A friend is playing a battle master fighter and is brand new to the game. He wanted to be a sword and board old fashioned tank style fighter, but also wants to do solid damage. He was asking me about what to do with his bonus action, since currently, he has few options to occupy it. I'm in the same game as a champion fighter, but I went Polearm Master, in large part, to get that bonus action attack. I know there are some maneuvers which will take your bonus action. The feats Shield Master, Polearm Master and Chef also can use a bonus action.
My question is this...what are your fighters using for their bonus action? Is there something I'm missing or do most fighters just go without utilizing their bonus action? It doesn't seem like fighters have good options, outside of PAM and two weapon fighting. If you go sword and shield, then Shield Master may be your best option.
Fighters, Wizards and some Paladins often don’t have much use for their bonus action.
Besides PAM and Shield Master, you could try to optimize for grappling and leverage Tavern Brawler, but it’s suboptimal.
I would recommend invest in good spells that increase damage and require your bonus action — like Hex or Hunters Mark. There are good ways to get it, you could multiclass Warlock (and if you go Hexblade, you can even use Hexblade Curse as well) or the Fey Touched in order to get one of the spells I mentioned, plus having a free use of Misty Step as well. It’s kind better for an Eldritch Knight, but it’s good.
I think your friend ought to focus on increasing his STR if he wants to deal decent damage, until he caps out. Then, he can probably take a better look at how he's playing. Shield master seems like the real obvious choice to attack, shove, then attack again. If he wants to deal good damage, it might not be much of a thing unless he runs into a flame tongue longsword or a sun blade.
I think if he wants to do solid damage as sword-n-board without reliance on items, EK might be a better choice since you're always using your bonus action if you primarily attack with SCAG-trips, which is decent damage always and has access to spellcasting (e.g. spell scrolls! and buffs! and utlity!) I'd talk to him and the DM to see if you can first sell him on the idea of being an EK instead of a BM, and if the DM will allow a subclass change.
My archery Samurai used his bonus action for Fighting Spirit most of the time, and occasionally to activate some magic items that I had.
Some options are Shield Master (I’d absolutely recommend that for a Strength-based shield user) and Telekinetic, both of which give you a push as a bonus action.
Great Weapon Master, Shield Master, and Polearm Master are the most common ways Fighters without a bonus action from a subclass use their bonus actions.
Of the top of my head, he can take PAM and use a spear for extra damage that combos well with Dueling style. Shield Master also give's a useful BA and a fair amount of extra survivability.
Of the top of my head, he can take PAM and use a spear for extra damage that combos well with Dueling style. Shield Master also give's a useful BA and a fair amount of extra survivability.
Yeah, my character is a PAM fighter using spear and shield, right now. He didn't seem to want that.
Many people have suggested shield master for the BA, and I agree, shield master is a great feat for a sword & board character. Just as a note though, RAW you cannot break up extra attack with a bonus action. So you could not attack + BA shield bash + attack. However, if you were hasted you could hasted action attack + BA shield bash + attack, attack.
Many people have suggested shield master for the BA, and I agree, shield master is a great feat for a sword & board character. Just as a note though, RAW you cannot break up extra attack with a bonus action. So you could not attack + BA shield bash + attack. However, if you were hasted you could hasted action attack + BA shield bash + attack, attack.
This is explicitly false.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action. - PHB p189
You can, in every way, attack + ba + attack, regardless of what the ba is, unless the ba says otherwise (or your copy of extra attack does, but the fighter one does not).
Many people have suggested shield master for the BA, and I agree, shield master is a great feat for a sword & board character. Just as a note though, RAW you cannot break up extra attack with a bonus action. So you could not attack + BA shield bash + attack. However, if you were hasted you could hasted action attack + BA shield bash + attack, attack.
This is explicitly false.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action. - PHB p189
You can, in every way, attack + ba + attack, regardless of what the ba is, unless the ba says otherwise (or your copy of extra attack does, but the fighter one does not).
"No general rule allows you to insert a bonus action between attacks in a single action. You can interrupt a multiple attack action with a bonus action/reaction only if the trigger of the bonus action/reaction is an attack, rather than the action"
Shield master feat specifies that if you take the attack action on your turn you can use a bonus action to try and shove a creature within 5 feet of you. Because shield master says "take the attack action", not "make an attack" you cannot interrupt extra attack with the shield master ability.
Oddly enough, in another tweet JC also states that as a DM he allows shield master to be used between attacks. It's a special case he DM rules in his own games.
Many people have suggested shield master for the BA, and I agree, shield master is a great feat for a sword & board character. Just as a note though, RAW you cannot break up extra attack with a bonus action. So you could not attack + BA shield bash + attack. However, if you were hasted you could hasted action attack + BA shield bash + attack, attack.
This is explicitly false.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action. - PHB p189
You can, in every way, attack + ba + attack, regardless of what the ba is, unless the ba says otherwise (or your copy of extra attack does, but the fighter one does not).
"No general rule allows you to insert a bonus action between attacks in a single action. You can interrupt a multiple attack action with a bonus action/reaction only if the trigger of the bonus action/reaction is an attack, rather than the action"
Shield master feat specifies that if you take the attack action on your turn you can use a bonus action to try and shove a creature within 5 feet of you. Because shield master says "take the attack action", not "make an attack" you cannot interrupt extra attack with the shield master ability.
Oddly enough, in another tweet JC also states that as a DM he allows shield master to be used between attacks. It's a special case he DM rules in his own games.
JC's tweets are no longer considered valid rulings. RAW, you can based on the excerpt from the Phb quoted. You can consider it guidance, but if you're playing in something organized, you won't be pushed to recognize his tweets.
JC's tweets are no longer considered valid rulings. RAW, you can based on the excerpt from the Phb quoted. You can consider it guidance, but if you're playing in something organized, you won't be pushed to recognize his tweets.
It is because of Contradictions with things like Shield Bashing that caused the official stance that they no longer are and never officially were official rulings on matters. Where he says he thinks it's could and would allow it in his games but states the RaW or a different line of thought in a different one.
That being said. Shield bashes are strong and often your not actually necessarily going to want to do your bash before all of your attacks anyway. yes there is potential to shove one enemy away and then attack another next to you but the order doesn't actually matter in such cases because you can always attack both and then shove anyway. So the need for this kind of play doesn't really matter much of the time when it comes to something like shield bashing to shove.
And yes I'm aware that many of them want to do the shove before all of their attacks because it can knock prone for advantage. But Sword and Shield fighters don't have the reduction to their to hit to gain as much from getting advantage and they don't get as much from Crit Fishing. It's more a false perception that your getting more out of it than you really are. It's help is small when it comes to actual numbers. Certain very specific magical items and setups not withstanding. But those aren't something we should actually base things around anyway. So this option is actually fairly weak tactically and serves better to knock them down for heavy hitters with things like GWM that do need the advantage to offset their penalty.
I know its a bit off topic but what about a lvl 1 dip into Hexblade for the hex? It's a bonus action, + proficiency bonus to damage rolls and crit 19-20. I know the rest of the lvl 1 dip doesnt really give you anything but its a use for the BA with some decent perks
I know its a bit off topic but what about a lvl 1 dip into Hexblade for the hex? It's a bonus action, + proficiency bonus to damage rolls and crit 19-20. I know the rest of the lvl 1 dip doesnt really give you anything but its a use for the BA with some decent perks
The hexblade-1 dip is one of the best dips in the game for almost any character, fighters included. Mainly because it allows you to use your charisma for your attack and damage rolls, so it's especially good on paladins as they now can just focus on cha and con instead of strength. The same goes for fighters. If you plan ahead, and make charisma your primary stat you can absolutely dip hexblade-1 and make a very powerful build. Even if you don't use that part of hexblade, it is still a decent 1-level dip. You can pick up hex, and armor of agathys and have some additional combat utility, and as you pointed out hexblades curse is very useful on a fighter. You could even go 2 levels into warlock and grab some invocations to get some out of combat utility (mask of many faces is a fantastic invocation).
That being said, staying as a pure fighter will be a stronger build than a multiclass.
I know its a bit off topic but what about a lvl 1 dip into Hexblade for the hex? It's a bonus action, + proficiency bonus to damage rolls and crit 19-20. I know the rest of the lvl 1 dip doesnt really give you anything but its a use for the BA with some decent perks
The hexblade-1 dip is one of the best dips in the game for almost any character, fighters included. Mainly because it allows you to use your charisma for your attack and damage rolls, so it's especially good on paladins as they now can just focus on cha and con instead of strength. The same goes for fighters. If you plan ahead, and make charisma your primary stat you can absolutely dip hexblade-1 and make a very powerful build. Even if you don't use that part of hexblade, it is still a decent 1-level dip. You can pick up hex, and armor of agathys and have some additional combat utility, and as you pointed out hexblades curse is very useful on a fighter. You could even go 2 levels into warlock and grab some invocations to get some out of combat utility (mask of many faces is a fantastic invocation).
That being said, staying as a pure fighter will be a stronger build than a multiclass.
Yeah I can see being straight fighter being stronger, currently playing my first and had debated dipping for hex but I look at the options coming in fighter and cannot for the life of me pick a point to do so as something is always right around the corner. (currently lvl 5)
After level 12 (so your 13th level is in something else) is pretty sure-fire. Indomitable x2 is less than twice as good as Indomitable x1, since Indomitable x1 gets you the ability to always be entitled to know when you fail a save, which is its best use, in general. Plus, you have 3 attacks per Attack action, which is presumably why you stuck to Fighter for so long.
I know its a bit off topic but what about a lvl 1 dip into Hexblade for the hex? It's a bonus action, + proficiency bonus to damage rolls and crit 19-20. I know the rest of the lvl 1 dip doesnt really give you anything but its a use for the BA with some decent perks
The hexblade-1 dip is one of the best dips in the game for almost any character, fighters included. Mainly because it allows you to use your charisma for your attack and damage rolls, so it's especially good on paladins as they now can just focus on cha and con instead of strength. The same goes for fighters. If you plan ahead, and make charisma your primary stat you can absolutely dip hexblade-1 and make a very powerful build. Even if you don't use that part of hexblade, it is still a decent 1-level dip. You can pick up hex, and armor of agathys and have some additional combat utility, and as you pointed out hexblades curse is very useful on a fighter. You could even go 2 levels into warlock and grab some invocations to get some out of combat utility (mask of many faces is a fantastic invocation).
That being said, staying as a pure fighter will be a stronger build than a multiclass.
Yeah I can see being straight fighter being stronger, currently playing my first and had debated dipping for hex but I look at the options coming in fighter and cannot for the life of me pick a point to do so as something is always right around the corner. (currently lvl 5)
You can pick up hex through a few different feats. And fighters often have room for feats. So You can keep your progression but pick up the damage boost if you want to. it's another way of doing things with different benefits.
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A friend is playing a battle master fighter and is brand new to the game. He wanted to be a sword and board old fashioned tank style fighter, but also wants to do solid damage. He was asking me about what to do with his bonus action, since currently, he has few options to occupy it. I'm in the same game as a champion fighter, but I went Polearm Master, in large part, to get that bonus action attack. I know there are some maneuvers which will take your bonus action. The feats Shield Master, Polearm Master and Chef also can use a bonus action.
My question is this...what are your fighters using for their bonus action? Is there something I'm missing or do most fighters just go without utilizing their bonus action? It doesn't seem like fighters have good options, outside of PAM and two weapon fighting. If you go sword and shield, then Shield Master may be your best option.
Any help or thoughts is appreciated.
Fighters, Wizards and some Paladins often don’t have much use for their bonus action.
Besides PAM and Shield Master, you could try to optimize for grappling and leverage Tavern Brawler, but it’s suboptimal.
I would recommend invest in good spells that increase damage and require your bonus action — like Hex or Hunters Mark. There are good ways to get it, you could multiclass Warlock (and if you go Hexblade, you can even use Hexblade Curse as well) or the Fey Touched in order to get one of the spells I mentioned, plus having a free use of Misty Step as well. It’s kind better for an Eldritch Knight, but it’s good.
EDIT: War Cleric is also a very good option.
I think your friend ought to focus on increasing his STR if he wants to deal decent damage, until he caps out. Then, he can probably take a better look at how he's playing. Shield master seems like the real obvious choice to attack, shove, then attack again. If he wants to deal good damage, it might not be much of a thing unless he runs into a flame tongue longsword or a sun blade.
I think if he wants to do solid damage as sword-n-board without reliance on items, EK might be a better choice since you're always using your bonus action if you primarily attack with SCAG-trips, which is decent damage always and has access to spellcasting (e.g. spell scrolls! and buffs! and utlity!) I'd talk to him and the DM to see if you can first sell him on the idea of being an EK instead of a BM, and if the DM will allow a subclass change.
My archery Samurai used his bonus action for Fighting Spirit most of the time, and occasionally to activate some magic items that I had.
Some options are Shield Master (I’d absolutely recommend that for a Strength-based shield user) and Telekinetic, both of which give you a push as a bonus action.
Great Weapon Master, Shield Master, and Polearm Master are the most common ways Fighters without a bonus action from a subclass use their bonus actions.
Of the top of my head, he can take PAM and use a spear for extra damage that combos well with Dueling style. Shield Master also give's a useful BA and a fair amount of extra survivability.
Yeah, my character is a PAM fighter using spear and shield, right now. He didn't seem to want that.
Poisoner and Telekinetic feats are solid option as well to make use of BA.
Many people have suggested shield master for the BA, and I agree, shield master is a great feat for a sword & board character. Just as a note though, RAW you cannot break up extra attack with a bonus action. So you could not attack + BA shield bash + attack. However, if you were hasted you could hasted action attack + BA shield bash + attack, attack.
This is explicitly false.
You can, in every way, attack + ba + attack, regardless of what the ba is, unless the ba says otherwise (or your copy of extra attack does, but the fighter one does not).
As per Jeremy Crawford:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/995024061267767298?s=20
"No general rule allows you to insert a bonus action between attacks in a single action. You can interrupt a multiple attack action with a bonus action/reaction only if the trigger of the bonus action/reaction is an attack, rather than the action"
Shield master feat specifies that if you take the attack action on your turn you can use a bonus action to try and shove a creature within 5 feet of you. Because shield master says "take the attack action", not "make an attack" you cannot interrupt extra attack with the shield master ability.
Oddly enough, in another tweet JC also states that as a DM he allows shield master to be used between attacks. It's a special case he DM rules in his own games.
JC's tweets are no longer considered valid rulings. RAW, you can based on the excerpt from the Phb quoted. You can consider it guidance, but if you're playing in something organized, you won't be pushed to recognize his tweets.
It is because of Contradictions with things like Shield Bashing that caused the official stance that they no longer are and never officially were official rulings on matters. Where he says he thinks it's could and would allow it in his games but states the RaW or a different line of thought in a different one.
That being said. Shield bashes are strong and often your not actually necessarily going to want to do your bash before all of your attacks anyway. yes there is potential to shove one enemy away and then attack another next to you but the order doesn't actually matter in such cases because you can always attack both and then shove anyway. So the need for this kind of play doesn't really matter much of the time when it comes to something like shield bashing to shove.
And yes I'm aware that many of them want to do the shove before all of their attacks because it can knock prone for advantage. But Sword and Shield fighters don't have the reduction to their to hit to gain as much from getting advantage and they don't get as much from Crit Fishing. It's more a false perception that your getting more out of it than you really are. It's help is small when it comes to actual numbers. Certain very specific magical items and setups not withstanding. But those aren't something we should actually base things around anyway. So this option is actually fairly weak tactically and serves better to knock them down for heavy hitters with things like GWM that do need the advantage to offset their penalty.
I know its a bit off topic but what about a lvl 1 dip into Hexblade for the hex? It's a bonus action, + proficiency bonus to damage rolls and crit 19-20. I know the rest of the lvl 1 dip doesnt really give you anything but its a use for the BA with some decent perks
The hexblade-1 dip is one of the best dips in the game for almost any character, fighters included. Mainly because it allows you to use your charisma for your attack and damage rolls, so it's especially good on paladins as they now can just focus on cha and con instead of strength. The same goes for fighters. If you plan ahead, and make charisma your primary stat you can absolutely dip hexblade-1 and make a very powerful build. Even if you don't use that part of hexblade, it is still a decent 1-level dip. You can pick up hex, and armor of agathys and have some additional combat utility, and as you pointed out hexblades curse is very useful on a fighter. You could even go 2 levels into warlock and grab some invocations to get some out of combat utility (mask of many faces is a fantastic invocation).
That being said, staying as a pure fighter will be a stronger build than a multiclass.
Yeah I can see being straight fighter being stronger, currently playing my first and had debated dipping for hex but I look at the options coming in fighter and cannot for the life of me pick a point to do so as something is always right around the corner. (currently lvl 5)
After level 12 (so your 13th level is in something else) is pretty sure-fire. Indomitable x2 is less than twice as good as Indomitable x1, since Indomitable x1 gets you the ability to always be entitled to know when you fail a save, which is its best use, in general. Plus, you have 3 attacks per Attack action, which is presumably why you stuck to Fighter for so long.
You can pick up hex through a few different feats. And fighters often have room for feats. So You can keep your progression but pick up the damage boost if you want to. it's another way of doing things with different benefits.