrument of their will.
aren't they called druids?
considering the entire idea of a cleric is that it's someone that very specifically is granted power from a god (even says so in the PHB).... you're just not a cleric if you don't....but hey, who am i to say you're not. Maybe you collect your power from a general godly pool of powers....maybe for every mortal a god grants power to, there's an extra 1% of power that goes into a piggy bank that goes to the general universe and you're drawing yours from the godly piggy bank-o-power.
but, imo, its like saying you're a goblin when your mom is an ettin and your dad is an ogre....or that you're black when both your parents are white.
sure, call yourself whatever you want, its a fantasy game - if you're at a table with someone who really cares enough to make a big deal out of it, maybe look for another table.
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Or maybe the other person should look for a table if he's such a stick in the mud that he can't accept non-stereotypical class fantasy.
While i somewhat a like the whole concept that clerics are defined by their faith in a god because that's what makes sense to me. In your table (or the DM's at least) you should do whatever gets you most fun. Just see where do divine come from and see if it fits your taste and if not, ask your DM to help you create something that is not a deity but rather the pool of divine energy that gods may be taking from in order to gain their divine power, similar to sorcerers but it works more with faith. So for example, any person would have a strong belief in an idea or something but your character managed to open something different like a hidden thing within creation that allows you to open the gate into divinity/divine power.
An example idea:
What if divinity was more complex than mortals would know it? Some of the gods were mortal once after all but the key to divinity was faith and the gods did managed with Ao, the god of gods to become full deities and be able to use divine power. However, it's not a like a restricted power instead it's something more accessible by those who achieved TRUE faith which is something not easily achievable without the aid of a higher being such a god. Your character may have discovered how to achieve that form of "true faith", by accident or other means, allowing him/her to cast cleric spells.
Hope this helped you a little bit and remember, what's the point of playing a game if you are not enjoying it?
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
It might be helpful to reimagine deities as Avatars of their portfolios. For the time that they are gods, they are the transcendental sentient embodiment of "life", "magic", or whatever else is within their domain. Worshipping the concept of "life" is synonymous with worshipping the god itself, and if that god should die and its portfolio is adopted by another, your "faith" simply gains a new face, while remaining otherwise unchanged.
The God itself is then akin to a conduit of divine power, rather than its literal source.
You don't need to know their name, or even acknowledge their existence, but if you call out to "Life", you know that the voice that responds is the right one, even if it isn't the same one.
Clerics definitely do not have to worship deities in 5e, confirmed by Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica and Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Here's what XGtE says:
You don't have to serve or worship a deity as a cleric (or paladin) in D&D 5e. If you want to play an Arcana Cleric that worships the Weave, based on what the books say, that's perfectly fine if your DM is fine with it. If you want to play a Nature Cleric that worships nature, not a specific nature deity, that is also perfectly viable.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Man, there’s a whole bunch of monotheistic thinking going on in here. First, let’s start with the reality that in polytheistic societies it is more common for priests to be religious functionaries that facilitate worship of a people’s pantheon rather than an Apollonian structure most typically poorly understood about Greco-Roman tradition. It also wouldn’t hurt to look into concepts of henotheism and kathenotheism as they would relate to an Apollonian temple model.
The only real answer to the question of “does my cleric need to worship a specific god” is to talk to the DM running the game you’re looking to play a cleric in. As has already been pointed out, the DMG discusses an alternative set of models on handling faith and divine magic, so resorting to “rules as written” is just a trash argument. While the default assumption is one of Apollonian temple culture it is extremely clear that the game developers addressed the limitations of that model on Day One with advice on world building in the DMG. To continue to argue of RAW from the PHB isn’t about providing a useful answer but about proving yourself King of the Nerds over some perceived superior understanding of arcane rules. It’s just sad.
OP, check with your DM and talk with them about what it is you want to play and see if they are willing to accommodate it in their game. If it’s a Forgotten Realms game, assume the default model is in play but ask anyway. If it’s an Eberron game, use that setting’s default but also see if you can deviate from the norm. Good luck.
What RAW says:
in some campaigns
might
talk to your DM
What people read:
"RAW cleric doesn't have to!"
I really wish they would emphasize more that such things are strictly setting dependent and gave examples because there is no such thing as "one universal D&D world".
Meaning that it is a poorly understood concept going back nearly 50 years because the early authors had no knowledge or understanding of polytheistic practices or even the difference between Apollonian and Dyonesian religions. Like so many other things, those baseline assumptions are normative for settings like Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance but Dark Sun and, eventually, Eberron show us that games don’t have to be this and that your baseline assumption needs to be checked with the rest of the baggage because the setting is what defines the behavior. Dark Sun isn’t exactly new and Eberron itself has some years on it now too. This is, once again, specifically identified in the DMG as a point of consideration. My entire point is that the baseline norm of the default FR setting is filled with nonsense that simply isn’t being thrown out “because it’s always been like this,” the worst excuse for doing anything. If anything, people need to take a moment to actually consider what polytheistic religions actually look like and do and then consider what faith in their game looks like. It isn’t unreasonable for a cleric to devote their worship to a single god. We see aspects of that in Greco-Roman, Khemetic, and even Germanic traditions, even if it is rare. We also know that it very much depends on a bunch of other factors in our world so the same should be considered for a game world.
As for my second point, arguing over RAW on this is just sad because the only real rule is what is dictated by the setting and DM. In DDAL play, a cleric must serve a specific god because Forgotten Realms works that way. Not so in other cannon settings and certainly not so in home games. Acting like the answer can only be one thing to prove your superior understanding of a thing that exists solely for flavor, as it actually has no mechanical impact at all, is just sad. Since no mechanics are involved, “RAW” doesn’t even apply so making such an inane argument isn’t about ensuring good gameplay but about ego. Then again, defaulting to a RAW argument is a normal sign of rules lawyers and that is all ego there. Some of y’all need to relax a bit and just enjoy the flavor more. Flavor just aren’t rules because there’s no structural impact on mechanics. Think of it like pizza. Most ingredients are just flavor while only the crust, sauce, and cheese are required. Unless we are talking about pineapple on pizza. That’s just wrong in all cases.